General Discussion

OilemFirchen

(7,288 posts)

70. Why no troops on the ground? Because they're currently not necessary.

Thu Sep 11, 2014, 12:25 AM

Sep 2014

And because the Republicans have, once again, created an inverse political paradigm. They did so with Clinton - impeachment is no longer a tenable legal action because the Republicans trivialized it. By abusing the tradition of the Unary Executive. By attacking, then manipulating the UN. And, mostly, by ignoring our solemn requirements to both abide by our treaty responsibilities and support and defend our allies. Every one of their fuckups became a new benchmark for how we don't do things any more.

While there were a smattering of naysayers during the Bosnian conflict, the country (including the Left) supported our actions, and it became a hallmark for the proper use of U.S. (and NATO) intervention. I had occasion to witness the Dayton Peace Accords. Those people were heroes.

"Boots on the ground" is now a euphemism for "Bush Doctrine". It wasn't always that way. Shit, it wasn't ever that way.

BTW, one can't "win the hearts and minds" of religious extremists out to destroy you. We can't even do that here.

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How would DU react to the 1930s and Hitler? [View all] Drunken Irishman Sep 2014 OP

ISIS = Hitler? Hoo boy. marmar Sep 2014 #1

Obviously you can't read. Drunken Irishman Sep 2014 #4

Sorry. I was bedazzled by the really bad analogy. marmar Sep 2014 #7

No problem. I accept your apology. Drunken Irishman Sep 2014 #8

Translation: I can't counter the merits of you entire post, so I will try to mock it. joeglow3 Sep 2014 #170

What merits? Hissyspit Sep 2014 #201

The ones you choose to ignore. joeglow3 Sep 2014 #209

Point them out to me. Hissyspit Sep 2014 #263

I guaran-fucking-tee, you will not admit to anything joeglow3 Sep 2014 #269

Bernard Sanders (I-VT) - "There is no question that ISIS is a dangerous and brutal organization," FrodosPet Sep 2014 #97

ISIS is engaging in ethnic cleansing on an historical scale. pnwmom Sep 2014 #173

“Harder than anything we’ve tried to do thus far in Iraq or Afghanistan” is how one U.S. general Hissyspit Sep 2014 #198

Amnesty International lancer78 Sep 2014 #234

Did it really? thucythucy Sep 2014 #251

here is link lancer78 Sep 2014 #282

Thanks. thucythucy Sep 2014 #283

Analogy FAIL AgingAmerican Sep 2014 #2

+1 - raven mad Sep 2014 #253

There is no Germany behind ISIL RobertEarl Sep 2014 #3

ISIS is no long term threat? Drunken Irishman Sep 2014 #5

ISIS/ISIL/al Nusra/FSA/al Qaeda/Mujahideen, etc Boreal Sep 2014 #22

How did DU react to the Bush gang's 'terror' claims? You don't have to go back to Hitler sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #33

You're wrong about Germany Lurks Often Sep 2014 #151

Post removed Post removed Sep 2014 #158

good point, david! bettyellen Sep 2014 #163

I see you here too. I don't take orders from anonymous, strangers on the internet. As I was saying sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #169

Fewer than the US. GeorgeGist Sep 2014 #127

Trashed? Really? sammythecat Sep 2014 #141

It goes to show what an upstanding DU member so are when they make statements like that davidpdx Sep 2014 #159

The president as well as others have pointed out that our enemies are no longer nations davidpdx Sep 2014 #157

I believe that some of them do have boarders. RoccoR5955 Sep 2014 #248

Hitler started out as one crazy man, before he got a country's government behind him. pnwmom Sep 2014 #174

most of my posts against hitler and what i suggest we should do would be hidden samsingh Sep 2014 #6

First, they complain about a speech before it's made, then about a war that hasn't begun. NYC_SKP Sep 2014 #9

A war that hasn't begun? Hissyspit Sep 2014 #51

We're never supposed to try to act to prevent things, Erich Bloodaxe BSN Sep 2014 #145

