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Octafish

(55,745 posts)
37. When's the administration going to release its evidence for all that? It's been two months.
Tue Sep 2, 2014, 12:05 PM
Sep 2014
Obama Should Release Ukraine Evidence

With the shoot-down of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 over Ukraine turning a local civil war into a U.S. confrontation with Russia, U.S. intelligence veterans urge President Obama to release what evidence he has about the tragedy and silence the hyperbole.

Ray McGovern
ConsortiumNews, July 29, 2014

EXCERPT...

If You’ve Got the Goods…

If the U.S. has more convincing evidence than what has so far been adduced concerning responsibility for shooting down Flight 17, we believe it would be best to find a way to make that intelligence public – even at the risk of compromising “sources and methods.” Moreover, we suggest you instruct your subordinates not to cheapen U.S. credibility by releasing key information via social media like Twitter and Facebook.

The reputation of the messenger for credibility is also key in this area of “public diplomacy.” As is by now clear to you, in our view Secretary Kerry is more liability than asset in this regard. Similarly, with regard to Director of National Intelligence James Clapper, his March 12, 2013 Congressional testimony under oath to what he later admitted were “clearly erroneous” things regarding NSA collection should disqualify him. Clapper should be kept at far remove from the Flight 17 affair.

What is needed, if you’ve got the goods, is an Interagency Intelligence Assessment – the genre used in the past to lay out the intelligence. We are hearing indirectly from some of our former colleagues that what Secretary Kerry is peddling does not square with the real intelligence. Such was the case late last August, when Kerry created a unique vehicle he called a “Government (not Intelligence) Assessment” blaming, with no verifiable evidence, Bashar al-Assad for the chemical attacks near Damascus, as honest intelligence analysts refused to go along and, instead, held their noses.

We believe you need to seek out honest intelligence analysts now and hear them out. Then, you may be persuaded to take steps to curb the risk that relations with Russia might escalate from “Cold War II” into an armed confrontation. In all candor, we see little reason to believe that Secretary Kerry and your other advisers appreciate the enormity of that danger.

In our most recent (May 4) memorandum to you, Mr. President, we cautioned that if the U.S. wished “to stop a bloody civil war between east and west Ukraine and avert Russian military intervention in eastern Ukraine, you may be able to do so before the violence hurtles completely out of control.” On July 18, you joined the top leaders of Germany, France, and Russia in calling for an immediate ceasefire. Most informed observers believe you have it in your power to get Ukrainian leaders to agree. The longer Kiev continues its offensive against separatists in eastern Ukraine, the more such U.S. statements appear hypocritical.

We reiterate our recommendations of May 4, that you remove the seeds of this confrontation by publicly disavowing any wish to incorporate Ukraine into NATO and that you make it clear that you are prepared to meet personally with Russian President Putin without delay to discuss ways to defuse the crisis and recognize the legitimate interests of the various parties. The suggestion of an early summit got extraordinary resonance in controlled and independent Russian media. Not so in “mainstream” media in the U.S. Nor did we hear back from you.

CONTINUED...

http://consortiumnews.com/2014/07/29/obama-should-release-ukraine-evidence/

PS: Thanks for reminding me. Without evidence, I'm inclined to keep an open mind on matters of war and peace. I still remember when the United States government was telling me that Iraq was loaded with WMDs that were an immediate threat to the United States itself. As the same government had also reported Saddam Hussein had something to do with 9/11, I didn't really believe them at the time.

PPS: Are you willing to volunteer for Ukraine, Tommy_Carcetti? You know, go and fight?

