General Discussion

moriah

(8,312 posts)

165. If you propose it to be criminal, then you're doing the same thing the Republicans are doing...

Mon Sep 15, 2014, 01:22 AM

Sep 2014

.... by charging women who had drug or alcohol addictions during pregnancy for damage to their children. I've heard a lot of people here argue against that policy. I know tobacco is the Evil Weed, but I've yet to see it cause severe mental retardation like alcohol can do during pregnancy.

This is coming from a person with very strong stances about what women should and should not do while pregnant -- my little brother and sister will never live independently as a result of their egg donor's prenatal substance abuse. If i ever met the woman, I would have a hard time restraining myself from at the very least cussing her up one side and down the other.

But calling it child abuse suggests it should be criminal, and I do not believe in criminalizing women for the outcomes of their pregnancy even if they are substance abusers. Even if I want to beat the shit out of them for being so fucking selfish.

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Another form of child abuse: smoking while pregnant. [View all] MoonRiver Sep 2014 OP

No, there is DUer who disagrees with you. Smoking while pregnant causes no issues..... Logical Sep 2014 #1

... MoonRiver Sep 2014 #2

Really a clueless poster. No facts, just what they believe. nt Logical Sep 2014 #3

Wonder if s/he is a smoker? MoonRiver Sep 2014 #5

Not to pry Mojorabbit Sep 2014 #117

Not to our knowledge. MoonRiver Sep 2014 #124

Calling a fetus a child in the OP has a lot to do with that. uppityperson Sep 2014 #134

I think that smoking during pregnancy is not a smart thing to do yeoman6987 Sep 2014 #8

Society in general has come to believe this treestar Sep 2014 #11

Absolutely yeoman6987 Sep 2014 #15

I completely accept a woman's right to choose to smoke during pregnancy. MoonRiver Sep 2014 #32

I hope you don't think I was calling you out at all yeoman6987 Sep 2014 #33

I didn't think that yeoman. MoonRiver Sep 2014 #49

You did so implicitly right in your title. NutmegYankee Sep 2014 #68

I agree to disagree with you. Smoking while pregnant is NOT a crime. MoonRiver Sep 2014 #69

"however you choose to define it" JTFrog Sep 2014 #70

My OP was NEVER about abortion. MoonRiver Sep 2014 #75

Then you should never have used the wording you did in your OP. JTFrog Sep 2014 #77

Did I ever say those women should or shouldn't carry a child to term? MoonRiver Sep 2014 #81

Words mean things. PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #78

Was the word abortion in my OP? MoonRiver Sep 2014 #79

. PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #82

So a 7-9 month old fetus is still a lump of cells? RandySF Sep 2014 #156

I haven't used that term once. You're the only one who has in this thread. PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #159

I will never agree to call smoking while pregnant child abuse. NutmegYankee Sep 2014 #74

Thank you. PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #76

+++++++++++++++++ uppityperson Sep 2014 #135

slip meets slope: might I add that a fetus is not a child. elehhhhna Sep 2014 #110

See post 74. NutmegYankee Sep 2014 #116

SMH merrily Sep 2014 #4

Even though I'd guess at least half or more of the kids I grew up with had mothers that smoked brewens Sep 2014 #179

So, are you proposing they be criminally charged? PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #6

No, eating bad is not like smoking. Simple. nt Logical Sep 2014 #9

Answer the other questions, please. PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #10

I agree with you. jen63 Sep 2014 #12

Of course I don't propose that. MoonRiver Sep 2014 #16

you called it "child abuse". that is crime. PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #19

Many kinds of destructive behavior toward oneself and others are not crimes. MoonRiver Sep 2014 #35

mmm hmm PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #38

Back at ya dear. MoonRiver Sep 2014 #52

But you weren't just calling it destructive in your OP. LisaLynne Sep 2014 #80

A fetus carried to term is a child. MoonRiver Sep 2014 #83

You also said this about your sister's case: JTFrog Sep 2014 #84

You were asking why there was so much ... LisaLynne Sep 2014 #85

Child abuse is a legal term. And you're desperately grasping it rather than look through eyes PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #86

Child abuse is a term, used in many contexts. MoonRiver Sep 2014 #89

You're a man, aren't ya? PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #91

No, I am a woman. MoonRiver Sep 2014 #93

Again with "it does" vs "it can". uppityperson Sep 2014 #139

Do you support initiatives like this one for tobacco? moriah Sep 2014 #167

While it is certainly medically unsound ... surrealAmerican Sep 2014 #7

society will end up paying the costs treestar Sep 2014 #14

No one said the mother should be punished. MoonRiver Sep 2014 #18

Calling it "child abuse" implies that it should be punished. surrealAmerican Sep 2014 #23

That may be your take. It is not mine. MoonRiver Sep 2014 #37

you should edit or delete your offensive title. PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #24