We are supposed to wait until the war starts then get called unpatriotic Jamastiene Sep 2014 #148

No kidding. Major Hogwash Sep 2014 #69

Michael Moore is a heartthrob? First time I ever heard that. Enthusiast Sep 2014 #80

I have never heard anyone claim that on DU or otherwise. Jamastiene Sep 2014 #149

I know. The claim is ridiculous. Enthusiast Sep 2014 #152

In the way Elizabeth Warren is treestar Sep 2014 #176

Reading comprehension is often lacking. I read what DI said and agreed, but others RKP5637 Sep 2014 #130

ISIS isn't the military powerhouse that Germany was. ISIS can field about 20,000 fighters whereas neverforget Sep 2014 #10

Neither was al-Qaeda and yet, they managed to give us the most devastating attack on American soil. Drunken Irishman Sep 2014 #11

And look where that got us? A war in Afghanistan that we are still fighting, Al Qaeda still exists neverforget Sep 2014 #15

Do tell Boreal Sep 2014 #16

It was Saudis who launched that attack, and it only succeeded because the normal precautions sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #36

And do you know what made it so devastating? Erich Bloodaxe BSN Sep 2014 #146

And now we find it on DU Hissyspit Sep 2014 #196

The people who invaded the US on 9/11 were not al-Qaeda RoccoR5955 Sep 2014 #249

Looked it up, here is what Wiki has to say krawhitham Sep 2014 #266

So wiki is the end all, and be all of your research? RoccoR5955 Sep 2014 #267

Next time I'll put on a tin foil hat and go down the conspiracy rabbit hole just for you krawhitham Sep 2014 #272

That's interesting... OilemFirchen Sep 2014 #24

And Hitler took over a country with a willing populace, vast resources and a military that was neverforget Sep 2014 #28

Yet. OilemFirchen Sep 2014 #34

Where would ISIS get the nukes? Israel? Iran? neverforget Sep 2014 #35

Yes, Iran. OilemFirchen Sep 2014 #53

Iran doesn't have nukes. They have nuclear reactors but no nukes and Iran wants nothing to do neverforget Sep 2014 #62

Why no troops on the ground? Because they're currently not necessary. OilemFirchen Sep 2014 #70

so basically we're going to bomb them like we did AL Qaeda but neverforget Sep 2014 #156

No. We become isolationists joeglow3 Sep 2014 #171

and look where intervention has got us: Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya. neverforget Sep 2014 #224

And we look at what isolationism got us in WWII joeglow3 Sep 2014 #237

so we continue to do what we've been doing and expect a different result? it makes no sense neverforget Sep 2014 #243

Well, we have been doing nothing about Isis and look where it has led joeglow3 Sep 2014 #256

They started bombing weeks ago AgingAmerican Sep 2014 #259

I disagree with Iran supplying nukes to a group that hates them. The reason we are in Afghanistan is freshwest Sep 2014 #73

I didn't intend to suggest that Iran would ally themselves with ISIS/ISIL. OilemFirchen Sep 2014 #75

You're most welcome. I nearly got flamed below. Meh. freshwest Sep 2014 #93

I did. OilemFirchen Sep 2014 #95

I have to add, that I agree with you, but that Iran has a powerful backer: Russia. freshwest Sep 2014 #98

Let's hope so, fresh.. ‘Apocalyptic’ Isis beyond anything we've seen, say US defence chiefs .. " Cha Sep 2014 #107

What I find most concerning is the speed and acceptance. As you said, "They want a new home RKP5637 Sep 2014 #136

It's only a delusion if it doesn't come to pass. The caliphate is a tangible vision.. freshwest Sep 2014 #227

Thank you, as always, freshwest! Incredibly interesting!!! n/t RKP5637 Sep 2014 #242

Iran is Shiite AgingAmerican Sep 2014 #117

So you supported the Bush Doctrine then? Don't know if you noticed, but apparently it has sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #39

