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sub.theory

(652 posts)

139. This is about blaming the victim

Fri Sep 5, 2014, 09:08 PM

Sep 2014

We are not discussing the particulars of internet security. No one here is against improved security to protect people from the hackers and other scumbags of the world. The issue is people blaming the victims of a disgusting crime. It doesn't matter how good or bad the security of iCloud was or whether it is wise to be putting nude photos into the cloud. That doesn't excuse the crime that was committed and the victimization of these women. Saying that they should have known better is just further victimizing them. That is the OP's point, and a very valid one. Can you see that this isn't about internet security? I don't think you are in favor of these women's victimization, but it really does add to their victimization to criticize them for not being more careful. That is exactly what many, many rape victims are told. That is the point here.

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There is no moral difference between blaming a woman for having her pics stolen, or for being raped. [View all] riqster Sep 2014 OP

Um, most men wouldn't give a damn if their nude selfies were stolen. randome Sep 2014 #1

apparently you don't have a daughter Evergreen Emerald Sep 2014 #3

You presume that every woman in the world feels embarrassed at being seen nude. randome Sep 2014 #38

Amanda Todd. 'Nuff said. LadyHawkAZ Sep 2014 #43

Are you saying that every man and woman should feel the same about their bodies? randome Sep 2014 #45

I think people should maybe aspire to not stealing other people's nude photos LadyHawkAZ Sep 2014 #49

I agree that the thieves are...well, thieves. randome Sep 2014 #53

Granted, LadyHawkAZ Sep 2014 #77

Just so. Consent is key, along with reasonable expectations of security. riqster Sep 2014 #82

Oh, noes! chervilant Sep 2014 #153

Reminds me of schools and airlines eliminating peanuts from meals and snacks eridani Sep 2014 #142

It has nothing to do with how a woman feels about their body. cui bono Sep 2014 #171

It is a crime of theft. No one is disputing that, so far as I can see. randome Sep 2014 #177

What rot. riqster Sep 2014 #4

Sure, I have proof that all men think the same as how I said. randome Sep 2014 #41

Crap. The OP addresses systemic and pervasive sexism and misogyny in our culture riqster Sep 2014 #48

So what did you mean by 'until men are treated the same.'? randome Sep 2014 #75

It means when we have gender equality. riqster Sep 2014 #78

I am a guy and there is a nude picture of me posted on the Internet. upaloopa Sep 2014 #72

In your case, you are OK with it. Cool. riqster Sep 2014 #86

I agree but there are people making money upaloopa Sep 2014 #99

Or, if it IS you, it is done with your knowledge and consent. riqster Sep 2014 #102

I don't know any but I agree upaloopa Sep 2014 #105

I have a lot of friends, of many types. riqster Sep 2014 #110

Like the Wiccan Rede upaloopa Sep 2014 #114

I miss them too. riqster Sep 2014 #116

I would care if my nude selfies were stolen el_bryanto Sep 2014 #23

I work for such a place. No nude selfies, but I scrub other things with diligence. riqster Sep 2014 #89

So what? This is like saying, "most men wouldn't care if a woman raped them." pnwmom Sep 2014 #25

If you insist on rape being the same as stolen pics, then obviously there is no difference. randome Sep 2014 #40

unlikely BuckeyeBrad Sep 2014 #54

It is like blaming people who were robbed Evergreen Emerald Sep 2014 #2

Well said. Thanks. riqster Sep 2014 #5

I disagree, you wouldn't keep anything in your wallet that you can't replace or Drale Sep 2014 #44

"Which we all know" riqster Sep 2014 #85

Or wear your wedding ring? Evergreen Emerald Sep 2014 #124

+100 smirkymonkey Sep 2014 #127

Interesting. Dr. Strange Sep 2014 #6

False construct. riqster Sep 2014 #18

How so? Orrex Sep 2014 #24

Not false: it really happened. Dr. Strange Sep 2014 #37

Let's say "inapplicable" instead, if you'd rather. riqster Sep 2014 #106

Why? Dr. Strange Sep 2014 #111

Bush most certainly does have that right. As do we all. riqster Sep 2014 #115

This is what I posted on my FB wall day before yesterday justiceischeap Sep 2014 #7

