General Discussion

SamG

(535 posts)

27. I'm not sure I agree with your hypothetical example of the...

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 03:38 PM

Apr 2012

difference between second degree and manslaughter.

Particularly where you say:

someone provoking a fight which then ends with them exercising lethal self defense--even if they met the legal definition for self defense, reasonably fearing for their life, they would still be culpable for starting the confrontation which resulted in death, making it manslaughter.

I see that as second degree, NOT manslaughter.

Manslaughter can be a conviction for a drunk driver killing a pedestrian. Unintentional but drunk condition makes it partially intentional,

Manslaughter can be a conviction for a fight that got out of hand, and a single punch killed the victim, particularly if the fight was NOT started by the defendant. The other way around applies here, Zimmerman clearly started the confrontation, AND MOST IMPORTANT, Z used "known deadly force", not just a punch to deck a guy on the ground and cause a head trauma, so I see Z as eligible for a second degree murder charge. Fists never equal guns, and the control of the gun, and the choice to use the gun was in Z's hands, this was no accidental, "it just went off when we were wrestling" defense.

My question to you: can Florida charge TWO LEVELS, murder2 and lesser included, (manslaugter), and just let the jury pick the conviction they feel best suits the facts? Several states allow for lesser includeds. Does FL?

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

54 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Murder in the first, murder in the second, and manslaughter. [View all] TheWraith Apr 2012 OP

Thanks for the info. Smilo Apr 2012 #1

I read that he can't be charged with murder in Florida, because only a grand jury can do that. pnwmom Apr 2012 #2

Not quite. First degree murder cases require grand juries in FL. TheWraith Apr 2012 #4

That makes sense -- there was no evidence of premeditation. n/t pnwmom Apr 2012 #5

Just my opinion, but I do think there was premeditation notadmblnd Apr 2012 #38

Really? Recursion Apr 2012 #47

Yes, I do. notadmblnd Apr 2012 #53

Apparently there is malice though. n/t vaberella Apr 2012 #45

With these definitions in mind, I'm not sure how they could PROVE that he gateley Apr 2012 #9

A lot depends on the evidence that we haven't seen. TheWraith Apr 2012 #15

And he was found on his stomach, I understand, and there is a possibility pnwmom Apr 2012 #17

If the entry wound were in the back lacrew Apr 2012 #36

It was something I heard that the mortician had said, I believe. pnwmom Apr 2012 #46

I going to go out on a limb here lacrew Apr 2012 #48

That's not exactly surprising to me. TheWraith Apr 2012 #51

Yes, if he was found guilty of manslaughter and sentenced to real prison time, I would be relieved. pnwmom Apr 2012 #16

Thanks for the education! gateley Apr 2012 #3

Nope. Florida self defense law has very specific rules about aggressors. TheWraith Apr 2012 #7

Good! I've heard some pretty jaw-dropping stories of people getting off because of that law -- gateley Apr 2012 #10

But I thought this was exactly why the SYG law is so controversial--- CenPhx Apr 2012 #29

Ok, you've cited the statute for where the shooter is the initial aggressor... CenPhx Apr 2012 #34

Correct, it only applies to a person who is NOT the aggressor. TheWraith Apr 2012 #44

We'll take this one chunk at a time. TheWraith Apr 2012 #35

Manslaughter peace frog Apr 2012 #6

Thanks for posting n/t emulatorloo Apr 2012 #8

very helpful information Bluerthanblue Apr 2012 #11

Great post. Thanks. Baitball Blogger Apr 2012 #12

Very interesting. Thanks. nt Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #13

Use of a firearm during a crime ups the ante... Sancho Apr 2012 #14

Yes, though that applies only for felonies. TheWraith Apr 2012 #18

It should be second degree murder anti-alec Apr 2012 #54

I didn't realize killing had such a limited punishment, a likely 10 to 15 years is all for Dragonfli Apr 2012 #19

The criminal justice system is always dependent on what can be proved. TheWraith Apr 2012 #20

K & R! nt riderinthestorm Apr 2012 #21

A former coworker... meeksgeek Apr 2012 #22

I think that is a travesty of justice. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #26

He can not be charged with murder in the first obxhead Apr 2012 #23

If its true that Trayvon was scteaming for help Solomon Apr 2012 #24

Told you. Solomon Apr 2012 #40

Third or manslaughter nadinbrzezinski Apr 2012 #25

I'm not sure I agree with your hypothetical example of the... SamG Apr 2012 #27

Plus, 2nd degree gives teh chance for a plea deal. Go high, plea down. nt DevonRex Apr 2012 #32

Manslaughter has several levels as well. TheWraith Apr 2012 #42

Nice work. rrneck Apr 2012 #28

Was George Zimmerman in his car/truck when he spoke to 911? riverbendviewgal Apr 2012 #30

As I understand it, he was already out of his vehicle when he was told that. TheWraith Apr 2012 #37

murder in the 2nd DevonRex Apr 2012 #31

Book'em danno usrname Apr 2012 #33

Thank-you. My first reaction was to ask that question and here you answered it. robinlynne Apr 2012 #39

manslaughter still ruins your life. Ask any of the EMT or emergency vehicle drivers pasto76 Apr 2012 #41

I highly recommend the OP. onenote Apr 2012 #43

Murder statute of the state of Florida with link steve2470 Apr 2012 #49

SP said on camera, it'd be Second Degree Murder. The video was one of those posted here yesterday. freshwest Apr 2012 #50

Thanks and I read for Murder 2 there has to be malicious intent. n/t vaberella Apr 2012 #52