General Discussion

wildeyed

(11,243 posts)

42. They are making a straw man argument.

Tue Sep 9, 2014, 12:38 PM

Sep 2014

They are not equivalent due to the history of abuse and discrimination suffered by women. Yes women can abuse men, but due to general physical differences, overarching historical and economic discrepancies, and the prevalence of man on woman violence, they are not the same thing. It's all about context. If they had been paying attention, they might have noticed that the Supreme Court just told me that my boss gets to decide about my birth control and I need to go out and buy my daughter some nail polish that changes color when exposed to date rape drugs to help her avoid being raped by an acquaintance because it is so fucking common. And now more BS with the NFL protecting abusers.

Women who abuse men are wrong. It is assault. They should be prosecuted. But sorry, I have no knowledge of the WNBA having a big problem with their stars assaulting men and the front office covering for them. No one I know worries too much about their sons being raped after the age of consent. I worry about my daughter being raped constantly, because one in three, ONE IN THREE women are raped. My sister. My best friend. I don't want it to be my daughter next. So when people want to talk about women abusing men in this context, it pisses me off. Are they paying attention to what is happening to women's rights these days? Do they care? Because we are under full attack.

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Why am I always reminded here on DU that women can be abusive just like men? [View all] trumad Sep 2014 OP

+1 n/t Gormy Cuss Sep 2014 #1

Bad is bad, it's all bad. NYC_SKP Sep 2014 #2

Maybe not minimize ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2014 #31

Same way "white people get beat up by cops too, you know" changes the randys1 Sep 2014 #36

And, there most be zero tolerance for violence against men; but ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2014 #40

Only when there aren't enough minorities to rough up. EEO Sep 2014 #138

No doubt, that's a fair observation. NYC_SKP Sep 2014 #37

Well ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2014 #44

I think we agree it has no place but I'm not sure it's designed to derail, even if that's the impact NYC_SKP Sep 2014 #50

i usually ask/tell them to "start your own thread about it" ... and they almost NEVER do. n/t Scout Sep 2014 #63

+1 Veilex Sep 2014 #107

Somebody did today ProudToBeBlueInRhody Sep 2014 #119

Its so rare as to be a non Topic. ncjustice80 Sep 2014 #130

So you dismiss that individual's personal story? ProudToBeBlueInRhody Sep 2014 #132

It isnt true abuse in the same way a white man cannot be a victim of racism. ncjustice80 Sep 2014 #133

Are you for real? Veilex Sep 2014 #141

Nope. ncjustice80 Sep 2014 #158

You need to take another look at the link I posted. Veilex Sep 2014 #173

I can tell you right now Shankapotomus Nov 2014 #200

"so even when a women does strike a man, its not actually domestic violence" lululu Sep 2014 #163

its still violence. ncjustice80 Sep 2014 #171

Well, fortunately, you don't get to make those determination. Veilex Sep 2014 #175

Crazy talk. stonecutter357 Sep 2014 #164

Right?!?!? Veilex Sep 2014 #176

i figured they would NOW, that's why i said: "and they almost NEVER do" n/t Scout Sep 2014 #186

That thread was made back on Monday night ProudToBeBlueInRhody Sep 2014 #188

nevertheless, it is still true, that they almost never do start their own thread, independent ... Scout Sep 2014 #197

well said n/t Psephos Sep 2014 #69

+1 n/t LarryNM Sep 2014 #105

+1 Veilex Sep 2014 #106

Should it be taboo AgingAmerican Sep 2014 #3

It's problematic el_bryanto Sep 2014 #4

Right nt AgingAmerican Sep 2014 #5

Well said. nt LisaLynne Sep 2014 #15

"the timing of them is problematic." Veilex Sep 2014 #108

The problem is that you almost never see these comments unless and until Sheldon Cooper Sep 2014 #8

Right, and I agree that AgingAmerican Sep 2014 #16

because they get joked about, laughed away and dismissed whatthehey Sep 2014 #18

Link to that? I recall seeing the opposite. bettyellen Sep 2014 #19

Here's one, and lookie here....started by the OP ProudToBeBlueInRhody Sep 2014 #120

technically- that is gallows humor- common here. Not laughing at a personal story of abuse. bettyellen Sep 2014 #125

