General Discussion

justiceischeap

(14,040 posts)

175. Ah, the word "potentially"

Mon Sep 15, 2014, 06:25 AM

Sep 2014

Let's criminalize everything that could "potentially" harm a fetus. That'd be fun. May as well put women in gestation crates.

There are many of us alive and well today born from mothers that did things many think egregious now.

My mother smoked and drank (the horror--I know you take exception with this). I was born with no developmental issues. I actually have been tested and have a higher than average IQ. My bad, bad mother's drinking may have potentially caused me from reaching genius level IQ. I showed no behavioral issues as a child--I was actually a good, quiet child.

But you want to criminalize (or so it seems) things that could "potentially" harm a fetus. So, whose the first to go to jail? Poor mothers who don't take vitamins? That could potentially harm a fetus.

How about women who gain too much weight or not enough? That could potentially be harmful to a fetus.

Woman drivers--let's criminalize driving (or riding in) a car because a woman could potentially get in an accident and potentially harm the fetus.

Where does this insanity start and stop?

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Another form of child abuse: smoking while pregnant. [View all] MoonRiver Sep 2014 OP

No, there is DUer who disagrees with you. Smoking while pregnant causes no issues..... Logical Sep 2014 #1

... MoonRiver Sep 2014 #2

Really a clueless poster. No facts, just what they believe. nt Logical Sep 2014 #3

Wonder if s/he is a smoker? MoonRiver Sep 2014 #5

Not to pry Mojorabbit Sep 2014 #117

Not to our knowledge. MoonRiver Sep 2014 #124

Calling a fetus a child in the OP has a lot to do with that. uppityperson Sep 2014 #134

I think that smoking during pregnancy is not a smart thing to do yeoman6987 Sep 2014 #8

Society in general has come to believe this treestar Sep 2014 #11

Absolutely yeoman6987 Sep 2014 #15

I completely accept a woman's right to choose to smoke during pregnancy. MoonRiver Sep 2014 #32

I hope you don't think I was calling you out at all yeoman6987 Sep 2014 #33

I didn't think that yeoman. MoonRiver Sep 2014 #49

You did so implicitly right in your title. NutmegYankee Sep 2014 #68

I agree to disagree with you. Smoking while pregnant is NOT a crime. MoonRiver Sep 2014 #69

"however you choose to define it" JTFrog Sep 2014 #70

My OP was NEVER about abortion. MoonRiver Sep 2014 #75

Then you should never have used the wording you did in your OP. JTFrog Sep 2014 #77

Did I ever say those women should or shouldn't carry a child to term? MoonRiver Sep 2014 #81

Words mean things. PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #78

Was the word abortion in my OP? MoonRiver Sep 2014 #79

. PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #82

So a 7-9 month old fetus is still a lump of cells? RandySF Sep 2014 #156

I haven't used that term once. You're the only one who has in this thread. PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #159

I will never agree to call smoking while pregnant child abuse. NutmegYankee Sep 2014 #74

Thank you. PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #76

+++++++++++++++++ uppityperson Sep 2014 #135

slip meets slope: might I add that a fetus is not a child. elehhhhna Sep 2014 #110

See post 74. NutmegYankee Sep 2014 #116

SMH merrily Sep 2014 #4

Even though I'd guess at least half or more of the kids I grew up with had mothers that smoked brewens Sep 2014 #179

So, are you proposing they be criminally charged? PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #6

No, eating bad is not like smoking. Simple. nt Logical Sep 2014 #9

Answer the other questions, please. PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #10

I agree with you. jen63 Sep 2014 #12

Of course I don't propose that. MoonRiver Sep 2014 #16

you called it "child abuse". that is crime. PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #19

Many kinds of destructive behavior toward oneself and others are not crimes. MoonRiver Sep 2014 #35

mmm hmm PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #38

Back at ya dear. MoonRiver Sep 2014 #52

But you weren't just calling it destructive in your OP. LisaLynne Sep 2014 #80

A fetus carried to term is a child. MoonRiver Sep 2014 #83

You also said this about your sister's case: JTFrog Sep 2014 #84

You were asking why there was so much ... LisaLynne Sep 2014 #85

Child abuse is a legal term. And you're desperately grasping it rather than look through eyes PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #86

Child abuse is a term, used in many contexts. MoonRiver Sep 2014 #89

You're a man, aren't ya? PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #91

No, I am a woman. MoonRiver Sep 2014 #93

Again with "it does" vs "it can". uppityperson Sep 2014 #139

Do you support initiatives like this one for tobacco? moriah Sep 2014 #167

While it is certainly medically unsound ... surrealAmerican Sep 2014 #7

society will end up paying the costs treestar Sep 2014 #14

No one said the mother should be punished. MoonRiver Sep 2014 #18

Calling it "child abuse" implies that it should be punished. surrealAmerican Sep 2014 #23

That may be your take. It is not mine. MoonRiver Sep 2014 #37

you should edit or delete your offensive title. PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #24

