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JohnnyRingo

(20,863 posts)
38. I believe there's a double standard.
Tue Sep 9, 2014, 12:21 PM
Sep 2014

When a man attacks a woman it's a case of a big bad man wailing on a poor defenseless little girl, but when the roles are reversed, men are asked what they did to provoke her. I know because I lived it with my 1st wife over 35 years ago.

First, I'll make an admission that no woman can offer after a domestic violence incident, I did indeed provoke her ire. Though we were both unfaithful throughout our relationship, she was what a psychologist later told me was a "weapon grabber" when she felt scorned. Perhaps it was to augment her petite stature, but she would always grab an equalizer when she felt a rampage coming on.

Her favored weapon, at least in the beginning, was the old black telephone people had in those days. Though she seldom made contact, I recall many a time when that big chunk of plastic went sailing past my head and hit the wall behind me. The phone company had to come to the house so often to reinstall the phone they eventually added a 30 foot cord. The phone guy, who knew what was happening, joked with me that I better watch myself now that the cord wouldn't slow the phone's travel across the living room. It would be years before we could afford a safer Princess phone.

Another time when I arrived home late from the night shift, she came at me with a large Crescent Wrench. Swinging wildly, she managed to take a chunk out of my arm that left a scar that remains nearly 40 years later. In that case I disarmed her but she turned back to my toolbox and grabbed the claw hammer. As she raised it above her head I pushed her backward causing her to trip over the toolbox and breaking her arm. The fight was over at that point and we made the trip to the ER. Close friends who knew us both understood what had happened, but I was scorned by so many others who assumed I was the the big bad biker who injured this little 5'5" 110lb angel for no good reason.

Another time she laid me up for two weeks when she grabbed a .22 rifle from the gun rack and swung it Davy Crockett style down across my knees as I sat on the couch. Though I don't recall why I didn't see it coming, the rifle broke in half at the stock and I was on crutches for the rest of the month. Friends laughingly ribbed me with Alamo jokes for months because of that. Once when a neighbor called the police they were defusing the situation when she struck me in the back of the head right in front of him. The cop informed her that he witnessed that and could press charges... if he wanted to.

During our 17 years together there were so many more incidents that I've forgotten many. At a recent family gathering where we both were present, our oldest son brought up the story of how she sprayed me in the face with a can of Raid. He laughed as he explained how it frightened him so that he behaved himself for weeks out of fear of what she could do to him. I still don't remember that particular event, but the point is that it wasn't related as a woman on man crime, but a bit of anecdotal family history. I could go on with many more incidents, but you get the idea.

My 1st and I are good friends to this day and share 7 wonderful grandchildren. We maintain communication and do our best to keep the family together, but in our case she wasn't seen as abusive or dangerous, she just had a lot of "spirit" or "passion". No one would ever write an article in DU asking why men stay in such a volatile relationship nor would anyone claim that this is an epidemic where women grab a dangerous object to even the odds in an argument. Instead, society demands that men should avoid making the little woman so angry that she causes bodily injury.

I want to mention again that I still don't harbor any ill will toward her. These things happened in part because I provoked her with my actions and she did horrible things as well, but I never raised a hand to strike her. Through it all we still loved one another and raised three boys who are non-violent adults. Though at 62 she still harmlessly threatens our 6'5" son with an ass kicking now and then, no one considers her a domineering psychopath. Had the roles in the above narrative been reversed, she'd be a no good woman beater deserving of a lengthy prison sentence and my forgiveness considered a chronic fault. That's the double standard.

I don't expect sympathy or advice, I just don't like that men are portrayed as the root of all evil in cases of DV here. Some read like a newsletter from the Men Haters Club with provocative titles slanted toward female victims. They aren't articles exploring the damage caused by domestic violence so much as a one sided demand that men answer for the crimes they commit toward women. I understand that the bulk of these posts come from people in the HoF group, but they conveniently only tell half the story from a perspective that men are bullies and women are physically helpless against them. They obviously never met my ex.