Maybe you should just move along. Ignore is your friend, friend. MoonRiver Sep 2014 #39

nope. PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #41

Ok, then. MoonRiver Sep 2014 #44

"Smoking harms the fetus" is wrong. It CAN, not it DOES. uppityperson Sep 2014 #133

How is this child abuse? etherealtruth Sep 2014 #13

I NEVER said it was a crime. MoonRiver Sep 2014 #20

Child abuse is a crime etherealtruth Sep 2014 #21

yes, you did. child abuse is a crime. PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #22

People can do many things to each other without those acts being considered crimes. MoonRiver Sep 2014 #25

your thread title is disgusting PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #27

Once again, ignore is your friend, my overly sensitive friend. MoonRiver Sep 2014 #40

back atcha PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #42

Whatever MoonRiver Sep 2014 #47

Why post it if you are going to ask people to ignore it? JTFrog Sep 2014 #51

Why read if you are so offended? MoonRiver Sep 2014 #54

Because people don't let inappropriate and insensitive posts sit and fester around here. JTFrog Sep 2014 #55

I'm not ignoring you. MoonRiver Sep 2014 #56

But you are. JTFrog Sep 2014 #57

I am arguing my points. That does not equate with ignoring. MoonRiver Sep 2014 #59

Well you are definitely in a lopsided debate. JTFrog Sep 2014 #61

OMG, you really think that is what I am trying to do??????????????? MoonRiver Sep 2014 #88

You're Not Arguing Your Point ProfessorGAC Sep 2014 #171

Your title of "Another form child abuse.." in context the Peterson case needs to be addressed. PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #58

I never said it had anything to do with the Peterson case. That would be because it doesn't. MoonRiver Sep 2014 #62

Why the heck Dorian Gray Sep 2014 #172

Child abuse is a crime etherealtruth Sep 2014 #36

Do you think feeding a child candy all day is a crime? MoonRiver Sep 2014 #53

You know you have used a term that indicates it is a crime etherealtruth Sep 2014 #60

It's not a crime. I never said that. MoonRiver Sep 2014 #63

the term "child abuse" indicates it is a crime etherealtruth Sep 2014 #64

Your choice to interpret the phrase that way, in context of my OP. MoonRiver Sep 2014 #66

A fetus is not a child. JTFrog Sep 2014 #67

A fetus is not a child. MoonRiver Sep 2014 #71

Then obviously your OP title is wrong and insensitive. JTFrog Sep 2014 #72

Exactly. Words mean things. PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #73

Wrong again. They "MAY" have issues. Not "WILL" have issues. uppityperson Sep 2014 #138

And the poster Dorian Gray Sep 2014 #173

child in daycare while you work or go to school, then not paying enough attention is child abuse? uppityperson Sep 2014 #137

I agree. LuvNewcastle Sep 2014 #28

what about caffeine intake? hair dye? changing litter box? PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #17

If those things are shown to be dangerous to the fetus, MoonRiver Sep 2014 #26

hint: they are PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #30

Smoking while pregnant is considered a crime? MoonRiver Sep 2014 #43

those other activities i asked about are detrimental fetal development PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #45

I asked you if they are crimes. MoonRiver Sep 2014 #48

no, you didn't PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #50

Part of me wants to alert the OP or beg them to change the thread title. KittyWampus Sep 2014 #29

it's disgusting PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #31

Request the author do it first yeoman6987 Sep 2014 #34

I have. PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #46

No in the OP Dorian Gray Sep 2014 #174

It's the continuing effort to make the fetus into a "child" in law. NutmegYankee Sep 2014 #65

Jury results: B2G Sep 2014 #95

nuff said? MoonRiver Sep 2014 #96

Plenty. Lol. B2G Sep 2014 #97

+1 to every single one of those votes. nt Union Scribe Sep 2014 #166

I dunno about child abuse. Inkfreak Sep 2014 #87

Yep. MoonRiver Sep 2014 #90

No, sorry. You don't get to play victim here. Your thread title is inflammatory in the extreme KittyWampus Sep 2014 #92

I won't change it because it has NOTHING to do with anti-choice or women's issues. MoonRiver Sep 2014 #94

+1 n/t JTFrog Sep 2014 #98

A jury of your peers voted 0-7 to leave my OP alone. MoonRiver Sep 2014 #99

That the jury system is flawed. JTFrog Sep 2014 #100

Amen. And that the OP takes "obstinate" to a new level. PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #102

Indeed. JTFrog Sep 2014 #112

The jury system is flawed. That you refuse to make a very simple amendment says volumes KittyWampus Sep 2014 #107

Color me guilty MoonRiver Sep 2014 #118

Not only stupid, but also selfish and cruel. Maedhros Sep 2014 #106

As several people have said above, kiva Sep 2014 #101

So if a man kills a pregnant woman B2G Sep 2014 #103

Because some state have chosen to play with kiva Sep 2014 #104

But if a woman is 7-9 months pregnant, B2G Sep 2014 #108

And if tests reveal that a 7 to 9 month fetus kiva Sep 2014 #144

Only 12 states don't have such laws on the books. B2G Sep 2014 #113

That is a direct effect of the effort to gives fetuses personhood to eventually criminalize abortion NutmegYankee Sep 2014 #120