Your last point is not at all out of place. riqster Sep 2014 #14

+1,000 freshwest Sep 2014 #62

Yes. +1 cui bono Sep 2014 #179

He JustAnotherGen Sep 2014 #8

Just so. In this case, nuance is used as a means to excuse sexism and misogyny. riqster Sep 2014 #11

I've noticed JustAnotherGen Sep 2014 #13

Well, it was me, back when I was but a young lad in the 60's. riqster Sep 2014 #15

Nothing but a big huge JustAnotherGen Sep 2014 #16

Thanks. riqster Sep 2014 #17

This message was self-deleted by its author Laelth Sep 2014 #50

From me, too, riqster. pnwmom Sep 2014 #27

Ty. riqster Sep 2014 #55

That question ann--- Sep 2014 #30

There are nude pics of me out there JustAnotherGen Sep 2014 #71

Putting yourself in someone else's shoes does not require precise equivalence. riqster Sep 2014 #73

Those were not ann--- Sep 2014 #84

Health care companies use cloud storage. Very common. riqster Sep 2014 #96

And it's awesome JustAnotherGen Sep 2014 #151

I have a similar job. Background checks, they interview the neighbors and go through my trash, etc. riqster Sep 2014 #186

I have A.S. JustAnotherGen Sep 2014 #150

Just read about that condition. Ouch. riqster Sep 2014 #187

So if they do, then they deserve whatever humiliation befalls them? Nice shaming there. nomorenomore08 Sep 2014 #144

No, they don't and ann--- Sep 2014 #180

Rape is not a stolen picture fadedrose Sep 2014 #9

I did say that there was a question of degree. riqster Sep 2014 #10

Sure, in the same way that a getting paper cut is like being decapitated Orrex Sep 2014 #26

Okay then kcr Sep 2014 #42

Even if one is much worse than the other, they're both violations of consent. nomorenomore08 Sep 2014 #145

But that's so broad a category as to be useless Orrex Sep 2014 #157

"...should I comfort her by reminding her that at least none of her pictures were stolen?" nomorenomore08 Sep 2014 #158

Okay Orrex Sep 2014 #159

The crimes are not being conflated. The moralizing,judgemental assholes are. riqster Sep 2014 #165

Yeah, I get that. Orrex Sep 2014 #167

Morality by its nature is difficult to demonstrate in a statistical or scientific manner. riqster Sep 2014 #181

Women who are raped often go on to have consensual sex with someone else. pnwmom Sep 2014 #31

I agree ann--- Sep 2014 #32

The OP does not conflate the crimes. It deals with how amoral jackasses treat the victims of crimes. riqster Sep 2014 #98

Not same thing gollygee Sep 2014 #119

+1. Excellent Rant. Glassunion Sep 2014 #12

Thank you. It's a response to some DUers who answered yesterday's OP on the topic. riqster Sep 2014 #19

I always get crap for it Lee-Lee Sep 2014 #20

I understand what you're saying. riqster Sep 2014 #21

Apple's head has now officially acknowledged that Apple was at fault, not these women. pnwmom Sep 2014 #33

It's not that simple Lee-Lee Sep 2014 #35

I think you might not have an adequate understanding of Internet security. riqster Sep 2014 #59

I think you may not have an adequate understand of Lee-Lee Sep 2014 #74

You are still blaming the victim by using the old 100% fallacy. riqster Sep 2014 #76

You're logic is pretty full of holes Lee-Lee Sep 2014 #79

Again, kindly note this key fact: APPLE HAS ASSUMED LIABILITY AND ACCEPTED BLAME. riqster Sep 2014 #80