DV is a serious social problem that deserves more than a one size fits all solution of "protecting the women" against abusive men like Ray Rice. Near here a man went home earlier this week to find his children shot to death and his wife dead with the gun next to her body. Cases like that are indeed rare, but men do not have a monopoly on violence in the home. Unfortunately, society in general considers gender as the difference between a simple marital spat and a hate crime. If a woman strikes a man in an elevator the likely response from onlookers would be "feisty one, isn't she?".

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

+1 n/t Gormy Cuss Sep 2014 #1
Bad is bad, it's all bad. NYC_SKP Sep 2014 #2
Maybe not minimize ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2014 #31
Same way "white people get beat up by cops too, you know" changes the randys1 Sep 2014 #36
And, there most be zero tolerance for violence against men; but ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2014 #40
Only when there aren't enough minorities to rough up. EEO Sep 2014 #138
No doubt, that's a fair observation. NYC_SKP Sep 2014 #37
Well ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2014 #44
I think we agree it has no place but I'm not sure it's designed to derail, even if that's the impact NYC_SKP Sep 2014 #50
i usually ask/tell them to "start your own thread about it" ... and they almost NEVER do. n/t Scout Sep 2014 #63
+1 Veilex Sep 2014 #107
Somebody did today ProudToBeBlueInRhody Sep 2014 #119
Its so rare as to be a non Topic. ncjustice80 Sep 2014 #130
So you dismiss that individual's personal story? ProudToBeBlueInRhody Sep 2014 #132
It isnt true abuse in the same way a white man cannot be a victim of racism. ncjustice80 Sep 2014 #133
Are you for real? Veilex Sep 2014 #141
Nope. ncjustice80 Sep 2014 #158
You need to take another look at the link I posted. Veilex Sep 2014 #173
I can tell you right now Shankapotomus Nov 2014 #200
"so even when a women does strike a man, its not actually domestic violence" lululu Sep 2014 #163
its still violence. ncjustice80 Sep 2014 #171
Well, fortunately, you don't get to make those determination. Veilex Sep 2014 #175
Crazy talk. stonecutter357 Sep 2014 #164
Right?!?!? Veilex Sep 2014 #176
i figured they would NOW, that's why i said: "and they almost NEVER do" n/t Scout Sep 2014 #186
That thread was made back on Monday night ProudToBeBlueInRhody Sep 2014 #188
nevertheless, it is still true, that they almost never do start their own thread, independent ... Scout Sep 2014 #197
well said n/t Psephos Sep 2014 #69
+1 n/t LarryNM Sep 2014 #105
+1 Veilex Sep 2014 #106
Should it be taboo AgingAmerican Sep 2014 #3
It's problematic el_bryanto Sep 2014 #4
Right nt AgingAmerican Sep 2014 #5
Well said. nt LisaLynne Sep 2014 #15
"the timing of them is problematic." Veilex Sep 2014 #108
The problem is that you almost never see these comments unless and until Sheldon Cooper Sep 2014 #8
Right, and I agree that AgingAmerican Sep 2014 #16
because they get joked about, laughed away and dismissed whatthehey Sep 2014 #18
Link to that? I recall seeing the opposite. bettyellen Sep 2014 #19
Here's one, and lookie here....started by the OP ProudToBeBlueInRhody Sep 2014 #120
technically- that is gallows humor- common here. Not laughing at a personal story of abuse. bettyellen Sep 2014 #125
If a man shoved his wife off a cliff, would that be "permissible" gallows humor too? ProudToBeBlueInRhody Sep 2014 #126
I'm not a fan of gallows humor- but I know from experience when a DUer shares a personal story of bettyellen Sep 2014 #151
"generally" is not always... Veilex Sep 2014 #178