I am firmly pro choice, but B2G Sep 2014 #122

This is a Democratic board filled with pro-choice members. NutmegYankee Sep 2014 #127

That abusers are not just men? PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #111

Sorry, were you responding to me? kiva Sep 2014 #146

Yes, I was speculating with you on the purpose the inflammatory op title. PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #147

Ah, got it. kiva Sep 2014 #157

This trend of criminalizing deathrind Sep 2014 #105

Did you read the story a few weeks ago about a school that was swarmed by police because a girl KittyWampus Sep 2014 #109

Yes- I saw that story. deathrind Sep 2014 #114

DU is surreal sometimes LittleBlue Sep 2014 #115

You have to look at the history of a woman's right to choose. NutmegYankee Sep 2014 #119

Thank you for your participation in this thread. For real. PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #121

You're welcome. NutmegYankee Sep 2014 #125

+ infinity etherealtruth Sep 2014 #126

Can we respect a woman's right to choose LittleBlue Sep 2014 #141

We can have that conversation .... etherealtruth Sep 2014 #142

I come to expect this anymore Puzzledtraveller Sep 2014 #123

are you saying we shouldn't be outraged by calling a fetus a child & casting preganant women's KittyWampus Sep 2014 #129

Yes, ignore poster, put on ignore and move on. Puzzledtraveller Sep 2014 #145

Or, seeing how this a "discussion board", we can voice our opinions as much as we'd like. PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #149

By all means Puzzledtraveller Sep 2014 #151

of course it's discussing. PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #152

DU jumped the shark a while ago distantearlywarning Sep 2014 #140

Indeed, it's not liberal at all IMO. Puzzledtraveller Sep 2014 #148

Nope. Anti-choice rhetoric isn't liberal all. PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #153

No one is defending a pregnant woman smoking and drinking NO ONE. You mischaracterize KittyWampus Sep 2014 #128

The issue is that it's called "child abuse" gollygee Sep 2014 #136

Your thread title is wrong. It is not "child abuse." Demit Sep 2014 #130

If we criminalize women smoking Erich Bloodaxe BSN Sep 2014 #131

No, it is not. It may not be the best thing to do and MAY impact the fetus, but a fetus is NOT uppityperson Sep 2014 #132

my siblings and I were born in the 50s KT2000 Sep 2014 #143

not sure about "child" abuse - definitely fetus abuse, however DrDan Sep 2014 #150

But fetus will become a child. LisaL Sep 2014 #164

Ah, the word "potentially" justiceischeap Sep 2014 #175

I did not argue against the "abuse" part - just the fetus vs child part DrDan Sep 2014 #188

no, its not. a fetus is not a child and therefore it is not child abuse. nt La Lioness Priyanka Sep 2014 #154

These discussions are enlightening RandySF Sep 2014 #155

What do you think should be done about coke and heroine users who are pregnant? uppityperson Sep 2014 #158

Addiction should be considered a disease, not a crime. NutmegYankee Sep 2014 #160

I agree. Number23 Sep 2014 #162

I would say more disquieting than enlightening. Union Scribe Sep 2014 #168

Coke and heroine are illegal gollygee Sep 2014 #185

My mom smoked throughout her pregnancy with me (and I assume my older sisters) justiceischeap Sep 2014 #161

Drinking while pregnant can cause Fetal Alcohol Syndrome. LisaL Sep 2014 #163

In 1971, FAS wasn't even recognized justiceischeap Sep 2014 #170

Sounds like you were born addicted to nicotine. I believe I was, as well (2nd hand, in my case.) nt Romulox Sep 2014 #178

If I wasn't born addicted, I became addicted due to 2nd hand. justiceischeap Sep 2014 #180

I have a similar background. Those great wafts of blue-grey smoke just became part Romulox Sep 2014 #181

If you propose it to be criminal, then you're doing the same thing the Republicans are doing... moriah Sep 2014 #165

I guess no one told WebMD the permissible word is fetus Union Scribe Sep 2014 #169

"AFTER YOUR BABY IS BORN". But I see throughout this thread you agree with rightwing anti-choice KittyWampus Sep 2014 #186

It's a funny thing DonCoquixote Sep 2014 #176

nobody. not one person did that in thread. PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #177

Where exactly are people defending smoking? kiva Sep 2014 #182

anti immigrant, pro salvery? DonCoquixote Sep 2014 #183

You think this is about defending smoking? gollygee Sep 2014 #184

WTF? This isn't about smoking or cigarettes. It's about calling a fetus a child and behavior while KittyWampus Sep 2014 #187