Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
 

ieoeja

(9,748 posts)
106. Okay, let's include that.
Mon Sep 8, 2014, 03:18 PM
Sep 2014

Sometime after the African slave trade ended, the South found itself in serious trouble. Contrary to your "slave is too valuable" misreading of history, the South was actually killing slaves faster than they could be replaced. During her pregnancy, a slave will have to consume more than the they produce. And child slaves are pretty useless for awhile making them not cost effective. So outside Kentucky and Rhode Island, where they made slave breeding a major industry, there wasn't much effort to replace slaves domesticly.

Plenty of attempts were made non-domesticly. Cuba was invaded twice. Baja California was captured. Sonora was invaded (at which point Baja was lost). Guatemala was conquered. Then invaded a second time after being kicked out after the first time.

Every one of those adventures were launched for the specific purpose of obtaining replacement slaves.

Here in the good ol' US of A, laws were passed to slow the loss of slaves. This included laws making it illegal to free a slave, even if the owner wanted. Up to that point a lot of free Blacks would purchase and free relatives as often as they could. When it became illegal to free them, they continued purchasing friends and relatives. Legally, they remained slaves since they could not legally free them. In reality, of course, they were just friends and relatives.

The worst long standing result of benevolent slavery (as the above legal fiction became known) is that it introduces nonsensical data into the topic that lets propagandists trick people into believing that "Blacks owned slaves" is a real issue when it is complete bullshit.

------------------------------------

For the record: the first of my name was brought over as a "White Trash" indentured servant from Ireland in the 1740s. Five years later he was free and a sharecropper on his former master's plantation. Awhile later he owned his own place and, from time to time**, his own slave(s).

None of his children ever had to be a servant. Hopelessness is one glaringly big difference between slave and indentured servant.

That and the fact that he would be free someday meant the master better not treat his ass too bad or a day of reckoning was coming when the indenture ended.

------------------------------------

** If you're ever read that "most southerners did not own slaves" a period does not correctly belong after that phrase. It should end "at any given moment". Because the South wasn't just a slave culture. It was a Norman/Celtic military culture (which is why they were so confident they could kick the Anglo-Saxon*** North's ass in the Civil War). And in military cultures:

Land Owners call the shots.

Warriors are worshipped.

Craftsmen are respected.

Freed men are necessary for the food they produce.

Laborers who work for another man are the lowest life form on the face of the Earth. No man who would willingly do so and must therefore be beaten into submission.

So a small family farm like ours never owned generations of slaves. But roughly every other census showed them owning slaves. Because sometimes who needed some help. And in the old South, few men were willing to work for pay. So you had to buy a slave then sell him/her when the job was done.

That, or they just lied on the census since more slaves meant more political power. Too many people today would have given slave owners even more power because they think the 3/5th rule was meant to demean the slave (like anyone gave two shits how slaves felt) instead of a compromise between abolitionists who wanted a 0/5th rule since the extra political power was obviously going to the slave owners, not the slaves, and the slavers who wanted the 5/5th rule that many DUers think would have been just peachy keen ignoring the fact that it would have given slave owners more power. Many DUers clearly think with their hearts on this subject, not their heads.

-----------------------------------

*** Anglo-Saxon's were reviled in the Confederate States of America. In fact, there were at least two proposals (one possibly facetious) to replace the dwindling African slave population with Anglo-Saxons.


Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Like the DORK critic that questioned the validity of ' Twelve Years a Slave ' orpupilofnature57 Sep 2014 #1
Thank you Jonathan Chait! sheshe2 Sep 2014 #2
WOW rbrnmw Sep 2014 #3
I'm surprised with the Economist. I expect a more European take applegrove Sep 2014 #4
I am sickened rbrnmw Sep 2014 #5
The Economist has long been a racist RW trash magazine malaise Sep 2014 #31
I have subscribed to The Economist for many years B_Mann Sep 2014 #65
We ditched it decades ago malaise Sep 2014 #66
Thank you. What do you think of The Financial Times? B_Mann Sep 2014 #68
Not a fan and have always been a very rare reader malaise Sep 2014 #70
We have time warped. Racism, sexism... the hate that gets spewed these days is disheartening. n/t cui bono Sep 2014 #12
I know they are here too rbrnmw Sep 2014 #16
I think they would like us to go back to the 1860s. logosoco Sep 2014 #23
that is scary but true rbrnmw Sep 2014 #24
Nah, you had to actually feed, clothe and house the slaves. jeff47 Sep 2014 #67
Wage slavery is cheaper Prophet 451 Sep 2014 #116
Yes, you had not only an initial investment, but ongoing (if minimal) maintenance costs Jackpine Radical Sep 2014 #126
Quite so Prophet 451 Sep 2014 #128
The funny thing is there were plenty of slaves we would consider white. Exultant Democracy Sep 2014 #6
I don't like to hear the thinking of slave owners. Read slave narratives in University applegrove Sep 2014 #7
Thomas Jefferson's 4 children by Sally Hemings were legally white, but slaves carolinayellowdog Sep 2014 #19
I wasn't aware of the law making octoroons legally white, thanks for the info Exultant Democracy Sep 2014 #72
It was succeeded by the One Drop Rule and the Pocahontas Clause carolinayellowdog Sep 2014 #73
Thanks for this information! JustAnotherGen Sep 2014 #76
Perfect response sadly which was wasted on a (won't say it) because people like that are AuntPatsy Sep 2014 #8
I don't know quite what to say gollygee Sep 2014 #9
Never underestimate the ongoing Neo-Confederate warping of history. Paladin Sep 2014 #14
Yeah and I've heard that gollygee Sep 2014 #15
There are no limits nor depths to the harmful delusions of CSA apologists. And DU isn't immune. Paladin Sep 2014 #17
they seem to have that view down thread rbrnmw Sep 2014 #30
I'm not a bit surprised, unfortunately. (nt) Paladin Sep 2014 #32
I always hope gollygee Sep 2014 #79
that's been an ongoing heaven05 Sep 2014 #99
Bundy said that very statement heaven05 Sep 2014 #97
I wonder what their review of "Diary of a Young Girl" was? Glassunion Sep 2014 #10
I wish I could find a link to the book itself BainsBane Sep 2014 #11
All slave ownership was evil. Nye Bevan Sep 2014 #13
Confederate apologists were given free rein to write revisionist history Cirque du So-What Sep 2014 #18
After the war ended, the southern elite class, Dawson Leery Sep 2014 #64
That's a pretty singularly ill-advised review... Spider Jerusalem Sep 2014 #20
smh rbrnmw Sep 2014 #25
another sad attempt heaven05 Sep 2014 #100
History is indeed a messy, and often muddled, subject. AverageJoe90 Sep 2014 #119
Historical revisionism. Behind the Aegis Sep 2014 #21
Well yes, because we have a black President, therefore the legacy of slavery is long gone YoungDemCA Sep 2014 #71
Thank you for this JustAnotherGen Sep 2014 #110
There were black people that owned slaves. alphafemale Sep 2014 #22
a poor white person was still free rbrnmw Sep 2014 #26
Free to starve or to be murdered with impunity alphafemale Sep 2014 #27
I am not going to entertain you rbrnmw Sep 2014 #28
That is not actually what I am saying. alphafemale Sep 2014 #29
no you said slaves were fed everyday rbrnmw Sep 2014 #33
Actually, I got this history lesson from black people. alphafemale Sep 2014 #37
"I got this history lesson from black people." Number23 Sep 2014 #87
oh lord, where am I again? LOL randys1 Sep 2014 #91
That is precisely what you're saying. Kindly massas and grateful, happy slaves=Hail Dixieland. Paladin Sep 2014 #34
Dontcha know White Privilege never existed rbrnmw Sep 2014 #36
Some people on this site are unbelievable Cad Bane Sep 2014 #42
I don't understand it either rbrnmw Sep 2014 #44
They always have the "friend" in their back pocket. Cad Bane Sep 2014 #58
it's the race card they say black folks play rbrnmw Sep 2014 #59
Let me take it to the next level JustAnotherGen Sep 2014 #111
Exactly rbrnmw Sep 2014 #115
Might as well get used to it. Paladin Sep 2014 #54
this is true sadly rbrnmw Sep 2014 #56
Wow! Really? I've not seen this before. icymist Sep 2014 #74
The contents of this thread ought to provide you with the evidence you need. (nt) Paladin Sep 2014 #75