If a man shoved his wife off a cliff, would that be "permissible" gallows humor too? ProudToBeBlueInRhody Sep 2014 #126

I'm not a fan of gallows humor- but I know from experience when a DUer shares a personal story of bettyellen Sep 2014 #151

"generally" is not always... Veilex Sep 2014 #178

? the thread he referenced was about a random murder- not abuse- bettyellen Sep 2014 #198

"much weirder and rare* scenario"s are not a justification Veilex Sep 2014 #199

Nope. Sheldon Cooper Sep 2014 #20

Not at all. In fact, the opposite is true kcr Sep 2014 #83

That is an excellent point. smirkymonkey Sep 2014 #67

It seems to offered as a tacit rebuttal. nt geek tragedy Sep 2014 #10

In a discussion of women being abused ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2014 #32

"I man being abused has no relevance in a discussion of women being abused" Veilex Sep 2014 #110

K&R me b zola Sep 2014 #6

"Is it an attempt to minimize the issue of male abuse against women?" Iggo Sep 2014 #7

+10000 etherealtruth Sep 2014 #26

Yes classykaren Sep 2014 #35

It's an attempt to minimize and distract. kcr Sep 2014 #9

Two reasons Kelvin Mace Sep 2014 #11

It's the "black people are racist too" defense. sufrommich Sep 2014 #12

Exactly! n/t etherealtruth Sep 2014 #27

I wasn't going to say that ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2014 #33

If you read posts about,racism rbrnmw Sep 2014 #13

I noticed that. Enthusiast Sep 2014 #24

Odd beliefs for a Progressive rbrnmw Sep 2014 #30

I haven't found that! eom. 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2014 #34

I don't have mercuryblues Sep 2014 #14

I think it should remain clear that domestic violence is still primarily men vs. women... cascadiance Sep 2014 #43

"domestic violence is still primarily men vs. women..." Absolutely true Veilex Sep 2014 #111

You're right that women also do abuse men and they are victims too... cascadiance Sep 2014 #121

I think you need to take another look at my post. Veilex Sep 2014 #123

Not as much as primarily or not it's that men tend to be physically stronger than women. Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Sep 2014 #114

I was a child. LiberalArkie Sep 2014 #17

I am sorry this happened to you. pnwmom Sep 2014 #88

Yes, it's an attempt to minimize male abuse of women. valerief Sep 2014 #21

Can you link to some supporting evidence? F4lconF16 Sep 2014 #97

Physical abuse. Physical. nt valerief Sep 2014 #159

Here's a source for you: chervilant Nov 2014 #204

"Women just don't have the hormones for physical fighting" Veilex Sep 2014 #112

Not to be able to fight. To want to fight. nt valerief Sep 2014 #160

Did you look at the link at all? Testosterone does not impact a desire to fight. Veilex Sep 2014 #179

120 subjects? And the study didn't include physical aggression. valerief Sep 2014 #182

"the study didn't include physical aggression" - Again, are you even looking at the link? Veilex Sep 2014 #184

120 subjects is certainly enough for generalized testing of hormone effects.... Veilex Sep 2014 #185

One more thing I forgot to add... Veilex Sep 2014 #181

Men have MORE. nt valerief Sep 2014 #183

They do indeed... and that doesn't matter. Veilex Sep 2014 #193

People paint with broad brushes, sometimes. That can bring out a response. randome Sep 2014 #22

It's an attempt to minimize the issue of male abuse against women. Enthusiast Sep 2014 #23

It's the old "false equivalence" game, a favorite dodge of assholes. Jackpine Radical Sep 2014 #25

^ THIS! ^ RufusTFirefly Sep 2014 #28

And don't forget our favorite: "Both Political Parties are the same...." Moonwalk Sep 2014 #48

