General Discussion

JoePhilly

(27,787 posts)

63. It's about your opinion.

Thu Sep 11, 2014, 09:46 AM

Sep 2014

By posting on the internet, you asked for others to comment on your opinion.

I did not seek you out.

You equate Obama's action here with that of Bush when he invaded Iraq.

I believe you are wrong.

You also made predictions about what will happen next. Predictions that you've walked back some since being challenged.

The use of US military power is always a serious matter. The details matter. It's always complex.

Some on right over simplify things and argue for an over use of our force. Some on the left do the same thing, just in the other direction.

Was Clinton wrong to engage in Bosnia? Was Bush wrong to invade Iraq?

Our military can be used effectively. Or not. To not recognize this is foolish.

And when you run around screaming that what is happening now is the same as Bush's invasion of Iraq, it's clear that your opinion isn't based in reality.

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This is a war of aggression [View all] morningfog Sep 2014 OP

You got that right. Every. Single. Word. blkmusclmachine Sep 2014 #1

executing u.s. citizen journalists doesn't justify intervention? Adam051188 Sep 2014 #2

A 3-year regional war is not simply "intervention." morningfog Sep 2014 #5

Occasionally, we defend others who are victims of aggression. Where have you been? NYC_SKP Sep 2014 #3

That argument may have worked when the scope morningfog Sep 2014 #8

Iraq asked for Obama's help, did they ask for Bush's help? JoePhilly Sep 2014 #26

You mean Saddam didn't ask to be deposed? Bragi Sep 2014 #35

The current Iraq government has asked JoePhilly Sep 2014 #46

Both are wars of aggression /nt Bragi Sep 2014 #55

I'm not sure how one would go about having a war without it! [nt] Jester Messiah Sep 2014 #129

When did Syria ask for our help? morningfog Sep 2014 #60

Did Germany ask for our help in WWII? (nt) jeff47 Sep 2014 #103

Germany declared war on the US and then conducted offensive operations against US shipping in the neverforget Sep 2014 #119

And did they ask for our help? jeff47 Sep 2014 #120

Germany is a bad analogy then. neverforget Sep 2014 #121

No, Syrians (as members of ISIS) invaded Iraq. jeff47 Sep 2014 #122

ISIS is NOT a nation-state. Germany declared war as part of the treaty with Japan after Japan neverforget Sep 2014 #123

Doesn't matter. Syrians are invading. jeff47 Sep 2014 #126

'Regular old war'? What does that mean? Tanks and infantry? randome Sep 2014 #31

For the outrage to remain at current levels... JoePhilly Sep 2014 #47

We are in it so the MIC can continue to soak up our tax dollars. Dustlawyer Sep 2014 #88

Thank you. I can't believe people are call it a war of aggression when we were asked to help. Maraya1969 Sep 2014 #91

Thank you. And it's about as measured and limited in scope as anyone could ask for. NYC_SKP Sep 2014 #93

We are always promised about "measured war and limited in scope operations." KoKo Sep 2014 #124

Ignoring the rest of the issue, F4lconF16 Sep 2014 #138

Occasionally? There are billions of people in this world who need help. Why the middle east? liberal_at_heart Sep 2014 #131

Yes it is. It is not counter-terrorism. It is war. cali Sep 2014 #4

He said there were threats to American interests. HereSince1628 Sep 2014 #6

And the more American money and personnel we send, morningfog Sep 2014 #7

Yes, that's part of the "Sunk Cost" effect, usually exploited by casinos HereSince1628 Sep 2014 #11

Human Rights - To Hell with Em sub.theory Sep 2014 #9

The best way to avenge human rights abuses is with more human rights abuses. morningfog Sep 2014 #17

You realize how many innocents will die if no one lifts a finger to help? randome Sep 2014 #33

Actually, Congress is supposed to make that calculation Vattel Sep 2014 #37

The CIC makes the calculation and presents it to Congress. Same thing. randome Sep 2014 #43

He doesn't have the authority to place the nation in a state of war, which is what he is doing. Vattel Sep 2014 #62

So call for him to be impeached, then. randome Sep 2014 #69

Muddled thinking has muddled it. And the suggestion that this is not war in the relevant sense is Vattel Sep 2014 #75