No. OilemFirchen Sep 2014 #57

That could be a result of staying out of it treestar Sep 2014 #162

Apples and Oranges from delete_bush Sep 2014 #56

what nukes? who are they going to get them from? Why the scaremongering? neverforget Sep 2014 #61

Right. Kim Jong-un delete_bush Sep 2014 #66

Hair on fire nonsense AgingAmerican Sep 2014 #118

Ah hah! The long forgotten partner in the Axis Of Evil Capt. Obvious Sep 2014 #131

so when are we invading North Korea? they're a far bigger threat neverforget Sep 2014 #225

The consequences of attacking N. Korea Progressive dog Sep 2014 #226

I responded to post 66 as he brought up North Korea. neverforget Sep 2014 #229

I responded to your response Progressive dog Sep 2014 #233

and you didn't take into account the context of that neverforget Sep 2014 #244

Yes I did Progressive dog Sep 2014 #245

Once upon a time the Nazis were just a bunch of blowhards and malcontents Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2014 #116

+1, n/t RKP5637 Sep 2014 #140

our security is a different question now treestar Sep 2014 #161

That was a delightful little righteous rant. JaneyVee Sep 2014 #12

It was. 4b5f940728b232b034e4 Sep 2014 #85

Sheesh Boreal Sep 2014 #13

Given the love for Putin, I think I can guess how some would react. eom MohRokTah Sep 2014 #14

Yawn! GeorgeGist Sep 2014 #129

anti-interventionist is not necessarily irrational MattBaggins Sep 2014 #17

No, you're not pointing out our hypocrisy. Hissyspit Sep 2014 #18

This OP was more entertaining when I read the original bullwinkle428 Sep 2014 #19

"A few bombs" LeftyMom Sep 2014 #20

History much? NYC_SKP Sep 2014 #23

Exactly. History. Western intervention set this shitstorm brewing. LeftyMom Sep 2014 #26

And Hitler was brought to power via our intervention in World War I. Drunken Irishman Sep 2014 #40

My point is that intervening has only made the situation worse, LeftyMom Sep 2014 #45

So how many Iraqis should ISIS kill first? jeff47 Sep 2014 #204

You're right, this hole isn't nearly deep enough and we should keep digging. Great plan. nt LeftyMom Sep 2014 #206

You're free to say you don't care about them. jeff47 Sep 2014 #208

I don't think bombing is going to make for a reduced casualty count. LeftyMom Sep 2014 #213

Considering it already has, your expectations might be off. jeff47 Sep 2014 #214

Or we could be rational phil89 Sep 2014 #280

That is a very stupid argument MFrohike Sep 2014 #60

Analogy Fail 2.0 AgingAmerican Sep 2014 #119

How about we quit doing the same thing over and over again Jamastiene Sep 2014 #150

So you too supported the Bush Doctrine?? And here I thought DU was opposed to sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #43

There has been a disturbing tendency with dems BlindTiresias Sep 2014 #236

That depends. In this scenario, would our nation be arming the Germans? SolutionisSolidarity Sep 2014 #21

I will say this: Raine1967 Sep 2014 #25

A smart guy said something about this. LeftyMom Sep 2014 #27

This is more than a humanitarian problem. Drunken Irishman Sep 2014 #42

There is zero credible argument that Isis is a threat to the US. LeftyMom Sep 2014 #47

Just as there was zero credible al-Qaeda was a threat to the US, right? Drunken Irishman Sep 2014 #50

Do you even listen to yourself? Without embarrassment? LeftyMom Sep 2014 #54

You think it's goofy treestar Sep 2014 #165

PDB! Was ignored by Bush! GeorgeGist Sep 2014 #133

That first paragraph does not describe what Obama said treestar Sep 2014 #164

I fear that some are making believe they live in Luxembourg or some tiny place... NYC_SKP Sep 2014 #29

I know, right? Some here were even against us getting rid of Saddam! Maybe they love dictators and Chathamization Sep 2014 #30

I remember, those who opposed that illegal invasion were Saddam Lovers. Just saw sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #46

