General Discussion

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)

64. except that is very easy to argue

Tue Sep 2, 2014, 08:32 PM

Sep 2014

Did, for example, "white privilege" exist when most blacks in America were slaves?

To say that it did, it to make the clearly ridiculous claim - "it is a 'privilege' to not be a slave".

Is that, or is that not absurd? If that is not what is meant by the term white privilege, then why use the clearly understood English word "privilege" to describe the fact of "not being a slave"? It's like you have defined a tail as a leg and keep trying to argue with people who know better that a cow now has five legs.

Privilege simply means = you got something extra, and not that "some other guy got crushed by a boulder" thereby giving you "not-crushed-by-a-boulder privilege".

For some reason I seem to be having a hard time convincing people who haven't been crushed by boulders to give up their privileges.

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If you don't believe there is white privilege in this country... [View all] CreekDog Sep 2014 OP

Good questions! BlueCaliDem Sep 2014 #1

Yes, thank you for that. CreekDog Sep 2014 #106

Oh dear no! JustAnotherGen Sep 2014 #2

White privilege is like manmade global warming. There are people who don't believe it exists. But Louisiana1976 Sep 2014 #3

many of the posters who dispute white privilege's existence also doubt global warming CreekDog Sep 2014 #6

True that AgingAmerican Sep 2014 #135

They both exist ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2014 #49

Something something Oprah something. LeftyMom Sep 2014 #4

If only they would write that much! CreekDog Sep 2014 #5

Here's where your question fails, CreekDog. NYC_SKP Sep 2014 #7

Actually I did consider that very issue CreekDog Sep 2014 #8

Hate to say it, but you might be giving them too much credit. NYC_SKP Sep 2014 #11

except that is very easy to argue hfojvt Sep 2014 #64

Actually, in many societies throughout history, not being a slave *was* a relative privilege. nomorenomore08 Sep 2014 #68

in a society where half or more of the population are slaves, it's a privilege not to be one CreekDog Sep 2014 #73

They admit it existed treestar Sep 2014 #19

So they'll argue there was no white privilege even when white people literally *owned* black people? nomorenomore08 Sep 2014 #67

As well they should be: laughed out of the conversation. NYC_SKP Sep 2014 #69

Have you stopped beating your wife? badtoworse Sep 2014 #9

Ahhh.... the Evasion Tactic. Not original nor clever, but still used in the gallery. LanternWaste Sep 2014 #10

you're saying that not believing in white privilege is just like being a wife beater? CreekDog Sep 2014 #12

We've discussed the issue before. I haven't changed my opinion. badtoworse Sep 2014 #25

So you think it doesn't and never has existed? ever? PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #33

That was racial discrimination and it was wrong. badtoworse Sep 2014 #35

So, whites had no additional "privilege" when this type of discrimination was the norm? PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #37

I don't accept that being treated fairly is a privilege. badtoworse Sep 2014 #39

Denial is not a river in Egypt ... chervilant Sep 2014 #50

It's not about fair treatment. If it were, fair would have extended to POCs. Gormy Cuss Sep 2014 #105

well you don't accept lots of things that are true, what does that prove? CreekDog Sep 2014 #112

Why is this semantic hair-splitting so important to you (and others)? nomorenomore08 Sep 2014 #70

Why don't you ask the folks who are twisting the clear meaning of words why they are doing it? badtoworse Sep 2014 #81

"Whatever they accomplished came at the expense of black people." nomorenomore08 Sep 2014 #84

I'm interested in how you've responded here. gollygee Sep 2014 #88

I believe there is more involved than being asked for empathy... badtoworse Sep 2014 #98

you resent being asked for more than empathy, yet, where have you even expressed empathy? CreekDog Sep 2014 #113

"Whites getting a little bit of help here and there" brush Sep 2014 #160

I took it from the last paragraph of the post I replied to. badtoworse Sep 2014 #161

I'm not talking about reparations . . ., brush Sep 2014 #169

I saw actual signs like this posted in the "oh so good fifties and sixties." stage left Sep 2014 #43

Do you accept that white privilege existed at any point in the American experience? eom 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2014 #51

I accept that racial discrimination and injustice have existed and still do. badtoworse Sep 2014 #54

Funny ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2014 #56

I've never said that discrimination didn't put those affected by it at a disadvantage. badtoworse Sep 2014 #57

That's NOT what I wrote ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2014 #58

You apparently see this as a zero sum game. badtoworse Sep 2014 #61

Seems to me it's more the "privilege deniers" who see this as a zero-sum game. nomorenomore08 Sep 2014 #85