Maybe you should just move along. Ignore is your friend, friend. MoonRiver Sep 2014 #39

nope. PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #41

Ok, then. MoonRiver Sep 2014 #44

"Smoking harms the fetus" is wrong. It CAN, not it DOES. uppityperson Sep 2014 #133

How is this child abuse? etherealtruth Sep 2014 #13

I NEVER said it was a crime. MoonRiver Sep 2014 #20

Child abuse is a crime etherealtruth Sep 2014 #21

yes, you did. child abuse is a crime. PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #22

People can do many things to each other without those acts being considered crimes. MoonRiver Sep 2014 #25

your thread title is disgusting PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #27

Once again, ignore is your friend, my overly sensitive friend. MoonRiver Sep 2014 #40

back atcha PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #42

Whatever MoonRiver Sep 2014 #47

Why post it if you are going to ask people to ignore it? JTFrog Sep 2014 #51

Why read if you are so offended? MoonRiver Sep 2014 #54

Because people don't let inappropriate and insensitive posts sit and fester around here. JTFrog Sep 2014 #55

I'm not ignoring you. MoonRiver Sep 2014 #56

But you are. JTFrog Sep 2014 #57

I am arguing my points. That does not equate with ignoring. MoonRiver Sep 2014 #59

Well you are definitely in a lopsided debate. JTFrog Sep 2014 #61

OMG, you really think that is what I am trying to do??????????????? MoonRiver Sep 2014 #88

You're Not Arguing Your Point ProfessorGAC Sep 2014 #171

Your title of "Another form child abuse.." in context the Peterson case needs to be addressed. PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #58

I never said it had anything to do with the Peterson case. That would be because it doesn't. MoonRiver Sep 2014 #62

Why the heck Dorian Gray Sep 2014 #172

Child abuse is a crime etherealtruth Sep 2014 #36

Do you think feeding a child candy all day is a crime? MoonRiver Sep 2014 #53

You know you have used a term that indicates it is a crime etherealtruth Sep 2014 #60

It's not a crime. I never said that. MoonRiver Sep 2014 #63

the term "child abuse" indicates it is a crime etherealtruth Sep 2014 #64

Your choice to interpret the phrase that way, in context of my OP. MoonRiver Sep 2014 #66

A fetus is not a child. JTFrog Sep 2014 #67

A fetus is not a child. MoonRiver Sep 2014 #71

Then obviously your OP title is wrong and insensitive. JTFrog Sep 2014 #72

Exactly. Words mean things. PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #73

Wrong again. They "MAY" have issues. Not "WILL" have issues. uppityperson Sep 2014 #138

And the poster Dorian Gray Sep 2014 #173

child in daycare while you work or go to school, then not paying enough attention is child abuse? uppityperson Sep 2014 #137

I agree. LuvNewcastle Sep 2014 #28

what about caffeine intake? hair dye? changing litter box? PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #17

If those things are shown to be dangerous to the fetus, MoonRiver Sep 2014 #26

hint: they are PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #30

Smoking while pregnant is considered a crime? MoonRiver Sep 2014 #43

those other activities i asked about are detrimental fetal development PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #45

I asked you if they are crimes. MoonRiver Sep 2014 #48

no, you didn't PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #50

Part of me wants to alert the OP or beg them to change the thread title. KittyWampus Sep 2014 #29

it's disgusting PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #31

Request the author do it first yeoman6987 Sep 2014 #34

I have. PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #46

No in the OP Dorian Gray Sep 2014 #174

It's the continuing effort to make the fetus into a "child" in law. NutmegYankee Sep 2014 #65

Jury results: B2G Sep 2014 #95

nuff said? MoonRiver Sep 2014 #96

Plenty. Lol. B2G Sep 2014 #97

+1 to every single one of those votes. nt Union Scribe Sep 2014 #166

I dunno about child abuse. Inkfreak Sep 2014 #87

Yep. MoonRiver Sep 2014 #90

No, sorry. You don't get to play victim here. Your thread title is inflammatory in the extreme KittyWampus Sep 2014 #92

I won't change it because it has NOTHING to do with anti-choice or women's issues. MoonRiver Sep 2014 #94

+1 n/t JTFrog Sep 2014 #98

A jury of your peers voted 0-7 to leave my OP alone. MoonRiver Sep 2014 #99

That the jury system is flawed. JTFrog Sep 2014 #100

Amen. And that the OP takes "obstinate" to a new level. PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #102

Indeed. JTFrog Sep 2014 #112

The jury system is flawed. That you refuse to make a very simple amendment says volumes KittyWampus Sep 2014 #107