Yep. People here are saying the same thing that Bush and his lackeys were saying in '03. Chathamization Sep 2014 #124

No they aren't. OilemFirchen Sep 2014 #177

Perhaps if you can see why "ISIS" is not like Hitler you can also see how silly it is to compare Chathamization Sep 2014 #180

Not like 1930s Hitler. OilemFirchen Sep 2014 #184

More like parallels to the rhetoric that got us into Iraq. No, not parallels; the same arguments. Chathamization Sep 2014 #189

Did Obama make a Hitler analogy? OilemFirchen Sep 2014 #191

Eh, nice nonsequitur. You and the OP made the analogy; no one accused Obama of making it. N/T Chathamization Sep 2014 #200

Actually, you did. OilemFirchen Sep 2014 #211

Wha…? That statement says nothing about Obama. You and the OP are made the analogy, and that’s what Chathamization Sep 2014 #215

Oh, yes they are. Hissyspit Sep 2014 #202

"I can't imagine why people would think that way." OilemFirchen Sep 2014 #212

You're not surprised I can think critically? Hissyspit Sep 2014 #218

No I'm not. OilemFirchen Sep 2014 #221

This message was self-deleted by its author Hissyspit Sep 2014 #260

Well, since you've got nothing but attack on (and presumption about) me. Hissyspit Sep 2014 #264

Your analogy isn't perfect in every single way... Silent3 Sep 2014 #31

This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Sep 2014 #32

The much-closer analogy is how did DU respond MannyGoldstein Sep 2014 #37

Saudi Arabia needs to step up and take care of their affairs. The rest of us can only lament. mia Sep 2014 #38

I do agree with you there... Drunken Irishman Sep 2014 #44

Let the Arab states form their own coalition. mia Sep 2014 #49

It's about time we clean up the mess. Drunken Irishman Sep 2014 #52

Yes by all means ... GeorgeGist Sep 2014 #135

No, we don't own it. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Sep 2014 #147

After reading this, all I can say is that it might be time for you to become "Sober Irishman". n/t BlueStater Sep 2014 #41

LOL! nt City Lights Sep 2014 #154

FDR's fireside chats arguing for lend-lease would have been met with mockery and disgust Nye Bevan Sep 2014 #48

You've got that right! eom MohRokTah Sep 2014 #72

No doubt. delete_bush Sep 2014 #74

Very True treestar Sep 2014 #167

So now ISIS that no one heard about a few months ago former9thward Sep 2014 #55

Go home BlindTiresias Sep 2014 #58

Most Americans held that view until Pearl Harbor, then WTC. Excellent rant, though. freshwest Sep 2014 #59

What a disgusting graphic Buddha2B Sep 2014 #71

Australia? You only exist because we let you live. Enthusiast Sep 2014 #84

Unwarranted. You could have added your data without talking like that. freshwest Sep 2014 #92

"You'd actively dismiss the deaths of millions"? Old Crow Sep 2014 #63

This wasn't his only nonsense post of the day: Hissyspit Sep 2014 #193

That's a particularly nasty thread, QC Sep 2014 #255

K&R treestar Sep 2014 #64

+1 ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2014 #182

power corrupts, I think that's the nature of humanity. I agree with you & President Obama, Sunlei Sep 2014 #65

The choice isn't (fill in the blank) or do nothing.... Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2014 #67

we know how the Putinistas here would react, they'd be talking about geek tragedy Sep 2014 #68

This bullshit got old around 1946, I think. JackRiddler Sep 2014 #76

Completely unrecommended. Enthusiast Sep 2014 #77

The Hitler problem should be turned over to the League of Nations bluestateguy Sep 2014 #78

It'll still end up in our Department of War. OilemFirchen Sep 2014 #83

FDR didn't call Hitler JV in 1938. rug Sep 2014 #79

In January 1938 he could have. Hitler had not yet 'reunited' the ethnic Germans in Austria and pampango Sep 2014 #172

Ermächtigungsgesetz (1933), Dachau (1933), Nuremburg Laws (1935), Saarland (1935), rug Sep 2014 #188