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Return of the Evil Empire [View all] Octafish Sep 2014 OP
Making it safe for the WTO too. L0oniX Sep 2014 #1
Nobel Prize winning economist Joseph Stiglitz agrees with you 100-percent, L0oniX! Octafish Sep 2014 #3
I wonder if Hillary will be advised by Larry Summers. PADemD Sep 2014 #23
Well since she does speaking engagements for Goldman Sachs... L0oniX Sep 2014 #25
We HAVE learned some things over the past few years that once were extremely puzzling sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #31
Free Elections!!! dvduval Sep 2014 #20
The people DID decide in those regions, the coup govt in Kiev launched a military assault on them sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #32
This a must read. Wellstone ruled Sep 2014 #2
Integrity: since money was invented, a concept alien to the capitalist. Octafish Sep 2014 #6
It's in the Genes PeoViejo Sep 2014 #17
That is one dangerous threat to this country, the Bush family. And to other countries as we sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #34
Just about all of that is wrong, Benton D Struckcheon Sep 2014 #4
Sorry, but your sorry little post needs an education. truedelphi Sep 2014 #7
There's a lot of hypotheticals re Ukraine's resources, Benton D Struckcheon Sep 2014 #12
Could you possibly take the time on Tuesday to call up the Goldman Sachs truedelphi Sep 2014 #19
Goldman will do anything for money. Benton D Struckcheon Sep 2014 #21
i love you too Babe truedelphi Sep 2014 #27
No. Benton D Struckcheon Sep 2014 #29
When the world's most powerful imperial nation masterminds a coup, truedelphi Sep 2014 #50
I don't believe we masterminded a coup. Benton D Struckcheon Sep 2014 #60
What coup? nt Tommy_Carcetti Sep 2014 #64
Since you couldn't be bothered to read the material I cited, here it is in a nutshell: truedelphi Sep 2014 #67
Yanukovych left under his own willpower voluntarily. Tommy_Carcetti Sep 2014 #68
Oh so many loved Putin when Russia was the G-8. Octafish Sep 2014 #8
None of that has anything to do with Russia, Benton D Struckcheon Sep 2014 #9
And you could not be more wrong sadly. Just about everything in the OP is absolutely correct. sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #35
Five billion US dollars spent in the Ukraine could be as much as truedelphi Sep 2014 #5
From 2011: Goldman Sachs Is So Desperate To Get Into Ukraine It's Advising The Government For FREE Octafish Sep 2014 #10
Michael Parenti is totally amazing. truedelphi Sep 2014 #74
The $5.1 billion was given TO the Ukrainian government over the course of 22 years (1991 on). pampango Sep 2014 #30
I wonder how this is all going to play out... CJCRANE Sep 2014 #11
Money trumps peace crowd figures they'll survive. Octafish Sep 2014 #18
k&r for exposure. n/t Laelth Sep 2014 #13
It's like the 'Team B' concept never leaves Wall Street on the Potomac. Octafish Sep 2014 #22
K&R.... daleanime Sep 2014 #14
An Original Narrative Octafish Sep 2014 #24
The Rendon Group staged the 2004 Democratic National Convention when then Sen. Obama bobthedrummer Sep 2014 #49
I either forgot that or never knew it. Thank you, bobthedrummer! Octafish Sep 2014 #65
I know all too well how many are affected by events that are covered up to fit in the lie machines bobthedrummer Sep 2014 #71
Resurrecting the old pissing contest. K&R Tierra_y_Libertad Sep 2014 #15
Profound thought, that. Thank you, Tierra y Libertad! This august group agrees with you... Octafish Sep 2014 #39
K&R LongTomH Sep 2014 #16
You are most welcome, LongTomH. War means Money! Octafish Sep 2014 #44
And those IMF loans will need to be paid back at usurious rates requiring austerity to....... LongTomH Sep 2014 #51
Well, Hell I believe would be very Buy-Partisan. Octafish Sep 2014 #52
Counterpunch is one of my favorite websies Quantess Sep 2014 #26
Mine, too. Very little censorship, apart from the assassination of JFK... Octafish Sep 2014 #48
This needs a kick. Cleita Sep 2014 #28
Precisely malaise Sep 2014 #33
What a steaming load of bullshit. Pushes a false narrative while accusing others of doing so. Tommy_Carcetti Sep 2014 #36
When's the administration going to release its evidence for all that? It's been two months. Octafish Sep 2014 #37
You'd think a former spook like McGovern would know that the investigation is in Dutch hands... Tommy_Carcetti Sep 2014 #38
No. He's referring to evidence the President alluded to... Octafish Sep 2014 #40
So you're saying that if I believe Ukraine is unjustly under attack from Russia.... Tommy_Carcetti Sep 2014 #41
No. That's what you said. Octafish Sep 2014 #42
Funny thing, I didn't even mention NATO in the equation. Tommy_Carcetti Sep 2014 #43
So what? I think peace is better than war. Octafish Sep 2014 #45
The vast majority of us here, myself included, heartily agree with your general premise. Tommy_Carcetti Sep 2014 #46
Got it. Thanks. From your post I thought you were denigrating me as a 'Conspiracy Theorist.' Octafish Sep 2014 #47
Always be wary of affirming the consequent. Tommy_Carcetti Sep 2014 #54
Right you are. You don't think the US was behind the 2013 coup in Ukraine? Octafish Sep 2014 #57
No, even if only by the fact that there was no "coup". Tommy_Carcetti Sep 2014 #58
The Media Ignores the CIA in Ukraine Octafish Sep 2014 #62
It's actually very simple to get to the bottom of the "coup" issue. Tommy_Carcetti Sep 2014 #63
I notice that neither of the responses to your post bothered to try to refute your point about davidpdx Sep 2014 #75
I don't think there's any evidence to refute it. Tommy_Carcetti Sep 2014 #76
Do you support the actions of the current Kiev government, which appears to be falling apart, again sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #53
You're assuming that the reason the Ukrainians are fighting is to protect the IMF? Tommy_Carcetti Sep 2014 #55
You do know membership in the IMF is voluntary right? EX500rider Sep 2014 #56
You do know Ukraine already owes IMF $17 Billion? Octafish Sep 2014 #59
Yes most loans have terms it seems and the requirement to be paid back. EX500rider Sep 2014 #61
Apparently it isn't otherwise, Boroshenko, the Chocolate King, (dear alerters, he is known as sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #66
"Show me a success story related to the IMF" EX500rider Sep 2014 #73
I'll go with Joseph Stiglitz over Sebastian Mallaby. Octafish Sep 2014 #77
Octafish, the Stiglitz post is one juicy post! truedelphi Sep 2014 #78
Wow! Explains why Geithner sacrificed homeowners to ''Foam the Runway'' for the Banks. Octafish Sep 2014 #79
Nailed it - TBF Sep 2014 #69
Big KICK hifiguy Sep 2014 #70
K&R JEB Sep 2014 #72
Today's "Putin is blameless and this is all Washington's fault!!" piece... Blue_Tires Sep 2014 #80
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