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In reply to the discussion: If you don't believe there is white privilege in this country... [View all]PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)27. Do you have any idea how paltry affirmative action efforts are and how little impact they’ve had on
whites collectively?
In terms of intent, affirmative action is nothing like old-fashioned or ongoing discrimination against people of color. Discrimination against so-called racial minorities has always been predicated on the belief that whites were more capable than people of color in terms of their abilities, and more deserving of consideration with regard to their rights and place in the nation. So when employers have refused to hire blacks, or have limited them to lower-level positions, this they have done because they view them as being less capable or deserving than whitesas less desirable employees. Likewise, racial profiling is based on pejorative assumptions about black and brown criminality and character. Housing discrimination is rooted in assumptions about folks of color being less desirable as neighbors or tenants.
Affirmative action, on the other hand, does not presume in the reverse that whites are inferior to people of color, or less desirable as workers, students or contractors. In fact, it presumes nothing at all about white abilities, relative to people of color. It merely presumes that whites have been afforded more-than-equal, extra opportunity relative to people of color, and that this arrangement has skewed the opportunity structure for jobs, college slots and contracts. Affirmative action is not predicated on any assumptions about whites, as whites, in terms of our humanity, decency, intelligence or abilities. It is based solely on assumptions about what being white has meant in the larger social structure. It casts judgment upon the social order and its results, not people per se. Although one is free to disagree with the sociological judgment being rendered in this case that the social structure has produced disparities that require a response it is intellectually dishonest and vulgar to compare this presumption about the social structure to the presumption that black people are biologically, culturally or behaviorally inferior to whites.
Additionally, discrimination against people of color has always had the intent of creating and protecting a system of inequality, and maintaining unearned white advantage. Affirmative action does not seek to create a system of unearned black and brown advantage, but merely to shrink unearned white advantage. In other words, unless one presumes there is no difference between policies that maximize inequality and those that seek to minimize it, it is impossible to compare affirmative action to discrimination against people of color, in the past or present.
...
In the end, we really shouldnt think of affirmative action as a matter of racial preference, so much as a preference based on a recognition of what race means, and what racism has meant in American life. It is a preference that takes into consideration the simple and indisputable fact that people of color have not been afforded truly equal opportunity. Whereas old-school discrimination against people of color was (and is) predicated on actual value judgments about the ability, character, and value of black and brown folks, affirmative action is predicated on no personal or group-based judgments whatsoever, but rather, upon the judgment that the social structure has produced inequities that require our attention and redress.
You should read Tim Wise's whole piece on it: http://www.timwise.org/2010/10/affirmative-action-for-dummies-explaining-the-difference-between-oppression-and-opportunity/
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White privilege is like manmade global warming. There are people who don't believe it exists. But
Louisiana1976
Sep 2014
#3
many of the posters who dispute white privilege's existence also doubt global warming
CreekDog
Sep 2014
#6
Actually, in many societies throughout history, not being a slave *was* a relative privilege.
nomorenomore08
Sep 2014
#68
in a society where half or more of the population are slaves, it's a privilege not to be one
CreekDog
Sep 2014
#73
So they'll argue there was no white privilege even when white people literally *owned* black people?
nomorenomore08
Sep 2014
#67
Ahhh.... the Evasion Tactic. Not original nor clever, but still used in the gallery.
LanternWaste
Sep 2014
#10
you're saying that not believing in white privilege is just like being a wife beater?
CreekDog
Sep 2014
#12
So, whites had no additional "privilege" when this type of discrimination was the norm?
PeaceNikki
Sep 2014
#37
It's not about fair treatment. If it were, fair would have extended to POCs.
Gormy Cuss
Sep 2014
#105
Why don't you ask the folks who are twisting the clear meaning of words why they are doing it?
badtoworse
Sep 2014
#81
you resent being asked for more than empathy, yet, where have you even expressed empathy?
CreekDog
Sep 2014
#113
I saw actual signs like this posted in the "oh so good fifties and sixties."
stage left
Sep 2014
#43
Do you accept that white privilege existed at any point in the American experience? eom
1StrongBlackMan
Sep 2014
#51
I accept that racial discrimination and injustice have existed and still do.
badtoworse
Sep 2014
#54
I've never said that discrimination didn't put those affected by it at a disadvantage.
badtoworse
Sep 2014
#57
Seems to me it's more the "privilege deniers" who see this as a zero-sum game.
nomorenomore08
Sep 2014
#85
Maybe if people weren't so damn either/or in their thinking, it wouldn't be such a problem.
nomorenomore08
Sep 2014
#89
"...logic dictates that those not negatively impacted, accrue a systemic benefit"
badtoworse
Sep 2014
#92
Assuming that scenario played out on the scale you suggest, there would be a systemic benefit.
badtoworse
Sep 2014
#100
You strongly disagree based on a hypothetical that has no basis in reality ...
1StrongBlackMan
Sep 2014
#102
You're making my point: Consider Thomas in relation to what you posted in #86
badtoworse
Sep 2014
#134
But the other half of it, is that those *not* disadvantaged, are therefore advantaged by default.
nomorenomore08
Sep 2014
#72
I didn't believe it until I learned to view it objectively, rather than as an accusation.
conservaphobe
Sep 2014
#15
Do you have any idea how paltry affirmative action efforts are and how little impact they’ve had on
PeaceNikki
Sep 2014
#27
Sorry, but it seems futile to debate anyone who would call AA "black privilege".
PeaceNikki
Sep 2014
#36
Not only that but many measures have noted that BY FAR the vast majority of beneficiaries
Number23
Sep 2014
#93
when racism against nonwhites is broad, the privilege associated with being white just as broad
CreekDog
Sep 2014
#38
Yep, for every disadvantage there's a corresponding advantage. It's that simple. n/t
nomorenomore08
Sep 2014
#78
"We really shouldn’t think of affirmative action as a matter of racial preference, so much as a
nomorenomore08
Sep 2014
#77
This is another example of how using the word "privilege" tends to be unhelpful
Nye Bevan
Sep 2014
#41
Cite to a single University/College that has a LOWER admission criteria ...
1StrongBlackMan
Sep 2014
#119
At most the study you cite suggests a racial bias in the verbal part of the test.
Vattel
Sep 2014
#103
AA wasn't a "privilege" it was a redress for centuries of white privilege
noiretextatique
Sep 2014
#66
The usual argument against "white privilege"; I was raised poor too does not add up.
gordianot
Sep 2014
#42
WTF??!! This thread was posted as a way for people to REALLY think about what the recent
Ecumenist
Sep 2014
#55
So if you reject the "privilege" framing, how would *you* frame unequal treatment of the races?
nomorenomore08
Sep 2014
#80
First of creek, does any on the board actually believe "white privilege" does not exist...
madinmaryland
Sep 2014
#75
I don't define "us" as liberals, Democratic Underground does, what's your problem with that?
CreekDog
Sep 2014
#133