Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

karynnj

(59,498 posts)
67. Idiotic cheap shot
Wed Sep 3, 2014, 10:02 AM
Sep 2014

Do you honestly think that anything the US did could have stopped this murder of a man They already held? Not to mention, can you completely rule out that they killed him the same day they killed Foley? You might remember that there were at least two similar beheadings - Pearl (Pakistan) and Berg (Iraq) - at the time when President Bush had American troops on the ground in two countries.

The stated demand of ISIS was that the US stop bombing them. However, if the US did, what would the result be? At the point that we engaged, they were threatening Baghdad. Not to mention, would you even trust ISIS to keep their word after completely altering American foreign policy or would he likely have been killed some time down the road for some other thing they disliked?

There is likely no one in the country who does not feel repulsed, horrified and angered by the killing. No one - including me - suggested that what had been done was anything more than first baby steps to deal with ISIS. It seems obvious that developing a diplomatic, regional coalition takes time and considerable thought as to how to do it. Obama is doing this AND he is using carefully controlled use of American air power to help the Kurds and Iraqis win back territory, which they will then have the responsibility to fight to retain.

It is true, that any US President could order massive strikes that would happen within days. It is far easier than the political/diplomatic work that Obama is doing now. However, people wanting the US to simply use massive fire power against ISIS - uncoordinated with those in the region wanting to push back ISIS are ignoring that our military leaders have said there is no way to a military victory using just air power. Not to mention, that would very likely have led to the same beheading - one thing controlled almost entirely by ISIS. (After the first rescue attempt failed, it may be that we have not had a viable chance to rescue them.)

These steps ARE the beginning of a thoughtful plan to aid the region in dealing its extremists. Are you implying that a stronger American response - as many very vaguely demanded - would have prevented the killing? No one - including McCain - has called for American combat troops to have been used. In fact, what McCain after sarcastically lambasting President Obama recommends is exactly what Obama is already doing .... and to also arm the moderate Syrians. The problem is that some of his previous "moderate" Syrians have ended up in terrorist groups!

Are you suggesting that had there been a President McCain and had we given powerful weapons to his "vetted" rebels in Syria, ISIS would never have gotten to where it is now? You never know where an option not taken leads you, but it is very hard to believe that this could have worked. It is only the very American "we can fix it" mentality that gives this any weight at all.

Do you honestly think that anything the US did could have stopped this murder of a man They already held? Not to mention, can you completely rule out that they killed him the same day they killed Foley? You might remember that there were at least two similar beheadings - Pearl (Pakistan) and Berg (Iraq) - at the time when President Bush had American troops on the ground in two countries.