A corollary of "They both do it." Jackpine Radical Sep 2014 #52

"They both do it." - Well, this is true. Veilex Sep 2014 #180

From what I've seen elsewhere intaglio Sep 2014 #29

I believe there's a double standard. JohnnyRingo Sep 2014 #38

Thanks for your story, Johnny, sibelian Sep 2014 #46

A lot of information in your post to digest. randome Sep 2014 #49

You are excusing her violence when you say, "These things happened in part because I provoked her." pnwmom Sep 2014 #55

Not excusing violence for any reason. JohnnyRingo Sep 2014 #70

Most criminals who are involved in violent crimes are male. pnwmom Sep 2014 #82

(Bureau of Justice Statistics, 2001) - I think your stats may be a little off... Veilex Sep 2014 #144

Thanks, but some on this thread are looking for MRA support, not facts. nt valerief Sep 2014 #177

He refers to some DUers downthread as the "hear me roar crowd" downthread. kcr Sep 2014 #81

...and just what would you say you're dealing with? JohnnyRingo Sep 2014 #89

You think I'm pigeonholing you as hating women kcr Sep 2014 #91

Sounds as though you've generalized chervilant Nov 2014 #206

Actually, I have known one person here argue it doesn't happen Prophet 451 Sep 2014 #39

Why? Probably because abuse threads tend to label all men as abusers Android3.14 Sep 2014 #41

This. Treant Sep 2014 #45

No, they don't tend to do that. kcr Sep 2014 #59

Partially Right Rilgin Sep 2014 #74

No, discussions of white privilege do not do that. kcr Sep 2014 #76

Same Point Rilgin Sep 2014 #85

And your point is wrong kcr Sep 2014 #87

Better to address what I said, not what I didn't say Rilgin Sep 2014 #156

I didn't say you claim racism doesn't exist. I said your solution is to pretend it doesn't exist. kcr Sep 2014 #192

Closer Rilgin Sep 2014 #194

Wading through your wall of text kcr Sep 2014 #196

Yes, a homeless white man dying of cancer is better off than a black man in the same situation eridani Sep 2014 #95

Here is an example Android3.14 Sep 2014 #75

How is that an example? n/t kcr Sep 2014 #77

The Detroit Free Press? 47of74 Sep 2014 #60

More accurately that all abusers are men. JohnnyRingo Sep 2014 #71

The hear me roar crowd? kcr Sep 2014 #80

No, these threads don't label all men as abusers, they label men who abuse as abusers CreekDog Sep 2014 #139

They are making a straw man argument. wildeyed Sep 2014 #42

Thank you, thank you, thank you! lark Sep 2014 #47

I think the proper response is "That's irrelevant" or "We're not talking about that" tclambert Sep 2014 #51

duh CountAllVotes Sep 2014 #53

I think it's a good idea to 'inoculate' against the inevitable people bring it up. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Sep 2014 #54

It falls in the same pattern as.... Sheepshank Sep 2014 #56

Too many people confuse objectivity and balance RufusTFirefly Sep 2014 #66

While it may very well be Sherman A1 Sep 2014 #57

Ok in my part Old Codger Sep 2014 #58

recommended to a degree AuntPatsy Sep 2014 #61

Although no one likes to think about it, rwers post here, some for years. merrily Sep 2014 #62

it happens, I have seen it. Niceguy1 Sep 2014 #64

Of course it happens... trumad Sep 2014 #65

I chalk it up to CNN viewers.... Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2014 #68

Everyone on the right does that. That is why Olberman used to rail merrily Sep 2014 #78

Thank you, Trumad Warpy Sep 2014 #72

Minimizing abuse against women Not a Fan Sep 2014 #73

Ratio orpupilofnature57 Sep 2014 #79

"Is it an attempt to minimize the issue of male abuse against women?" beam me up scottie Sep 2014 #84

nobody is condemning them... trumad Sep 2014 #86

Not at all, trumad. beam me up scottie Sep 2014 #90

cool trumad Sep 2014 #93

Subtle rationalization of misogyny . orpupilofnature57 Sep 2014 #92

Are you seriously calling me a misogynist? beam me up scottie Sep 2014 #94

No, I was responding to post#86 orpupilofnature57 Sep 2014 #98

Omg, I'm sorry. beam me up scottie Sep 2014 #99

Misogynist trumad Sep 2014 #100

HA! beam me up scottie Sep 2014 #102

Not all women Capt. Obvious Sep 2014 #96

Of course it's an attempt to minimize ismnotwasm Sep 2014 #101

Sometimes, it is an attempt to minimize. Behind the Aegis Sep 2014 #148

Exactly Trumad... You've got it absolutely correct... hlthe2b Sep 2014 #103

I think anyone who's been abused should be able to talk about it here, if they want. Period. villager Sep 2014 #104