You're on quite a roll. Union Scribe Sep 2014 #81

+1 LOL! Old Crow Sep 2014 #82

Did I miss the point where Obama said he'd put boots on the ground? Drunken Irishman Sep 2014 #89

We don't need to put boots on the ground? Hissyspit Sep 2014 #197

LOL! Rex Sep 2014 #232

The Psychopathic Maniacs Who Cut Off Heads? cer7711 Sep 2014 #86

The Drunk's money shot: "irrational anti-interventionist ideology." blkmusclmachine Sep 2014 #87

You're absolutely right. Drunken Irishman Sep 2014 #90

We helped create this. Live and Learn Sep 2014 #105

We helped create Hitler. Didn't mean we didn't step in to fix it. Drunken Irishman Sep 2014 #109

Or you could learn from it and not to it over and over. Live and Learn Sep 2014 #111

Our involvement in World War I ultimately led to his rise a few years later. Drunken Irishman Sep 2014 #115

I don't think we helped create Hitler treestar Sep 2014 #168

How about a straw man? treestar Sep 2014 #166

I like it rpannier Sep 2014 #88

Looks like you got your answer. Behind the Aegis Sep 2014 #91

no surprise from me. Looking at all the "Obama is a war monger" threads, I wouldn't expect anything still_one Sep 2014 #101

Not the same Vots Sep 2014 #94

Not sure it will instantly make us safer Live and Learn Sep 2014 #103

Okay Vots Sep 2014 #178

Hitler and the Nazi regime was unique in all human history committing industrial scale genocide. gordianot Sep 2014 #96

There have actually been quite a few in the history of man. You also left out China and the still_one Sep 2014 #100

The list in the 20th century is almost endless but Nazi Germany is still unique for all time. gordianot Sep 2014 #143

I would say that the House of Saud is a piss-poor stand in for Churchill Tom Ripley Sep 2014 #99

How did DU react when Obama ordered the seals to illegally enter Pakistan and eliminate bin laden? still_one Sep 2014 #102

Not well. Some were appalled. Some were jubiliant. The first group hated on the second. freshwest Sep 2014 #112

there's another reason to support this war Enrique Sep 2014 #104

I think a lot of them would have posted to say Hissyspit Sep 2014 #106

I actually LOL'ed at this Capt. Obvious Sep 2014 #175

war is groovy. will get it right this time because obama! KG Sep 2014 #108

Putin and Ukraine is your answer. joshcryer Sep 2014 #110

Well said. The OP and most responses have focused on ISIS and what the US should and shouldn't do pampango Sep 2014 #120

Thank you get the red out Sep 2014 #113

This is all from Limbaugh's show! RandiFan1290 Sep 2014 #114

Oh wow! Very interesting. Oilwellian Sep 2014 #207

So did you listen to Russ yourself, Progressive dog Sep 2014 #223

Dr Frankenstein insists we must fight the monster CJCRANE Sep 2014 #121

Divided Opinion - Same As Now sub.theory Sep 2014 #122

Pretty much the same way my grandfather did after the "Anschluss" in 1938. hobbit709 Sep 2014 #123

What ISIS lacks is the industrial capacity to wage a large-scale war. baldguy Sep 2014 #125

You're liable to break the internet ... GeorgeGist Sep 2014 #126

I Putin/Ukraine is a better analogy distantearlywarning Sep 2014 #128

The America's Always Wrong Brigade sub.theory Sep 2014 #137

Does O'Reilly object to you quoting him verbatim? Doctor_J Sep 2014 #235

What a BS comparison. Threedifferentones Sep 2014 #132

Biggest bucket of fail on the board this week. 99Forever Sep 2014 #134

K & R. n/t FSogol Sep 2014 #138

Based upon hindsight melm00se Sep 2014 #139

Huge K&R... SidDithers Sep 2014 #142

ISIS, really? Erich Bloodaxe BSN Sep 2014 #144

Most likely, I'd react the way we reacted Algernon Moncrieff Sep 2014 #153

It's a good thing we have people here that love to complain about DU Rex Sep 2014 #155

