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125. Human fetuses are human but not persons

Reply to happyslug (Reply #102)

Mon Sep 15, 2014, 07:23 PM

Sep 2014

Human fetuses can hardly be anything other than human, but that doesn't make them a human being. Birth does.

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A Fetus Is Not A Child [View all] KittyWampus Sep 2014 OP

EXCELLENT post! etherealtruth Sep 2014 #1

Call it what you want. As a matter of law, when does it acquire its right to life? badtoworse Sep 2014 #2

According to my mother, after they finish graduate school. eggplant Sep 2014 #20

legal rights don't exist for an individual until after he/she is born cali Sep 2014 #21

How do you explain the Laci Peterson Case? badtoworse Sep 2014 #59

It wasn't the court recognizing the fetus's right to life, it was how the state legislature defined Shrike47 Sep 2014 #78

Legal rights exist after birth. uppityperson Sep 2014 #28

When they can live outside the womb on their own. onecaliberal Sep 2014 #36

How about a preemie who is on a ventilator? philosslayer Sep 2014 #157

You know exactly what I meant onecaliberal Sep 2014 #173

Viability. As a matter of law. LiberalAndProud Sep 2014 #42

That's how it is in my state LittleBlue Sep 2014 #70

It acquires its Right to Life jbeing Sep 2014 #49

Welcome to DU, jbeing! calimary Sep 2014 #172

3rd Trimester essentially NT broadcaster75201 Sep 2014 #52

I would say when it can exist independent of the woman's body. . . n/t annabanana Sep 2014 #144

There is medical terminolgy and B2G Sep 2014 #3

probably sound biological reasons for a mother to see a fetus as a child JUST as KittyWampus Sep 2014 #5

something I wrote on another site... handmade34 Sep 2014 #4

I understand where you are coming from and it's beautifully written/expressed. KittyWampus Sep 2014 #6

I think at the point where it is reasonably expected to survive independently, outside of the womb, Nye Bevan Sep 2014 #7

No, sorry. Can no longer support that. Because the far-right uses that to try and ban late term KittyWampus Sep 2014 #10

I don't allow the right-wingers to dictate how I think about things (nt) Nye Bevan Sep 2014 #17

Women's Rights Advocates don't have the luxury of ignoring rightwing tactics or encouraging KittyWampus Sep 2014 #77

Thank you Nye Puzzledtraveller Sep 2014 #122

That would put it at about 12 or 13 Major Nikon Sep 2014 #44

You do know that "synthetic wombs" (aka artificial uteruses) do not actually exist? Nye Bevan Sep 2014 #75

They do actually exist Major Nikon Sep 2014 #109

Viability is still defined as the ability to live outside the womb. Real or artificial. PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #84

There's a good reason why Ruth Bader Ginsburg now rejects viability as a meaningful standard Major Nikon Sep 2014 #110

viability is viability and that hasn't changed magically from 1973 to now... CTyankee Sep 2014 #114

No magic to it, really Major Nikon Sep 2014 #128

are you talking about babies born prematurely than can live without medical CTyankee Sep 2014 #139

Here's what I'm talking about Major Nikon Sep 2014 #148

what was not considered at the time of the Roe decision was whether science would essentially CTyankee Sep 2014 #149

No matter how it's framed it still boils down to forcing a person to be an incubator Major Nikon Sep 2014 #152

Surviving outside the womb without millions of dollars worth of technology? progressoid Sep 2014 #74

all true. the only place I disagree with you is your assertion cali Sep 2014 #8

Thank you for this and your participation in that other thread. PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #9

Thank you Thank you Thank you BrotherIvan Sep 2014 #11

K & R SunSeeker Sep 2014 #12

K&R kiva Sep 2014 #13

"Why do mothers care more abou their born children than their unborn children?" HockeyMom Sep 2014 #14

Biology vs. religious beliefs. Avalux Sep 2014 #15

Not all religions conflate fetus and baby. DeadLetterOffice Sep 2014 #67

can you imagine what would happen if the legal definition procon Sep 2014 #16

K&R ismnotwasm Sep 2014 #18

Even the Bible says a fetus is not a child ErikJ Sep 2014 #19

Excellent post! Bravo! hifiguy Sep 2014 #22

I agree 100% get the red out Sep 2014 #23

With what would you specifically want to see a mugger charged with if say he punched frankieallen Sep 2014 #24

I see only one victim in that scenario--the woman. nt valerief Sep 2014 #31

This ^ PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #39

^^THIS^^^. Yes, fetal homicide laws are to punish pregnant women. nt valerief Sep 2014 #48

Should Scott Peterson have been convicted of one murder or two? lumberjack_jeff Sep 2014 #80

one. an aggravated one. PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #92