? the thread he referenced was about a random murder- not abuse- bettyellen Sep 2014 #198
"much weirder and rare* scenario"s are not a justification Veilex Sep 2014 #199
Nope. Sheldon Cooper Sep 2014 #20
Not at all. In fact, the opposite is true kcr Sep 2014 #83
That is an excellent point. smirkymonkey Sep 2014 #67
It seems to offered as a tacit rebuttal. nt geek tragedy Sep 2014 #10
In a discussion of women being abused ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2014 #32
"I man being abused has no relevance in a discussion of women being abused" Veilex Sep 2014 #110
K&R me b zola Sep 2014 #6
"Is it an attempt to minimize the issue of male abuse against women?" Iggo Sep 2014 #7
+10000 etherealtruth Sep 2014 #26
Yes classykaren Sep 2014 #35
It's an attempt to minimize and distract. kcr Sep 2014 #9
Two reasons Kelvin Mace Sep 2014 #11
It's the "black people are racist too" defense. sufrommich Sep 2014 #12
Exactly! n/t etherealtruth Sep 2014 #27
I wasn't going to say that ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2014 #33
If you read posts about,racism rbrnmw Sep 2014 #13
I noticed that. Enthusiast Sep 2014 #24
Odd beliefs for a Progressive rbrnmw Sep 2014 #30
I haven't found that! eom. 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2014 #34
I don't have mercuryblues Sep 2014 #14
I think it should remain clear that domestic violence is still primarily men vs. women... cascadiance Sep 2014 #43
"domestic violence is still primarily men vs. women..." Absolutely true Veilex Sep 2014 #111
You're right that women also do abuse men and they are victims too... cascadiance Sep 2014 #121
I think you need to take another look at my post. Veilex Sep 2014 #123
Not as much as primarily or not it's that men tend to be physically stronger than women. Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Sep 2014 #114
I was a child. LiberalArkie Sep 2014 #17
I am sorry this happened to you. pnwmom Sep 2014 #88
Yes, it's an attempt to minimize male abuse of women. valerief Sep 2014 #21
Can you link to some supporting evidence? F4lconF16 Sep 2014 #97
Physical abuse. Physical. nt valerief Sep 2014 #159
Here's a source for you: chervilant Nov 2014 #204
"Women just don't have the hormones for physical fighting" Veilex Sep 2014 #112
Not to be able to fight. To want to fight. nt valerief Sep 2014 #160
Did you look at the link at all? Testosterone does not impact a desire to fight. Veilex Sep 2014 #179
120 subjects? And the study didn't include physical aggression. valerief Sep 2014 #182
"the study didn't include physical aggression" - Again, are you even looking at the link? Veilex Sep 2014 #184
120 subjects is certainly enough for generalized testing of hormone effects.... Veilex Sep 2014 #185
One more thing I forgot to add... Veilex Sep 2014 #181
Men have MORE. nt valerief Sep 2014 #183
They do indeed... and that doesn't matter. Veilex Sep 2014 #193
People paint with broad brushes, sometimes. That can bring out a response. randome Sep 2014 #22
It's an attempt to minimize the issue of male abuse against women. Enthusiast Sep 2014 #23
It's the old "false equivalence" game, a favorite dodge of assholes. Jackpine Radical Sep 2014 #25
^ THIS! ^ RufusTFirefly Sep 2014 #28
And don't forget our favorite: "Both Political Parties are the same...." Moonwalk Sep 2014 #48
A corollary of "They both do it." Jackpine Radical Sep 2014 #52
"They both do it." - Well, this is true. Veilex Sep 2014 #180
From what I've seen elsewhere intaglio Sep 2014 #29
I believe there's a double standard. JohnnyRingo Sep 2014 #38
Thanks for your story, Johnny, sibelian Sep 2014 #46