Bingo! ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2014 #87

Maybe if people weren't so damn either/or in their thinking, it wouldn't be such a problem. nomorenomore08 Sep 2014 #89

Or better ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2014 #101

That too. nomorenomore08 Sep 2014 #104

It is a zero sum ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2014 #86

"...logic dictates that those not negatively impacted, accrue a systemic benefit" badtoworse Sep 2014 #92

Let's simply things a bit gollygee Sep 2014 #97

Assuming that scenario played out on the scale you suggest, there would be a systemic benefit. badtoworse Sep 2014 #100

Your "argument" is getting more and more bazaar ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2014 #117

Let's make the scenario more accurate ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2014 #108

I had started with scenarios gollygee Sep 2014 #109

Exactly ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2014 #118

You strongly disagree based on a hypothetical that has no basis in reality ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2014 #102

You're making my point: Consider Thomas in relation to what you posted in #86 badtoworse Sep 2014 #134

I'm sorry; but this ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2014 #146

I'm starting to regret wading into this again badtoworse Sep 2014 #162

I agree ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2014 #163

But the other half of it, is that those *not* disadvantaged, are therefore advantaged by default. nomorenomore08 Sep 2014 #72

See Post 61 badtoworse Sep 2014 #82

No, not really. Starry Messenger Sep 2014 #14

k&r nt steve2470 Sep 2014 #13

Sorry to go off topic, brer cat Sep 2014 #26

oh, glad you enjoy :) steve2470 Sep 2014 #28

Even better when I opened it in it's own page. GeorgeGist Sep 2014 #34

I didn't believe it until I learned to view it objectively, rather than as an accusation. conservaphobe Sep 2014 #15

im not white, but I look white Puzzledtraveller Sep 2014 #40

Very good conservaphobe ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2014 #52

that's helpful. because it isn't an accusation CreekDog Sep 2014 #114

It exists, of course, but so does black privilege. Vattel Sep 2014 #16

black privilege ? please elaborate, thank you kindly nt steve2470 Sep 2014 #18

for example, having lower academic standards for admission to a university Vattel Sep 2014 #20

I'll let the AA posters discuss this with you steve2470 Sep 2014 #22

Holy shit, you call Affirmative Action "Black Privilege"?? PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #23

I am pro affirmative action Vattel Sep 2014 #24

Do you have any idea how paltry affirmative action efforts are and how little impact they�ve had on PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #27

I agree with all of this. Vattel Sep 2014 #30

wow, that's fucked up. PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #31

You could explain to me why I am wrong. Vattel Sep 2014 #32

Sorry, but it seems futile to debate anyone who would call AA "black privilege". PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #36

Because you wish to fight ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2014 #122

I've got an example JustAnotherGen Sep 2014 #125

It was explained to you!!!!!!!!!!! heaven05 Sep 2014 #141

My only concern is that the fight against racism might be Vattel Sep 2014 #149

right heaven05 Sep 2014 #151

Hi Nikki. I think you need to cut Vattel some slack... Anansi1171 Sep 2014 #44

lol, I will "f-bomb" when and where I please, thanks! PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #47

Not only that but many measures have noted that BY FAR the vast majority of beneficiaries Number23 Sep 2014 #93

White women gollygee Sep 2014 #95

True this Number23 JustAnotherGen Sep 2014 #126

when racism against nonwhites is broad, the privilege associated with being white just as broad CreekDog Sep 2014 #38

Yep, for every disadvantage there's a corresponding advantage. It's that simple. n/t nomorenomore08 Sep 2014 #78

"We really shouldn�t think of affirmative action as a matter of racial preference, so much as a nomorenomore08 Sep 2014 #77

So very true and fine retort heaven05 Sep 2014 #140

This is another example of how using the word "privilege" tends to be unhelpful Nye Bevan Sep 2014 #41

unhelpful to whom? CreekDog Sep 2014 #46

... nomorenomore08 Sep 2014 #79

Yeppers... chervilant Sep 2014 #110

Have you considered WHY the term is "unhelpful"? ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2014 #123

No affirmative action program is an example of black privilege. Gormy Cuss Sep 2014 #107

Yes, but refreshingly honest. eom. 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2014 #120

what are your educational credentials? noiretextatique Sep 2014 #65

Cite to a single University/College that has a LOWER admission criteria ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2014 #119

Amen 1Strong JustAnotherGen Sep 2014 #127

No university has race-based standards. But in effect the admission Vattel Sep 2014 #167