War, 'as that concept was understood', related to nations. ISIS is not a nation. randome Sep 2014 #81

In 18th century America the concept of war was not used only to apply to international violence. Vattel Sep 2014 #117

You have it backwards. amandabeech Sep 2014 #125

It's a difference without a distinction. Yes, you are both correct. randome Sep 2014 #140

Under the Constitution, there is a difference. amandabeech Sep 2014 #142

I agree with you but if I may add a historical note -- Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2014 #141

The US Won't be Targeting Innocent Civilians sub.theory Sep 2014 #44

Thanks for your preemptive apologetics /nt Bragi Sep 2014 #57

The US is not at threat. This is not our fight. Even Turkey, who shares a large border morningfog Sep 2014 #61

Thus, the hell with human rights sub.theory Sep 2014 #68

What a valuable coalition member! morningfog Sep 2014 #70

I agree with you there sub.theory Sep 2014 #71

You didn't address the question down below, so I will ask it again joeglow3 Sep 2014 #74

Wrong question. Here is a better analogy: morningfog Sep 2014 #76

What gang was the beheaded journalist in? joeglow3 Sep 2014 #77

Were we at threat from Al Qaeda? Schema Thing Sep 2014 #98

We need to let brown people kill brown people and stay out of it FrodosPet Sep 2014 #132

Bombing Syria would not address those residents morningfog Sep 2014 #134

I suppose you are right FrodosPet Sep 2014 #139

Of COURSE we won't be targeting innocent civilians -- we never do! But . . . markpkessinger Sep 2014 #130

And if we hadn't aggressively invaded Europe in WW2, how many more millions would have died? pnwmom Sep 2014 #97

^^K&R^^ Progressive dog Sep 2014 #23

Who cares if Boko Haram is murdering, raping and pillaging? cali Sep 2014 #36

They need to be dealt with too sub.theory Sep 2014 #48

so far, we have seen dismal failure- in Iraq, in Afghanistan. We have seen the growth cali Sep 2014 #58

What other approach? sub.theory Sep 2014 #73

Thanks for the flashback from 2003. This is exactly what caused this mess in the first place. Chathamization Sep 2014 #111

Lots of people in Kurdistan and northern Iraq would disagree on who the aggressor is. NuclearDem Sep 2014 #10

It is. However... The_Commonist Sep 2014 #12

I agree. I think he's stewarding CJCRANE Sep 2014 #18

We have been buying it for years, amandabeech Sep 2014 #127

PNAC by any other name would still smell of death. Octafish Sep 2014 #13

We should just allow them to behead American citizen journalists with no consequences? Mercy_Queen Sep 2014 #14

I feel badly for their families, too. morningfog Sep 2014 #20

More Americans died in the ensuing wars than on 9/11. CJCRANE Sep 2014 #22

I'm for us fight ISIS, but not simply to avenge the deaths of two Americans Schema Thing Sep 2014 #100

Emotional reasoning at it's best phil89 Sep 2014 #102

No, you arrest them and bring them to trial. Don't need a war. How bout we go to war with Saudi grahamhgreen Sep 2014 #118

I disagree. I will have to launch an independent thread on this. Laelth Sep 2014 #15

Not Even Close, Ma'am The Magistrate Sep 2014 #16

US air force for hire. Free of charge. What a great set up. morningfog Sep 2014 #24

Be That As It May, Ma'am, This Is Straight Charter-Sanctioned Self-Defense And Not Aggressive War The Magistrate Sep 2014 #28

It is not US self-defense. It is a war of choice and aggression for us to enter. morningfog Sep 2014 #30

That Is Not How It Works, Ma'am The Magistrate Sep 2014 #42

Our mission is much broader than protecting the people of Iraq or Iraq's territorial integrity. morningfog Sep 2014 #54

I Question Your Analysis, Ma'am The Magistrate Sep 2014 #66

So in WWII we should have stopped at France's border? (nt) jeff47 Sep 2014 #107

there appear to be many questions regarding its legality. cali Sep 2014 #40

People Can Always Be Found, Ma'am, To Claim Use Of Force By The U.S. Is a Crime The Magistrate Sep 2014 #45

From what I've been reading it doesn't appear that way at all. Some very cali Sep 2014 #50

Most Of What I Have Seen, Ma'am, Relates To Constitutionality The Magistrate Sep 2014 #65