It irritates me a bit, but I'm so used to being a "news digger" that I expect it. MADem Sep 2014 #1
I cannot see it as anything but racism. PBO will always be illegimate for not obeying them. freshwest Sep 2014 #20
Oh, hell yes, that too! Yes We Tan! Who's that on the GOLF course? MADem Sep 2014 #21
Good analysis of the last couple of weeks flamingdem Sep 2014 #2
Any announcement made of a successful mission is mostly met with silence. TwilightGardener Sep 2014 #3
Wasn't Obama who said "Assad must go"? former9thward Sep 2014 #13
He did, and that was his fault for listening to the dumbasses in TwilightGardener Sep 2014 #14
Well I agree (I think) with you that we should not intervene in Syria. former9thward Sep 2014 #27
If Assad were to go... YvonneCa Sep 2014 #41
I have been to Syria three times. former9thward Sep 2014 #46
One, of many, skills GWB lacked was... YvonneCa Sep 2014 #47
First of all I don't have alot of original ideas of my own to stop Isis.... wercal Sep 2014 #4
Putin and Assad let them flourish. It was their strategy to defeat the "good" rebels TwilightGardener Sep 2014 #5
It's Putin's fault! CJCRANE Sep 2014 #8
Actually, since Putin has been propping up, supplying, and advising the TwilightGardener Sep 2014 #9
But who supported the rebels in the first place? CJCRANE Sep 2014 #11
Sunni Arabs, mostly. But I noticed a while back that the same hysterical Russian TwilightGardener Sep 2014 #12
But even the official reports say that other rebel groups joined ISIS. CJCRANE Sep 2014 #15
ISIS served the purposes of Assad, Putin, and Iran (friend of Assad). To a point. TwilightGardener Sep 2014 #17
It wasn't even called ISIS back then. CJCRANE Sep 2014 #18
Assorted bad guys, left over from the good old days of AQ in Iraq, who saw TwilightGardener Sep 2014 #19
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Peacetrain Sep 2014 #34
Great post Twilight Gardener. n/t truedelphi Sep 2014 #31
"yet" ?? Rhinodawg Sep 2014 #6
Our chicken sh*t media has a ton of Wellstone ruled Sep 2014 #7
Today's MSM is almost worse than it was in the Bush era. CJCRANE Sep 2014 #10
One reason I don't care that much is that Doctor_J Sep 2014 #16
------ heaven05 Sep 2014 #26
is that good or bad? Doctor_J Sep 2014 #28
They get better ratings Mr.Bill Sep 2014 #22
a thousand recs for this OP. Voice for Peace Sep 2014 #23
Progress And The Middle East Is An Oxymoron cantbeserious Sep 2014 #24
thank you for the sanity heaven05 Sep 2014 #25
DiFi's reaction was not knee-jerk Doctor_J Sep 2014 #30
can't disagree heaven05 Sep 2014 #33
In your post, you claim that "We never had Iraq." ??:?? truedelphi Sep 2014 #29
I know that and it is poor wording - I meant they were not ours to lose - they were independent karynnj Sep 2014 #37
are you really so smitten the you accuse the media of *siding with ISIS*? MisterP Sep 2014 #32
Of course not, where did you get that insane idea? karynnj Sep 2014 #35
And are you so against reality.. that you accuse karyn of that? Cha Sep 2014 #53
I think the President and SOS Kerry... YvonneCa Sep 2014 #36
Agreed karynnj Sep 2014 #38
And... YvonneCa Sep 2014 #39
I agree with you War Horse Sep 2014 #40
And amazingly, it's one of many... YvonneCa Sep 2014 #43
"Who lost Syria?" or "who lost Iraq?" Veilex Sep 2014 #42
You might want to reread the OP... YvonneCa Sep 2014 #44
Just reacting to the title... Veilex Sep 2014 #55
I have done that myself... YvonneCa Sep 2014 #57
No worries... I may have deserved it. At least a little. This time. ;) Veilex Sep 2014 #60
... YvonneCa Sep 2014 #63
That was my point karynnj Sep 2014 #50
Noted... pardon me while I go read Veilex Sep 2014 #56
... YvonneCa Sep 2014 #58
It's not just the media, pundits and politicians carry on cheapdate Sep 2014 #45
Deliberately lying. Side of given issue... YvonneCa Sep 2014 #48
I do think some of the cheap shots are clearly dishonest karynnj Sep 2014 #54
This should be Trending on the Home Page and high on the Great Page. XP'd it to get more K&R's. freshwest Sep 2014 #49
yes tazkcmo Sep 2014 #51
The "media"'s MO has only gotten exponentially worse since I dropped it in 2002.. Thank Cha Sep 2014 #52
Great thread, karynnj! Thank you. n/t YvonneCa Sep 2014 #59
Thank you and others who joined the discussion nt karynnj Sep 2014 #62
You can't be serious... sendero Sep 2014 #61
Excellent post, thank you The Blue Flower Sep 2014 #64
thank you for your spot on perspective hopemountain Sep 2014 #65
I'm sure the parents of Steven Sotloff are very happy with the real progress that has been made. egduj Sep 2014 #66
Idiotic cheap shot karynnj Sep 2014 #67
True BKH70041 Sep 2014 #68
What would you recommend Obama do in the Middle East? karynnj Sep 2014 #69
Something other than what's he's doing now. BKH70041 Sep 2014 #70
Note that the same "he's too weak" was NOT made of GWB when beheadings happened then karynnj Sep 2014 #71
Thanks for explaining "the real world" to him, karyn. "Obama is weak" is a republicon meme Cha Oct 2014 #72
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Is anyone else angry that...»Reply #67