"bring a little bit of sanity back to the planet" reorg Sep 2014 #160

You forgot the first rule of analogies. First one to make a Hitler comparison, loses the argument NightWatcher Sep 2014 #179

A few points DemocratSinceBirth Sep 2014 #181

Did you buy this same argument when it was about Saddam Hussein? Iggo Sep 2014 #183

If we had funded, and continued to find Hiltler in the first place, we'd suggest prosecuting those grahamhgreen Sep 2014 #185

Many DUers would throw Roosevelt under the bus and say it was all his fault. stevenleser Sep 2014 #186

Actually many DUers would say Hissyspit Sep 2014 #190

Right, the same DUers who are all over DU saying the war on ISIS is the same as the 2003 Iraq war stevenleser Sep 2014 #192

No. Hissyspit Sep 2014 #203

Sure sign of someone losing an argument is when a ROFL is used instead of actually making one. Dawgs Sep 2014 #271

Exactly! And they are the same members who have complained about Obama daily. Major Hogwash Sep 2014 #252

Um Hissyspit Sep 2014 #262

nothing. Hitler would have shut us down long ago. librechik Sep 2014 #187

To quote Johnny Carson: OilemFirchen Sep 2014 #195

Or, for a more accurate comparison, The Tonkin Gulf Incident. Tierra_y_Libertad Sep 2014 #194

55 recs so far for this mindless smear. Hissyspit Sep 2014 #199

And as posted above... Oilwellian Sep 2014 #210

How would DU react to Executive Order 9066... SidDithers Sep 2014 #205

Precisely treestar Sep 2014 #250

^^A Voice of Sanity^^ Progressive dog Sep 2014 #216

Oh, it's not even CLOSE to a voice of sanity. Hissyspit Sep 2014 #217

Notice 114 provided no link to the show Progressive dog Sep 2014 #222

Well, why don't you explain to me how this trashy Limbaugh-like smear of an OP, Hissyspit Sep 2014 #261

Oh now it's a "Limbaugh-like" smear Progressive dog Sep 2014 #268

The one in the OP. Hissyspit Sep 2014 #273

You linked to 114 which did Progressive dog Sep 2014 #274

I didn't read it as a literal claim, you did. nt Hissyspit Sep 2014 #275

It made a literal claim, so you didn't read it as written Progressive dog Sep 2014 #276

Saudia Arabia beheaded 4 people this week.. 3 for Hash charges SomethingFishy Sep 2014 #219

I bet the anti-war members Capt. Obvious Sep 2014 #220

For starters, ther would have been no Hitler Jackpine Radical Sep 2014 #228

just like reading freeperville in 2001 Doctor_J Sep 2014 #230

Wow. WilliamPitt Sep 2014 #231

WarKillGood, man. Iggo Sep 2014 #238

Your moral argument is as juvenile and dishonest as it was when Rumsfeld made it. Marr Sep 2014 #239

Thank you. QC Sep 2014 #240

Actually I doubt HE would be so craven. Puglover Sep 2014 #241

And he can probably construct a simple analogy QC Sep 2014 #254

LOL, is this a serious post? Or just messing with us? nt Logical Sep 2014 #246

hypocracy, my ass! RoccoR5955 Sep 2014 #247

+ a trillion. Excellent Excellent post. The Best in the topic. nationalize the fed Sep 2014 #265

k/r 840high Sep 2014 #257

Google "Abraham Lincoln Brigade" eridani Sep 2014 #258

To me, there is no distinction between the rhetoric in the OP and the rhetoric of the hard right. nt Romulox Sep 2014 #270

Hefty Pantload whatchamacallit Sep 2014 #277

Whatever gets us into war phil89 Sep 2014 #279

We've tried this. We can't fix it. phil89 Sep 2014 #278

I lived through WWII. I was born in 1939. RebelOne Sep 2014 #281