Color me guilty MoonRiver Sep 2014 #118

Not only stupid, but also selfish and cruel. Maedhros Sep 2014 #106

As several people have said above, kiva Sep 2014 #101

So if a man kills a pregnant woman B2G Sep 2014 #103

Because some state have chosen to play with kiva Sep 2014 #104

But if a woman is 7-9 months pregnant, B2G Sep 2014 #108

And if tests reveal that a 7 to 9 month fetus kiva Sep 2014 #144

Only 12 states don't have such laws on the books. B2G Sep 2014 #113

That is a direct effect of the effort to gives fetuses personhood to eventually criminalize abortion NutmegYankee Sep 2014 #120

I am firmly pro choice, but B2G Sep 2014 #122

This is a Democratic board filled with pro-choice members. NutmegYankee Sep 2014 #127

That abusers are not just men? PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #111

Sorry, were you responding to me? kiva Sep 2014 #146

Yes, I was speculating with you on the purpose the inflammatory op title. PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #147

Ah, got it. kiva Sep 2014 #157

This trend of criminalizing deathrind Sep 2014 #105

Did you read the story a few weeks ago about a school that was swarmed by police because a girl KittyWampus Sep 2014 #109

Yes- I saw that story. deathrind Sep 2014 #114

DU is surreal sometimes LittleBlue Sep 2014 #115

You have to look at the history of a woman's right to choose. NutmegYankee Sep 2014 #119

Thank you for your participation in this thread. For real. PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #121

You're welcome. NutmegYankee Sep 2014 #125

+ infinity etherealtruth Sep 2014 #126

Can we respect a woman's right to choose LittleBlue Sep 2014 #141

We can have that conversation .... etherealtruth Sep 2014 #142

I come to expect this anymore Puzzledtraveller Sep 2014 #123

are you saying we shouldn't be outraged by calling a fetus a child & casting preganant women's KittyWampus Sep 2014 #129

Yes, ignore poster, put on ignore and move on. Puzzledtraveller Sep 2014 #145

Or, seeing how this a "discussion board", we can voice our opinions as much as we'd like. PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #149

By all means Puzzledtraveller Sep 2014 #151

of course it's discussing. PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #152

DU jumped the shark a while ago distantearlywarning Sep 2014 #140

Indeed, it's not liberal at all IMO. Puzzledtraveller Sep 2014 #148

Nope. Anti-choice rhetoric isn't liberal all. PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #153

No one is defending a pregnant woman smoking and drinking NO ONE. You mischaracterize KittyWampus Sep 2014 #128

The issue is that it's called "child abuse" gollygee Sep 2014 #136

Your thread title is wrong. It is not "child abuse." Demit Sep 2014 #130

If we criminalize women smoking Erich Bloodaxe BSN Sep 2014 #131

No, it is not. It may not be the best thing to do and MAY impact the fetus, but a fetus is NOT uppityperson Sep 2014 #132

my siblings and I were born in the 50s KT2000 Sep 2014 #143

not sure about "child" abuse - definitely fetus abuse, however DrDan Sep 2014 #150

But fetus will become a child. LisaL Sep 2014 #164

Ah, the word "potentially" justiceischeap Sep 2014 #175

I did not argue against the "abuse" part - just the fetus vs child part DrDan Sep 2014 #188

no, its not. a fetus is not a child and therefore it is not child abuse. nt La Lioness Priyanka Sep 2014 #154

These discussions are enlightening RandySF Sep 2014 #155

What do you think should be done about coke and heroine users who are pregnant? uppityperson Sep 2014 #158

Addiction should be considered a disease, not a crime. NutmegYankee Sep 2014 #160

I agree. Number23 Sep 2014 #162

I would say more disquieting than enlightening. Union Scribe Sep 2014 #168

Coke and heroine are illegal gollygee Sep 2014 #185

My mom smoked throughout her pregnancy with me (and I assume my older sisters) justiceischeap Sep 2014 #161

Drinking while pregnant can cause Fetal Alcohol Syndrome. LisaL Sep 2014 #163

In 1971, FAS wasn't even recognized justiceischeap Sep 2014 #170

Sounds like you were born addicted to nicotine. I believe I was, as well (2nd hand, in my case.) nt Romulox Sep 2014 #178

If I wasn't born addicted, I became addicted due to 2nd hand. justiceischeap Sep 2014 #180

I have a similar background. Those great wafts of blue-grey smoke just became part Romulox Sep 2014 #181

If you propose it to be criminal, then you're doing the same thing the Republicans are doing... moriah Sep 2014 #165

I guess no one told WebMD the permissible word is fetus Union Scribe Sep 2014 #169

"AFTER YOUR BABY IS BORN". But I see throughout this thread you agree with rightwing anti-choice KittyWampus Sep 2014 #186

It's a funny thing DonCoquixote Sep 2014 #176

nobody. not one person did that in thread. PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #177

Where exactly are people defending smoking? kiva Sep 2014 #182

anti immigrant, pro salvery? DonCoquixote Sep 2014 #183

You think this is about defending smoking? gollygee Sep 2014 #184

WTF? This isn't about smoking or cigarettes. It's about calling a fetus a child and behavior while KittyWampus Sep 2014 #187