I've not once blamed the women Lee-Lee Sep 2014 #87

When you assign partial liability (as you have repeatedly), it is blaming. riqster Sep 2014 #91

Does not negate the fact that this was a real possibility in the first place. Egnever Sep 2014 #90

Still victim blaming. See my post on the 100% fallacy. riqster Sep 2014 #93

I find your arguments so ridiculous Egnever Sep 2014 #95

Do you lock your doors? mythology Sep 2014 #104

Ah, but how often do we we see DUers trashing victims of financial hacks? Rarely. riqster Sep 2014 #107

In your mind Egnever Sep 2014 #112

No need. Just peruse this thread. riqster Sep 2014 #118

Very good point. nt F4lconF16 Sep 2014 #141

Your same reasoning in the case of rape would be like those people pnwmom Sep 2014 #81

So your advise to young women is they should go walking in dangerous neighborhoods Egnever Sep 2014 #94

What a ridiculous response. Read the OP. riqster Sep 2014 #108

The OP is ridiculous as well. Egnever Sep 2014 #109

Bollocks. Is that the best counterargument you can muster? riqster Sep 2014 #113

"How could you be so stupid?" sub.theory Sep 2014 #140

"Why is it always so different with women and sex crime?" nomorenomore08 Sep 2014 #147

No, the point is that the onus of responsibility is put on the victim and not the perpetrator. nomorenomore08 Sep 2014 #146

What utter nonsense Egnever Sep 2014 #83

Your clearly a woman hating mysoginist Lee-Lee Sep 2014 #88

Clearly Egnever Sep 2014 #92

And so the providers are allowed to lie and cheat, riqster Sep 2014 #125

Why do you keep assigning blame to the consumer? I Egnever Sep 2014 #170

Internet firms promise consumers security. Consumers pay for this service.Providers fail to deliver. riqster Sep 2014 #182

Well maybe that is because Egnever Sep 2014 #184

That is double-standard crap, and inaccurate to boot. riqster Sep 2014 #185

Just to make it clear, Apple explicitly denies responsibility for security in the ToS. sir pball Sep 2014 #173

"only a question of degree" - well yes, but the "degree" is "orders of magnitude". nt. Warren Stupidity Sep 2014 #22

That's one way to rationalize it... LanternWaste Sep 2014 #34

So you don't think there is a huge difference between stealing a nude picture and rape? Warren Stupidity Sep 2014 #69

Clarification time: I am not conflating the crimes. riqster Sep 2014 #120

No the moral failings are not equivalent because the damage to the victim is not remotely equivalent Warren Stupidity Sep 2014 #129

You are entitled to that opinion. riqster Sep 2014 #131

Except ann--- Sep 2014 #28

Not surprised you don't get it. NuclearDem Sep 2014 #46

thats like saying because you agreed to have sex with one man, another man can come by and rape you La Lioness Priyanka Sep 2014 #52

No, it's not ann--- Sep 2014 #56

you are deliberately conflating issues. no one saying that having your naked pics distrubuted La Lioness Priyanka Sep 2014 #58

Thanks for that post. riqster Sep 2014 #60

Maybe you need to ann--- Sep 2014 #63

Try reading the entire sentence. riqster Sep 2014 #65

But, there IS a difference ann--- Sep 2014 #68

Bull-fucking-shit. The person did not post them for public display. riqster Sep 2014 #70

yes, you are. saying the underlying principle between reactions to two events are similar La Lioness Priyanka Sep 2014 #66

It is not even ann--- Sep 2014 #67

The photographs were not willingly posted. They were stolen. riqster Sep 2014 #188

The issue is consent. Mz Pip Sep 2014 #29

Consent is key, agreed. riqster Sep 2014 #64

Because people who behave in ways they don't approve of are just *asking* to be victimized. nomorenomore08 Sep 2014 #148

