Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

pampango

(24,692 posts)
47. Perhaps Yanukovich made a wise choice but he was reversing a campaign pledge. People cared.
Thu Sep 11, 2014, 09:48 AM
Sep 2014

From my understanding of the deals on offer, I can understand that Yanukovich may thought that Russia's offer was better for Ukraine. Russia had made it clear that there was a big downside if Ukraine chose a trade deal with the EU and Russia terms were indeed more favorable, at least in the short terms - which is all politicians care about.

The real problem he had was that he had campaigned for president on a platform of seeking closer integration with Europe rather than with Russia. Did he really mean that during the campaign or was he just saying something that he thought people wanted to hear? (He would not be the first politician to say something that he did not believe just to get elected.)

He had every 'right' to change his mind about a policy he had campaigned on, just as Obama and all politicians and political leaders seems to think they have. Of course, citizens had every right to express their discontent about his policy reversal, just as our voters do. Either voters felt more deeply about the issue than Mr. Yanukovich understood or he simply did not do a good job of explaining why the Russian offer was superior and he was reversing his previous pledge.

The massive crowds of protesters were not just Western-backed protesters unless you assume that Ukrainians don't care enough about their country to protest political decision they don't agree with. They protested in Kiev throughout a Ukrainian winter - which is not an endeavor for the faint of heart.

And they did not stage a coup. Mr. Yanukovich did not have to leave but chose to do so and flee to Russia with his money. (Perhaps coincidentally, his departure for Russia provided the pretext for the chain of events that led to Russian annexing Crimea. Funny how that worked out.) He still controlled the army and security forces, including the Berkut, when he left. The demonstrators had none of the tanks, mortars, artillery, anti-aircraft missiles and other military equipment that the separatists in eastern Ukraine have. He was in no danger and could still be in Kiev governing until December elections which is what he had agreed to do.



Who would issue loans? Any country looking for a good investment. China eg. We are indebted to China, why not Ukraine?

In December 2013:

China has already given Ukraine $10 billion in loans, Reuters reported, citing Volodymyr Fesenko of Ukraine’s Penta think-tank.

Although Russia has repeatedly warned Kiev it will end trade benefits if it signs an association deal with the EU, Ukraine remains caught between Russia and the EU. Ukraine will send delegations to both the EU and Moscow “to restore economic trade relations,” Prime Minister Azarov said Tuesday.

http://rt.com/business/ukraine-china-loan-yanukovych-763/

Ukraine has borrowed $10 billion from China as of last December. They weren't getting any more.

In February 2014:

China sues Ukraine for breach of US$3b loan-for-grain agreement

China is seeking compensation of US$3 billion from Ukraine for the breach of a loans-for-grain contract signed in 2012, Russian media reported yesterday

http://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/1435976/china-sues-ukraine-breach-us3b-loan-grain-agreement

It looks to me like China was not likely to loan Ukraine any more money. So it probably came down to Russia or the EU/IMF.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

This is why Kissinger. Octafish Sep 2014 #1
DURec leftstreet Sep 2014 #2
Guess who's talking at Yalta? Octafish Sep 2014 #5
Ironically, in a piece called "Losing Credibility", the piece loses its own credibility.... Tommy_Carcetti Sep 2014 #3
Michael Hudson Octafish Sep 2014 #4
That's lovely. Tommy_Carcetti Sep 2014 #23
Isn't it, though? Octafish Sep 2014 #26
If you define "integrity" as someone who blatantly lies in the face of truth, sure. Tommy_Carcetti Sep 2014 #27
No. Integrity means he pegged the banksters from Day 1. Octafish Sep 2014 #28
Calling it right in America in 2008 doesn't make him any less wrong.... Tommy_Carcetti Sep 2014 #30
When so many people are saying the same thing, people who actually sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #31
Who are all the people claiming that there was a coup in Ukraine? Tommy_Carcetti Sep 2014 #32
I'm saying the OPPOSITE. I'm saying that video evidence AND audio evidence of the coup sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #34
You are smart enough to realize that not all regime changes are "coups", correct? Tommy_Carcetti Sep 2014 #35
Yanukovich was driven from his position as elected president of Ukraine by months of sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #37
Regardless of your personal charactarization of the Maidan protests, Yanukovych was not removed.... Tommy_Carcetti Sep 2014 #38
Utter baloney.... Xolodno Sep 2014 #42
Yanukovych had a tendency of saying one thing and doing another. Tommy_Carcetti Sep 2014 #43
The fact it took him three days doesn't prove.. Xolodno Sep 2014 #44
You're playing fast and loose with the concept of a "coup" now. Tommy_Carcetti Sep 2014 #48
No where near as "fast and loose" as the installation of the Bush/Cheney regime and the blowback bobthedrummer Sep 2014 #50
Okay? Tommy_Carcetti Sep 2014 #51
Seriously, how many more sources, and there are now literally thousands across the globe sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #6
Lot of people don't understand how the World Bank works or Rex Sep 2014 #8
I know, but here on DU, it's hard to believe there is a single person who needs an 'assessment' sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #9
Also that was back on DU2 when it was a less strict forum. We could talk all day Rex Sep 2014 #10
It would be funny if it weren't so sad malaise Sep 2014 #13
I'm more than happy to read an honest, objective analysis of the IMF. Tommy_Carcetti Sep 2014 #25
I believe you are speaking for yourself. The author's credentials sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #33
A mere appeal to authority is a fallacious position. Tommy_Carcetti Sep 2014 #36
Excellent article, thank you. This was all about the IMF V Ukraine being independent of the sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #7
Larry Summers to address Yalta European Strategy (YES) conference, being held in Kiev this year... Octafish Sep 2014 #18
Great article deserves a Kick. nt elias49 Sep 2014 #11
The article is right on the mark... MattSh Sep 2014 #12
The force behind the creation of the IMF and World Bank - FDR. Who wants out of both - pampango Sep 2014 #14
The IMF and World Bank long ago strayed from anything they were intended for originally. sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #39
Then who loans money to countries that need it? Rich countries, rich corporations, rich pampango Sep 2014 #41
Take Ukraine. The government had a choice, take the IMF loans which have MAJOR strings sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #45
Perhaps Yanukovich made a wise choice but he was reversing a campaign pledge. People cared. pampango Sep 2014 #47
Excellent response. nt Tommy_Carcetti Sep 2014 #52
Vladimir Putin said he could "take Kiev in two weeks” Nye Bevan Sep 2014 #15
Ukraine prefers to face repossession by the west than repossession by russia mathematic Sep 2014 #16
I would rather someone make me a loan than annex part of my property (nt) Nye Bevan Sep 2014 #17
Me too, which is why I would avoid any loans from the IMF, where that is their very goal, to sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #40
Only if Ukraine means malaise Sep 2014 #19
BKliban explained... Octafish Sep 2014 #20
ROFL malaise Sep 2014 #21
LOL leftstreet Sep 2014 #29
excellent woo me with science Sep 2014 #49
"You don't understand.....that Ukraine is not even a state." Tommy_Carcetti Sep 2014 #24
kicking.....n/t Hotler Sep 2014 #22
The Kamikaze Economics and Politics of Forcing Austerity on the Ukraine Octafish Sep 2014 #46
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»The IMF’s New Cold War Lo...»Reply #47