At least two crimes committed against his wife REP Sep 2014 #123

Duh, one, of course. nt valerief Sep 2014 #126

And if that same women needed a late term abortion, what specifically would you want to see her uppityperson Sep 2014 #32

"needed"..... apples and oranges as far as the scenario I posed. But to answer your frankieallen Sep 2014 #47

Thank you. Now, what if she wanted one, but not because her life was at risk? uppityperson Sep 2014 #58

please be more specific, what kind of abnormality are we talking about? frankieallen Sep 2014 #141

I thought you people were against big government, so why are you forcing the government valerief Sep 2014 #142

Did you make your reply offensive on purpose or was it just badly worded? uppityperson Sep 2014 #159

Relax, the ugly comment was in response to your poorly worded reply. Let me ask you a question frankieallen Sep 2014 #166

Yes, I can answer. uppityperson Sep 2014 #168

Apples and oranges Major Nikon Sep 2014 #161

An aggravated crime against the woman, which it is. This is a typical RW tactic. PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #38

Of course an 8 month old fetus is a baby. Nye Bevan Sep 2014 #76

Fighting for Women's Reproductive Rights necessitates not calling a fetus a baby. KittyWampus Sep 2014 #81

People saying stupid things like denying that an 8-month old fetus is a baby Nye Bevan Sep 2014 #82

My position isn't stupid. I don't appreciate your calling it stupid. It's a necessity in the face KittyWampus Sep 2014 #86

It's not a baby until it's born. Neoma Sep 2014 #100

Wrong. It is a fetus. A 10 month old fetus is still a fetus. ncjustice80 Sep 2014 #88

I agree completely. newcriminal Sep 2014 #133

I was reading a story a few years ago about a young woman who died after an Rozlee Sep 2014 #25

12th week stage? not month. And yes, I have helped women who ran across those jerks also. uppityperson Sep 2014 #33

Gah! Yep, twelve weeks, not months. Rozlee Sep 2014 #35

K&R. tosh Sep 2014 #26

I still think if the mother thinks it's a child, it's a child. moriah Sep 2014 #27

My position is that the far right and their escalating tactics make using that rhetoric KittyWampus Sep 2014 #83

I understand, I just don't want to ever offend someone accidentally, and i just know.... moriah Sep 2014 #90

Agreed. People are not people until their asses need wiping. valerief Sep 2014 #29

what I've been saying for ages is that the talking point from the start should have been BlancheSplanchnik Sep 2014 #30

K&R ReRe Sep 2014 #34

Very well put! logosoco Sep 2014 #37

Roe v. Wade assumes it is jberryhill Sep 2014 #40

That's such a typical anti-choice argument. Nobody is saying it's not a 'life'. PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #43

I don't see how Roe v. Wade is "anti-choice" jberryhill Sep 2014 #45

Your argument is, not Roe v Wade. NOBODY said it wasn't 'a life'. PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #46

Then what difference does it make? jberryhill Sep 2014 #50

Because, what a woman does when pregnant is not "child abuse". That's what the difference is. PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #51

Still doesn't make a bit of legal difference jberryhill Sep 2014 #53

The OP was in context of discussion on DU, not Podunk or the law PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #62

It adopts an anti-choice false dichotomy jberryhill Sep 2014 #136

Does a fetus being a "human life" mean it is a child? uppityperson Sep 2014 #57

I think you and I may have had this discussion before, but I've got a weird issue on intellectual... moriah Sep 2014 #99

That was well worded, good job. uppityperson Sep 2014 #104

Oh dear Rex Sep 2014 #119

I remember being aghast reading Roe v Wade, very different than I thought it was uppityperson Sep 2014 #120

I went to my own personal archives on this one-I posted about it in 2006 while pregnant w/twins. IdaBriggs Sep 2014 #41

Thank you, and this is what I mean when I refer to a fetus as a child. moriah Sep 2014 #56

I think (for us) using the "medically correct" term would have been a way of "distancing" IdaBriggs Sep 2014 #61

Thank you! VA_Jill Sep 2014 #54

So you oppose charging assailants with murder in cases closeupready Sep 2014 #55

Absolutely. Yes, it's an aggravated crime against a woman. PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #63

I also believe we need to stop saying locdlib Sep 2014 #60

Why aren't the right-to-lifers railing against fertility clinics? houston_radical Sep 2014 #64

Some have, here is the Catholic Position on Fertility clinics: happyslug Sep 2014 #68

I think this is a very interesting subject. ZombieHorde Sep 2014 #65

This was honestly a good post. AverageJoe90 Sep 2014 #66

Message auto-removed Name removed Sep 2014 #69

I really don't think you're in a position to tell anyone here what they should post theHandpuppet Sep 2014 #71