Are you stating opinion as fact? ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2014 #172

"Black privilege"? NuclearDem Sep 2014 #21

I think you're misinterpreting "privilege" cyberswede Sep 2014 #59

If I am a black person from a wealthy family Vattel Sep 2014 #96

No gollygee Sep 2014 #99

At most the study you cite suggests a racial bias in the verbal part of the test. Vattel Sep 2014 #103

No, there is no black privilege. Starry Messenger Sep 2014 #63

AA wasn't a "privilege" it was a redress for centuries of white privilege noiretextatique Sep 2014 #66

So how do you define white privilege? Vattel Sep 2014 #90

being able to deny white privilege heaven05 Sep 2014 #142

I don't deny it Vattel Sep 2014 #147

right heaven05 Sep 2014 #148

I take it you don't do too well on reading comprehension tests. Vattel Sep 2014 #150

it's your right to try to insult me heaven05 Sep 2014 #152

How am I supposed to respond to someone who just denies that I believe what Vattel Sep 2014 #155

should I keep responding heaven05 Sep 2014 #164

As I said, I am in favor of affirmative action. Vattel Sep 2014 #166

last gasp, grabbing at straws heaven05 Sep 2014 #139

This is not the place to ask treestar Sep 2014 #17

Oh, we wish. KitSileya Sep 2014 #128

That is a good question, CreekDog. brer cat Sep 2014 #29

I'm a white latino Puzzledtraveller Sep 2014 #45

I guess it is mainly appearance. brer cat Sep 2014 #48

i think the term generally refers to white, not of Hispanic origin CreekDog Sep 2014 #76

The usual argument against "white privilege"; I was raised poor too does not add up. gordianot Sep 2014 #42

Off to the trash heap with this thread. CANDO Sep 2014 #53

WTF??!! This thread was posted as a way for people to REALLY think about what the recent Ecumenist Sep 2014 #55

you aren't the victim in this thread CreekDog Sep 2014 #74

That poster once told a black poster to "get a job" and stop complaining Number23 Sep 2014 #94

So if you reject the "privilege" framing, how would *you* frame unequal treatment of the races? nomorenomore08 Sep 2014 #80

yep, you go on to where you desire to be heaven05 Sep 2014 #145

When Steve Perry left Journey. Dr. Strange Sep 2014 #60

THREAD WIN!!! madinmaryland Sep 2014 #71

Well...who made more money, Steve Perry or the current guy? CreekDog Sep 2014 #116

Steve Augeri replaced Steve Perry rbrnmw Sep 2014 #138

you know whats funny to me Quayblue Sep 2014 #62

First of creek, does any on the board actually believe "white privilege" does not exist... madinmaryland Sep 2014 #75

what? CreekDog Sep 2014 #124

It's not a matter of "belief." 99Forever Sep 2014 #83

If you don't believe in the tooth fairy Odious justice Sep 2014 #91

I have added four people to my IL chervilant Sep 2014 #111

thank you for the compliments CreekDog Sep 2014 #115

Oh look another act if Internet courage. Boom Sound 416 Sep 2014 #121

Just talking about a topic that liberals generally agree on CreekDog Sep 2014 #129

Is that who "us" is Boom Sound 416 Sep 2014 #130

maybe you can explain why you feel so excluded on DU. CreekDog Sep 2014 #131

I don't. Thanks. Boom Sound 416 Sep 2014 #132

I don't define "us" as liberals, Democratic Underground does, what's your problem with that? CreekDog Sep 2014 #133

I've made my points. Boom Sound 416 Sep 2014 #136

meaning you didn't even know that Democratic Underground was for liberals CreekDog Sep 2014 #137

really. You needed to pm this as well? Boom Sound 416 Sep 2014 #154

it was a reply to your last PM to me CreekDog Sep 2014 #156

Sure about that? Boom Sound 416 Sep 2014 #157

glad you're such a stickler for accuracy CreekDog Sep 2014 #158

OMG Boom Sound 416 Sep 2014 #159

Boom. Lex Sep 2014 #143

S'up buddy? Boom Sound 416 Sep 2014 #153

Why do you hate the fact heaven05 Sep 2014 #165

How did you jump to the conclusion Boom Sound 416 Sep 2014 #168

maybe you don't speak for as many people here as you think CreekDog Sep 2014 #170

I haven't argued anything contextually about the thread Boom Sound 416 Sep 2014 #171

*hat tip* Lex Sep 2014 #144