A lot of information in your post to digest. randome Sep 2014 #49
You are excusing her violence when you say, "These things happened in part because I provoked her." pnwmom Sep 2014 #55
Not excusing violence for any reason. JohnnyRingo Sep 2014 #70
Most criminals who are involved in violent crimes are male. pnwmom Sep 2014 #82
(Bureau of Justice Statistics, 2001) - I think your stats may be a little off... Veilex Sep 2014 #144
Thanks, but some on this thread are looking for MRA support, not facts. nt valerief Sep 2014 #177
He refers to some DUers downthread as the "hear me roar crowd" downthread. kcr Sep 2014 #81
...and just what would you say you're dealing with? JohnnyRingo Sep 2014 #89
You think I'm pigeonholing you as hating women kcr Sep 2014 #91
Sounds as though you've generalized chervilant Nov 2014 #206
Actually, I have known one person here argue it doesn't happen Prophet 451 Sep 2014 #39
Why? Probably because abuse threads tend to label all men as abusers Android3.14 Sep 2014 #41
This. Treant Sep 2014 #45
No, they don't tend to do that. kcr Sep 2014 #59
Partially Right Rilgin Sep 2014 #74
No, discussions of white privilege do not do that. kcr Sep 2014 #76
Same Point Rilgin Sep 2014 #85
And your point is wrong kcr Sep 2014 #87
Better to address what I said, not what I didn't say Rilgin Sep 2014 #156
I didn't say you claim racism doesn't exist. I said your solution is to pretend it doesn't exist. kcr Sep 2014 #192
Closer Rilgin Sep 2014 #194
Wading through your wall of text kcr Sep 2014 #196
Yes, a homeless white man dying of cancer is better off than a black man in the same situation eridani Sep 2014 #95
Here is an example Android3.14 Sep 2014 #75
How is that an example? n/t kcr Sep 2014 #77
The Detroit Free Press? 47of74 Sep 2014 #60
More accurately that all abusers are men. JohnnyRingo Sep 2014 #71
The hear me roar crowd? kcr Sep 2014 #80
No, these threads don't label all men as abusers, they label men who abuse as abusers CreekDog Sep 2014 #139
They are making a straw man argument. wildeyed Sep 2014 #42
Thank you, thank you, thank you! lark Sep 2014 #47
I think the proper response is "That's irrelevant" or "We're not talking about that" tclambert Sep 2014 #51
duh CountAllVotes Sep 2014 #53
I think it's a good idea to 'inoculate' against the inevitable people bring it up. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Sep 2014 #54
It falls in the same pattern as.... Sheepshank Sep 2014 #56
Too many people confuse objectivity and balance RufusTFirefly Sep 2014 #66
While it may very well be Sherman A1 Sep 2014 #57
Ok in my part Old Codger Sep 2014 #58
recommended to a degree AuntPatsy Sep 2014 #61
Although no one likes to think about it, rwers post here, some for years. merrily Sep 2014 #62
it happens, I have seen it. Niceguy1 Sep 2014 #64
Of course it happens... trumad Sep 2014 #65
I chalk it up to CNN viewers.... Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2014 #68
Everyone on the right does that. That is why Olberman used to rail merrily Sep 2014 #78
Thank you, Trumad Warpy Sep 2014 #72
Minimizing abuse against women Not a Fan Sep 2014 #73
Ratio orpupilofnature57 Sep 2014 #79
"Is it an attempt to minimize the issue of male abuse against women?" beam me up scottie Sep 2014 #84
nobody is condemning them... trumad Sep 2014 #86
Not at all, trumad. beam me up scottie Sep 2014 #90
cool trumad Sep 2014 #93
Subtle rationalization of misogyny . orpupilofnature57 Sep 2014 #92
Are you seriously calling me a misogynist? beam me up scottie Sep 2014 #94
No, I was responding to post#86 orpupilofnature57 Sep 2014 #98
Omg, I'm sorry. beam me up scottie Sep 2014 #99
Misogynist trumad Sep 2014 #100