Go be sick elsewhere. PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #73

Welcome to DU. At what point in time does a fetus become a child? uppityperson Sep 2014 #79

a fetus is not a child handmade34 Sep 2014 #87

WRONG. A fetus is NOT a child. BlueCaliDem Sep 2014 #89

Who were the 5 people that voted to keep this troll's post? moriah Sep 2014 #91

my alert. not position to post results right now PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #93

The Point In Time After Which It Is A Child Is Birth.... The Magistrate Sep 2014 #94

+1 to title. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Sep 2014 #124

A fetus is made into a child by a willing mother Tumbulu Sep 2014 #96

You've got an opinion. Feral Child Sep 2014 #98

She is within TOS JustAnotherGen Sep 2014 #106

always the giver.... seabeyond Sep 2014 #107

So who gets to choose when that time is? Major Nikon Sep 2014 #112

sorry to burst mercuryblues Sep 2014 #113

No,- fetus is human tissue ismnotwasm Sep 2014 #115

4 hours mercuryblues Sep 2014 #118

I'm debating it. n/t tazkcmo Sep 2014 #131

"A Fetus Is Not A Child" rock Sep 2014 #72

I should write a book on what it's like to grow up an unwanted child! Dont call me Shirley Sep 2014 #85

you assume they care about children. they don't. PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #95

I assumed they did not care about children. I assumed they know not of care at all. Dont call me Shirley Sep 2014 #101

Stop sounding so guilty. This debate is so damned cringeworthy LittleBlue Sep 2014 #97

many many women are happy and grateful for their abortions, so NOPE. not every fetus should bettyellen Sep 2014 #103

That isn't what I'm taking about at all LittleBlue Sep 2014 #108

Nope- words are important and I agree with the OP. Maybe for some reason- given you think it is an bettyellen Sep 2014 #137

Coherent and reasoned resply, rare these days. Puzzledtraveller Sep 2014 #129

The trap not to fall into is believing the forced birthers give a shit about the fetus or the child Major Nikon Sep 2014 #132

In many ways the issue is when does a Fetus becomes a human? happyslug Sep 2014 #102

Human fetuses are human but not persons REP Sep 2014 #125

That has NOT been the law for centuries, even under Roe vs Wade. happyslug Sep 2014 #130

Great post locks Sep 2014 #105

A fetus is a reproductive product of Homo sapiens HereSince1628 Sep 2014 #111

women are moral agents and can make up their own mind about abortion.. CTyankee Sep 2014 #116

This country needs a legal definition of personhood. ncjustice80 Sep 2014 #117

To me it is, but I don't impose that on others Puzzledtraveller Sep 2014 #121

pro life would be anti war. anti death penalty. pro life would be feeding our hungry children. seabeyond Sep 2014 #127

biologically, a fetus is a parasite. niyad Sep 2014 #134

Common sense will always prevail. Once you veer too far off course when it comes ecstatic Sep 2014 #135

A fetus is a parasite. marym625 Sep 2014 #138

I think we should all start correcting anti-choicers when they talk about an "unborn child" ehrnst Sep 2014 #140

I absolutely agree. Heidi Sep 2014 #143

From the US Constitution... freebrew Sep 2014 #145

I agree with you mostly. leftyladyfrommo Sep 2014 #146

This would suggest R.Quinn Sep 2014 #153

Very good point. Thank you. riqster Sep 2014 #147

I just feel like that is a whole different ballgame. leftyladyfrommo Sep 2014 #150

Bear in mind, many locations in the USA are limiting access to birth control. riqster Sep 2014 #154

I know. leftyladyfrommo Sep 2014 #156

From the land of the Hidden. Cartoonist Sep 2014 #151

No. I understand what you are saying. leftyladyfrommo Sep 2014 #158

You know what semantics are? Calling a fetus a child but if a woman opts for a late term abortion KittyWampus Sep 2014 #160

Your post makes no earthly sense whatsoever to me. MadrasT Sep 2014 #164

Viability Cartoonist Sep 2014 #167

From the Democratic Party Platform - TBF Sep 2014 #155

PERSONHOOD ellennelle Sep 2014 #162

That isn't the question though. The question harun Sep 2014 #163

see above ellennelle Sep 2014 #165

Defined by whom? harun Sep 2014 #169

I'm old enough to remember the pre-abortion issue era.... Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2014 #170

Two-way street fadedrose Sep 2014 #171

Post removed Post removed Sep 2014 #174

I see what you're saying and mostly agree, Lunacee_2013 Sep 2014 #175

Post removed Post removed Sep 2014 #176