Noticed that too. Rex Sep 2014 #109

Probably for the same reason I am reminded every day that men can abuse women. Egnever Sep 2014 #113

Me thinks you don't quite get it. trumad Sep 2014 #115

Some people see the speed trap and slow down while others... beam me up scottie Sep 2014 #116

Well there's a surprise Egnever Sep 2014 #118

Post removed Post removed Sep 2014 #117

because STRAIGHT WHITE MEN ARE VICTIMS TOO!!!! Kali Sep 2014 #122

AND WE STILL LOVE 'EM ALL!!! freshwest Sep 2014 #140

Because this shit is real IronLionZion Sep 2014 #124

its brought up by trolls to minimise violence against women. ncjustice80 Sep 2014 #127

If you think men who are abused don't have an equal, though different, set of challenges... moriah Sep 2014 #128

uh...no one is saying men don't get abused. trumad Sep 2014 #134

And you completely missed my point. n/t moriah Sep 2014 #135

You are the one who seems to be mistaken about a lot of things kcr Sep 2014 #149

But it's far better to express abuse in gender-neutral terms, because it DOES happen to both. moriah Sep 2014 #195

Donald Glover has a joke that addresses this. Exultant Democracy Sep 2014 #129

"Is it an attempt to minimize the issue of male abuse against women?" ReRe Sep 2014 #131

Apparently the issue is settled ProudToBeBlueInRhody Sep 2014 #136

Wow. beam me up scottie Sep 2014 #137

Just when you htink you seen it all... Behind the Aegis Sep 2014 #147

Was it Hobo's? beam me up scottie Sep 2014 #152

Yes. Behind the Aegis Sep 2014 #153

That thread is the one that made me chime in here. beam me up scottie Sep 2014 #154

Some people are gullible n/t kcr Sep 2014 #150

Are you saying the poster is a right-wing troll playing extreme LW parody? ProudToBeBlueInRhody Sep 2014 #189

Yes kcr Sep 2014 #190

Does this post by a DUer remind you of something? U4ikLefty Sep 2014 #142

I really didn't think I was saying that Hobo Sep 2014 #143

I didn't think you were either Hobo. lovemydog Sep 2014 #146

Now why would you think I was talking about you? trumad Sep 2014 #157

K&R n/t lupinella Sep 2014 #145

I think the answer is yes. They ARE trying to minimize what Rice did. DesertDiamond Sep 2014 #155

Nice call out Boom Sound 416 Sep 2014 #161

glad to see that you're in the very small minority with this opinion trumad Sep 2014 #165

So often where the truth lays Boom Sound 416 Sep 2014 #167

Oh--- trumad Sep 2014 #168

Well that's two things you've leaned Boom Sound 416 Sep 2014 #172

Deny and deflect! It's the same thing that happens whenever something racist happens. Liberal_Stalwart71 Sep 2014 #162

Why does it have to be a competition? davidn3600 Sep 2014 #166

No one is saying that..... trumad Sep 2014 #169

"Just as bad"? Yeah. Orsino Sep 2014 #170

I'm sure you don't intend it this way, but... Veilex Sep 2014 #174

Could be.. trumad Sep 2014 #187

My guess is it's 1% sincerity, 99% false equivalency. LanternWaste Sep 2014 #191

The facts are that men abuse women much more often than the reverse still_one Nov 2014 #201

If it's a duh statement for men to make Shankapotomus Nov 2014 #202

I've never seen a woman break a man's jaw, pelvis, back, or neck, Jamastiene Nov 2014 #203

It's a tu quoque shenmue Nov 2014 #205