And Syria? Syria isn't asking us to bomb their territory. Comrade Grumpy Sep 2014 #106

Syria Exercises No Governance Over Areas Held By I.S.I.L., Comrade The Magistrate Sep 2014 #110

Like Nixon bombing Cambodia. GeorgeGist Sep 2014 #114

Bombing North Vietnamese Forces In Cmbodia Was Not Illegal, Sir The Magistrate Sep 2014 #115

Like Iraq it will also be a violation of international law malaise Sep 2014 #19

+1 newfie11 Sep 2014 #49

So no invasion and occupation? JoePhilly Sep 2014 #21

No occupation. morningfog Sep 2014 #29

So when you say we'll be adding troops JoePhilly Sep 2014 #39

This isn't about me Joe. morningfog Sep 2014 #51

It's about your opinion. JoePhilly Sep 2014 #63

I haven't walked shit back. morningfog Sep 2014 #67

You did walk some "shit" back. JoePhilly Sep 2014 #83

Wrong, it's only when there is an R in office that it's aggression. Puzzledtraveller Sep 2014 #25

Unless the country asked for our help. JoePhilly Sep 2014 #32

We are part of the world Progressive dog Sep 2014 #27

That argument only worked when there was a specific threat to a specific people. morningfog Sep 2014 #34

So the Kurds and the people trapped on the mountain Progressive dog Sep 2014 #59

Iraq's territory and everything within Syria are not specific atrocities to people. morningfog Sep 2014 #64

ISIS leaders actually have threatened the USA, Progressive dog Sep 2014 #112

oh come on treestar Sep 2014 #38

Because he's been sure we were going to invade JoePhilly Sep 2014 #41

Wars R Us marions ghost Sep 2014 #52

+1 valerief Sep 2014 #56

Correct. Thespian2 Sep 2014 #78

Endless war is the agenda marions ghost Sep 2014 #94

I seem to recall over the past couple of years seeing people on the teevee promoting books about how valerief Sep 2014 #53

As was the air campaign against Bosnia and Herzegovina. LanternWaste Sep 2014 #72

The unanswered question to me... freebrew Sep 2014 #79

Back in 2001, people were pissed off because the Bushistas ignored al-Quaida. riqster Sep 2014 #80

Doesn't make sense, does it? sub.theory Sep 2014 #85

Agreed. It's a huge mess, partly of America's devising. riqster Sep 2014 #89

We have always been at war with Eastasia Man from Pickens Sep 2014 #82

It is that and more. Are we in fact ballyhoo Sep 2014 #84

Bush Doctrine-Obama Doctrine=Corporate Doctrine. woo me with science Sep 2014 #86

War is what happens when you lower the U.S. deficit. Always. nt valerief Sep 2014 #87

why are you surprised? This is who we are now. librechik Sep 2014 #90

As Al From said. "The antiwar people cannot define the Democratic Party." raouldukelives Sep 2014 #92

The Best and the Brightest OldRedneck Sep 2014 #95

Exactly. We never learn phil89 Sep 2014 #104

Thank you for posting. n/t amandabeech Sep 2014 #128

When we went to war against Germany, Germany hadn't attacked us. pnwmom Sep 2014 #96

Don't forget the mercenary armies we have over there. Why did Erik Prince move to sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #99

No, it isn't. jeff47 Sep 2014 #101

Agreed. These ridiculous OPs contain the laziest most superficial analysis imaginable in order to stevenleser Sep 2014 #105

Slogans and labels are far more important than reality. (nt) jeff47 Sep 2014 #108

Unlike your careful and sophisticated work. morningfog Sep 2014 #137

I always include facts and links, unlike you. nt stevenleser Sep 2014 #143

Neener neener. No you don't. morningfog Sep 2014 #144

No it's not! They sunk the Maine...er..attacked our ships in the Gulf of Tonkin...er..the Alamo? Tierra_y_Libertad Sep 2014 #109

kick for the truth woo me with science Sep 2014 #113

especially when you include Syria. grahamhgreen Sep 2014 #116

responding to Iraq's Niceguy1 Sep 2014 #133

Yeah, you got me pegged nice guy. morningfog Sep 2014 #136

Grenada, anyone? raven mad Sep 2014 #135