HA! beam me up scottie Sep 2014 #102
Not all women Capt. Obvious Sep 2014 #96
Of course it's an attempt to minimize ismnotwasm Sep 2014 #101
Sometimes, it is an attempt to minimize. Behind the Aegis Sep 2014 #148
Exactly Trumad... You've got it absolutely correct... hlthe2b Sep 2014 #103
I think anyone who's been abused should be able to talk about it here, if they want. Period. villager Sep 2014 #104
Noticed that too. Rex Sep 2014 #109
Probably for the same reason I am reminded every day that men can abuse women. Egnever Sep 2014 #113
Me thinks you don't quite get it. trumad Sep 2014 #115
Some people see the speed trap and slow down while others... beam me up scottie Sep 2014 #116
Well there's a surprise Egnever Sep 2014 #118
Post removed Post removed Sep 2014 #117
because STRAIGHT WHITE MEN ARE VICTIMS TOO!!!! Kali Sep 2014 #122
AND WE STILL LOVE 'EM ALL!!! freshwest Sep 2014 #140
Because this shit is real IronLionZion Sep 2014 #124
its brought up by trolls to minimise violence against women. ncjustice80 Sep 2014 #127
If you think men who are abused don't have an equal, though different, set of challenges... moriah Sep 2014 #128
uh...no one is saying men don't get abused. trumad Sep 2014 #134
And you completely missed my point. n/t moriah Sep 2014 #135
You are the one who seems to be mistaken about a lot of things kcr Sep 2014 #149
But it's far better to express abuse in gender-neutral terms, because it DOES happen to both. moriah Sep 2014 #195
Donald Glover has a joke that addresses this. Exultant Democracy Sep 2014 #129
"Is it an attempt to minimize the issue of male abuse against women?" ReRe Sep 2014 #131
Apparently the issue is settled ProudToBeBlueInRhody Sep 2014 #136
Wow. beam me up scottie Sep 2014 #137
Just when you htink you seen it all... Behind the Aegis Sep 2014 #147
Was it Hobo's? beam me up scottie Sep 2014 #152
Yes. Behind the Aegis Sep 2014 #153
That thread is the one that made me chime in here. beam me up scottie Sep 2014 #154
Some people are gullible n/t kcr Sep 2014 #150
Are you saying the poster is a right-wing troll playing extreme LW parody? ProudToBeBlueInRhody Sep 2014 #189
Yes kcr Sep 2014 #190
Does this post by a DUer remind you of something? U4ikLefty Sep 2014 #142
I really didn't think I was saying that Hobo Sep 2014 #143
I didn't think you were either Hobo. lovemydog Sep 2014 #146
Now why would you think I was talking about you? trumad Sep 2014 #157
K&R n/t lupinella Sep 2014 #145
I think the answer is yes. They ARE trying to minimize what Rice did. DesertDiamond Sep 2014 #155
Nice call out Boom Sound 416 Sep 2014 #161
glad to see that you're in the very small minority with this opinion trumad Sep 2014 #165
So often where the truth lays Boom Sound 416 Sep 2014 #167
Oh--- trumad Sep 2014 #168
Well that's two things you've leaned Boom Sound 416 Sep 2014 #172
Deny and deflect! It's the same thing that happens whenever something racist happens. Liberal_Stalwart71 Sep 2014 #162
Why does it have to be a competition? davidn3600 Sep 2014 #166
No one is saying that..... trumad Sep 2014 #169
"Just as bad"? Yeah. Orsino Sep 2014 #170
I'm sure you don't intend it this way, but... Veilex Sep 2014 #174
Could be.. trumad Sep 2014 #187
My guess is it's 1% sincerity, 99% false equivalency. LanternWaste Sep 2014 #191
The facts are that men abuse women much more often than the reverse still_one Nov 2014 #201
If it's a duh statement for men to make Shankapotomus Nov 2014 #202
I've never seen a woman break a man's jaw, pelvis, back, or neck, Jamastiene Nov 2014 #203
It's a tu quoque shenmue Nov 2014 #205
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