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hueymahl

(2,449 posts)
41. I have great respect for you, but this post is mostly horseshit
Fri Sep 12, 2014, 12:17 AM
Sep 2014

It is simply the repackaging of neocon philosophy using bigger words and liberal code.

The problem with your analysis, is the same problem with Neocon analysis. It makes assumptions that do not coincide with reality.

In a response above, you say something I truly believe: Liberalism requires seeing the world as it is, so that we can craft reasonable policy to address the problems we see.

I submit that your post does not live up to this standard because it does not see the world as it is.

Big reality point 1. The world will not fall apart if ISIS or any other terrorist du jur interrupts oil supplies in Iraq or Syria. The world has plenty of oil, a glut in fact. The price per barrel has fallen 20% in an improving world economy. That is unheard of and is a direct indication of a worldwide glut, stemming mostly from fracking.

Big Reality point 2. ISIS is not a threat to the US. It is a regional flair up that will be contained regionally and burn itself out. The leaders of ISIS might even morph into political leaders in the countries they are currently terrorizing. For far too long we have picked one evil leader over another based solely on whether we think they will be nice to us. This "policy" has cost us trillions of dollars and 10s of thousands of American lives, not to mention the devastation those policies have wrought on those we were trying to "help"

Big Reality point 3. This is not a slippery slope situation. See above.

Big Reality point 4. The only real ally we have in that region is the kurds. They are strong, also supported by Turkey and would need limited support from us to defeat any ISIS threat.

Big Reality point 5. By continuing our failed policies like you advocate, we are perpetuating the cycle of resentment and hatred for the US in that region.

Big Reality point 6. Even arguendo oil prices jump, that is not a bad thing in the long term. Absent strong government leadership promoting alternative energy (one of my biggest disappointments in the current administration), the shift to alternative energy needs oil prices to be high.

So to repeat, I respect you and your many positive positions, but on this one, I'm afraid you have it dead wrong.

But what's the point of democracy CJCRANE Sep 2014 #1
We must defend our allies. Laelth Sep 2014 #2
So we're just along for the ride? CJCRANE Sep 2014 #3
Nobody's lying here, as far as I can tell. Laelth Sep 2014 #5
A whole bunch of countries CJCRANE Sep 2014 #7
I see no evidence that "the rest of the world" sees this as absurd. Laelth Sep 2014 #8
That's just a couple of our allies. CJCRANE Sep 2014 #12
I read or watch whatever gets posted on DU and Discussionist. Laelth Sep 2014 #21
Our "European allies". Does that include the citizens of said countries CJCRANE Sep 2014 #22
The "citizens" of those countries appear to be opposed to further war. Laelth Sep 2014 #24
You make some good points but that's only part of it. CJCRANE Sep 2014 #26
I certainly expect politicians to advance the interests of the people in a republic. Laelth Sep 2014 #56
GE, Citibank, GM, Boeing, BP, Tyson Foods, KFC, Procter&Gamble leftstreet Sep 2014 #4
wow. that top pic. grahamhgreen Sep 2014 #39
Indeed....Laeth does package it beautifully....But leaves out the ugly parts... KoKo Sep 2014 #6
But you are spouting reality! MohRokTah Sep 2014 #9
Essential liberalism, as I have often argued. Laelth Sep 2014 #10
Very well said! MohRokTah Sep 2014 #11
Quite true. Laelth Sep 2014 #28
There is no doubt that mistakes were made. MohRokTah Sep 2014 #29
Agreed. Quite fully. n/t Laelth Sep 2014 #30
Damn, Laelth, this is perfect: riqster Sep 2014 #16
Thanks. n/t Laelth Sep 2014 #27
How well do you think you precieve reality? ZombieHorde Sep 2014 #46
Interesting question. Laelth Sep 2014 #50
I really like your version of liberalism. nt ZombieHorde Sep 2014 #57
Me too. Thanks. n/t Laelth Sep 2014 #58
well worth the long read. kick. Sheri Sep 2014 #13
Thanks for the kind words. n/t Laelth Sep 2014 #34
Excellent, Laelth. brer cat Sep 2014 #14
This is a delicate and complicated matter. Laelth Sep 2014 #15
Humans have been killing each other over resources since the beginning of time. Doesn't make it liberal_at_heart Sep 2014 #17
No. It doesn't. Laelth Sep 2014 #35
No, this is just another aspect of the clash of cultures. randome Sep 2014 #18
Interesting perspective. Laelth Sep 2014 #36
Uh-huh. randome Sep 2014 #48
Atrocities? Laelth Sep 2014 #55
This starts out looking informative and ends up saying absolutely nothing of consequence Maven Sep 2014 #19
In all fairness, the post isn't self-contradictory. Laelth Sep 2014 #20
Not much unless it is your family being bombed. JEB Sep 2014 #43
Violence is STILL not the way. RoccoR5955 Sep 2014 #23
It's about politics and economics. Laelth Sep 2014 #51
Like I said RoccoR5955 Sep 2014 #53
I am open to any program you have in mind ... Laelth Sep 2014 #54
UnRec bvar22 Sep 2014 #25
I'd love to hear about the "other options" you have in mind. Laelth Sep 2014 #52
You did not provide any links for the gas going from the Kurds to Europe. former9thward Sep 2014 #31
The information you seek can be found from the links below. Laelth Sep 2014 #32
Europe uses 21,000,000 barrels of oil a day. former9thward Sep 2014 #33
The post is thoughtful and locks Sep 2014 #37
The fuck? For a fraction of the cost of war(s), we could be up and running on renewable energy. grahamhgreen Sep 2014 #38
The problem for oil would be if ISIS threatened the oil production areas in southern Iraq, amandabeech Sep 2014 #40
I have great respect for you, but this post is mostly horseshit hueymahl Sep 2014 #41
Cross-post. Laelth Sep 2014 #42
Kick their ass and take their gas! J_J_ Sep 2014 #44
I think you mean Phil and Wendy Gramm, right? Bongo Prophet Sep 2014 #59
Yes, basically true. kentuck Sep 2014 #45
We need more war to win elections? ZombieHorde Sep 2014 #47
I think Laelth is trying too hard to be subtle and sarcastic. randome Sep 2014 #49
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