Yeah, ol' Massa gave 'em roast beef every day and tucked them Sheldon Cooper Sep 2014 #80
I have to think that, given the opportunity, black slaves would have changed places Maedhros Sep 2014 #107
Just knowing gollygee Sep 2014 #112
Yes TexasMommaWithAHat Sep 2014 #114
free blacks who owned slaves were very rare treestar Sep 2014 #35
But it DID happen. A free discussion has to include that. alphafemale Sep 2014 #38
A free discussion has to give time to a minuscule phenomenon KitSileya Sep 2014 #39
It was very common. And I learned this history from black friends. alphafemale Sep 2014 #40
yes the ole black friends defense rbrnmw Sep 2014 #41
Stick with your white very special After School Special view of history. alphafemale Sep 2014 #46
I've studied Black History rbrnmw Sep 2014 #49
Ah, but history is not a fixed thing. KittyWampus Sep 2014 #81
I've read Slave Narratives on top of many many books rbrnmw Sep 2014 #83
What I see is someone who wants to discuss how bad whites had it alongside a discussion on slavery. KitSileya Sep 2014 #45
Slaves were made to feel above poor "White Trash" alphafemale Sep 2014 #48
you are something else rbrnmw Sep 2014 #50
GTFOH with this bullshit! Cad Bane Sep 2014 #51
no the black friends taught them rbrnmw Sep 2014 #53
This is what DU has become. KitSileya Sep 2014 #55
this racist nonsense shouldn't be tolerated rbrnmw Sep 2014 #57
That is very true. KitSileya Sep 2014 #61
yep rbrnmw Sep 2014 #63
Yeah - I'm not alerting on this nonsense JustAnotherGen Sep 2014 #78
I read that the other day heaven05 Sep 2014 #103
Poor white resenting slaves, and slave feeling better than poor whites (or any whites) KitSileya Sep 2014 #52
This message was self-deleted by its author Go Vols Sep 2014 #85
not negroes heaven05 Sep 2014 #104
MIRT!! Calling MIRT!! PLEASE!! Number23 Sep 2014 #88
Gone With the Wind isn't really a historical document. yardwork Sep 2014 #95
I wish I could recommend this comment. justiceischeap Sep 2014 #113
It sounds like gollygee Sep 2014 #96
No more and no less than a free discussion regarding the standard has to include the... LanternWaste Sep 2014 #98
And a blind squirrel finds a nut now and again tazkcmo Sep 2014 #101
Okay, let's include that. ieoeja Sep 2014 #106
It's an interesting post, but I'm afraid I'll have to correct you on one thing: AverageJoe90 Sep 2014 #120
The Scots-Irish were a secondary power-group. But the aristocracy was largely Norman, not Anglo. ieoeja Sep 2014 #124
My Response. AverageJoe90 Sep 2014 #129
Regardless of the color of slave masters, slavery is wrong. The percentage of black owned slaves.... marble falls Sep 2014 #122
If you read my post before yours, you will note that a lot of those Black slave "masters" were not. ieoeja Sep 2014 #125
Jesus Christ on a crutch Number23 Sep 2014 #86
Times ten thousand JustAnotherGen Sep 2014 #90
those whites you heaven05 Sep 2014 #102
Absolutely. Remember all the freed slaves begging to be taken back into slavery? Tierra_y_Libertad Sep 2014 #43
Rothschilds have an ownership stake in The Economist Octafish Sep 2014 #47
Yeah. OK It all as black and white as you imagine. alphafemale Sep 2014 #60
you are on the wrong side of this discussion rbrnmw Sep 2014 #62
This isn't Neo-Confederate Underground YoungDemCA Sep 2014 #69
Is it your opinion that the movies exaggerated the evils of slavery?Are you suggesting that slavery Douglas Carpenter Sep 2014 #77
this nation has lost it's collective mind. spanone Sep 2014 #82
yep rbrnmw Sep 2014 #84
You ain't lying. DU lost its mind a while ago and the main way you could tell was the stream of Number23 Sep 2014 #89
I am surprised any of you remain...it is so hostile here to minorities and Women randys1 Sep 2014 #93
I'm surprised any of us remain too. Number23 Sep 2014 #108
Yes, liberal democrats are dying out...USA is in for some real sad days ahead randys1 Sep 2014 #92
Yep heaven05 Sep 2014 #105
Duhhhhh shenmue Sep 2014 #94
, blkmusclmachine Sep 2014 #109
That's what happens when everything becomes political Prophet 451 Sep 2014 #117
History is often a complicated subject.....But, truthfully, this reviewer missed the point. AverageJoe90 Sep 2014 #118
"History is often a complicated subject" So true. I mean heck slavery has cstanleytech Sep 2014 #121
Nothing generates more conservative anger than information that contradicts their fairy tales. Todays_Illusion Sep 2014 #123
"this is not history; it is advocacy" one could argue that all history is advocacy unblock Sep 2014 #127
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Worst Book Review Ever Cr...»Reply #106