The law will presumably deal with this. WinkyDink Sep 2014 #36

K & R so frustrating that this has to be repeated over and over on DU of all places, frustrating and AuntPatsy Sep 2014 #39

yes, while the degree of harm to the victim is different the underlying principle of victim blaming La Lioness Priyanka Sep 2014 #47

Well, in this case, it also includes prude shaming. boston bean Sep 2014 #97

i dont think thats prude shaming, because i am not sure that is even really a thing La Lioness Priyanka Sep 2014 #100

I do think it exists. boston bean Sep 2014 #121

Advanced search isn't turning up the post calling you a prude for objecting LadyHawkAZ Sep 2014 #143

Wha?? boston bean Sep 2014 #154

as I thought. and no, when you make a claim like that I will ask for a link LadyHawkAZ Sep 2014 #166

Where did I say in this instance anyone called anyone a prude. boston bean Sep 2014 #174

so no one actually did what you claimed they did. thanks. n/t LadyHawkAZ Sep 2014 #176

Actually they do. boston bean Sep 2014 #178

The point is that victim blaming is victim blaming BuckeyeBrad Sep 2014 #51

Just so. Thanks. riqster Sep 2014 #57

Nothing to add but a thanks for writing this. nt. NCTraveler Sep 2014 #61

Really surprised anyone is disagreeing with you abelenkpe Sep 2014 #101

Yah hey, I hear you. riqster Sep 2014 #103

But using women's bodies without their consent is only wrong when it's LeftyMom Sep 2014 #117

Nice post. riqster Sep 2014 #122

Most people are just saying it's not a good idea to take nude pictures davidn3600 Sep 2014 #123

Sigh. How many times do I have to say this: the solutions were secure. riqster Sep 2014 #126

"Secure"? You ARE aware this was on the Internet, right? WinkyDink Sep 2014 #162

And security varies widely on the Internet. riqster Sep 2014 #189

In other words: "She shouldn't have worn that skirt." sub.theory Sep 2014 #135

That's not what im saying at all davidn3600 Sep 2014 #136

Your "solution" is for women to not express themselves in a manner that might "provoke" a man. riqster Sep 2014 #138

This is about blaming the victim sub.theory Sep 2014 #139

The point is that you're focusing entirely on the victims' actions and not the perpetrators. nomorenomore08 Sep 2014 #149

Who's saying the hacker isn't to blame? davidn3600 Sep 2014 #155

I'm sure at least a few folks will think twice now before they "upload [their] nude pictures to nomorenomore08 Sep 2014 #156

You are wrong. It is to say, take what damn photos you want; who GAF? Just BE AWARE and NOT WinkyDink Sep 2014 #163

You're not getting it sub.theory Sep 2014 #172

What if a man's nude pics are stolen? phil89 Sep 2014 #128

Blaming him for both? Of course it's morally equivalent. riqster Sep 2014 #130

So it's worse to blame a woman phil89 Sep 2014 #132

Re-take your logic 101 class. I know that trick. riqster Sep 2014 #137

Somebody better tell Michael Brown and Trayvon Martin they weren't oppressed. nt msanthrope Sep 2014 #152

Point. I shall edit. riqster Sep 2014 #160

What about Anthony Weiner? Was he 'raped' when his selfie was revealed? randome Sep 2014 #168

Once again: the OP does not conflate the crimes. Just the assholishness that goes with judging. riqster Sep 2014 #169

It's always the women's fault, it goes back to Eve giving Adam a bite of the apple. dem in texas Sep 2014 #133

I agree with you sub.theory Sep 2014 #134

I think there is a difference frustrated_lefty Sep 2014 #161

Exactly - storing sensitive data online should be a known risk, regardless of what the data is. sir pball Sep 2014 #175

This is incorrect: riqster Sep 2014 #190

Blaming people for crimes inflicted on them by another person or persons MineralMan Sep 2014 #164

Just so. riqster Sep 2014 #183