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muriel_volestrangler

(106,157 posts)

74. Your post confuses me

Tue Sep 16, 2014, 02:29 PM

Sep 2014

You said "It voted itself in with express agreement to remain in forever. " That was what I was saying. That is equivalent to an American state.

"Nothing is more representative of Scotland than a vote of its population."

Yes, and in the 18th century, there was no concept of a vote of the population. They had representative government (with a highly restricted electorate, just as all parliaments did then), and no-one had heard of a 'referendum' (the first referendum in British history was in the 1970s, about staying in the EU). The government of Scotland voluntarily abolished itself, and merged with the rest of Great Britain. I'm not saying that the modern referendum is invalid; I'm saying that it was never thought of as a way to make a valid decision, when the union was made. So the union was seen as permanent.

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Hi DU! I'll be voting in the Scottish Independence Referendum on Thursday... [View all] sibelian Sep 2014 OP

How is it looking? malaise Sep 2014 #1

It depends very much on who you listen to sibelian Sep 2014 #4

The Daily Heil has gone even more batshit insane than usual nxylas Sep 2014 #14

I'm sure you're not making it up sibelian Sep 2014 #19

Rooting for you malaise Sep 2014 #142

I can't imagine that JustAnotherGen Sep 2014 #2

"If you are successful - may this serve as an example for others." sibelian Sep 2014 #5

I'm in NY - LiberalElite Sep 2014 #31

I'm from the greater Rochester Area JustAnotherGen Sep 2014 #40

That was my first thought. I would not want my state to secede but I would vote for some others to jwirr Sep 2014 #75

Having lived in upstate NY for a while jeff47 Sep 2014 #79

The land of the hard flat A's JustAnotherGen Sep 2014 #82

It could never get bad enough. I'm an American first, Nutmegger second. NutmegYankee Sep 2014 #3

I do wonder if it's just a question of scale... sibelian Sep 2014 #8

Scotland also has a history as an independent nation. NutmegYankee Sep 2014 #15

Took the words out of my mouth. riqster Sep 2014 #45

Do it for William! FourScore Sep 2014 #137

what's your sense of the vote? Yea or Nay? cali Sep 2014 #6

Don't know! sibelian Sep 2014 #7

I don't think happier reflects ahead, so much as hope magical thyme Sep 2014 #39

It seems very much that way to me, too. sibelian Sep 2014 #123

If California and some other states were to secede Promethean Sep 2014 #9

But could we move to California if it were to secede? Would it have "European-style" immigration pampango Sep 2014 #11

"the civil war I fear is coming" - I hear that so often, Promethean. sibelian Sep 2014 #12

I see it as a possibility, not an inevitiability Promethean Sep 2014 #17

However those factions are not geographically distributed in a manner supporting DebJ Sep 2014 #47

Or a have - have not split. jwirr Sep 2014 #78

Both. As evidenced by the have-nots who support the haves screwing them over. DebJ Sep 2014 #89

That I completely agree with you on. We would be required to fight our next door neighbor in some jwirr Sep 2014 #90

Secession or devolution of some federal powers to individual states. Divernan Sep 2014 #25

I wonder of Pago Pago would want to secede? Kablooie Sep 2014 #26

not the same thing JI7 Sep 2014 #10

? Not sure what you're saying J17 sibelian Sep 2014 #13

Though the current autonomy that Scotland has is probably slightly less than a US state muriel_volestrangler Sep 2014 #21

That chart would be fascinating if it was readable. Demit Sep 2014 #42

There is a 'download' option on the right, but it's enormous - 12740x7800 muriel_volestrangler Sep 2014 #57

It would have to be absolutely terrible Dorian Gray Sep 2014 #16

It's a momentous decision. I took years over arriving to where I am now. sibelian Sep 2014 #22

Well Dorian Gray Sep 2014 #23

"Screeching lunatics that hate poor people..." 3catwoman3 Sep 2014 #56

Very cool, I hope YES prevails. Good luck. n/t seaglass Sep 2014 #18

Thank you, seaglass. sibelian Sep 2014 #20

I hope that No prevails. Richard_uk Sep 2014 #28

The Southern states of the US are not really comparable to nations merrily Sep 2014 #33

Yes of course it is an issue for the Scottish to make, there are no consequences to me for my seaglass Sep 2014 #38

I think southern states would very much consider the practical issues, and stay. Demit Sep 2014 #48

Well, I guess if Lincoln had said to the South, "OK, have a referendum, Nye Bevan Sep 2014 #24

It was not up to him to say that. The Constitution was a compact among all merrily Sep 2014 #29

Maybe not rpannier Sep 2014 #32

Hi! Congrats on your opportunity to vote. merrily Sep 2014 #27

Actually, the Texas secession clause is a myth. NuclearDem Sep 2014 #49

Good to know. I had read it somewhere before I ever heard Perry's name. merrily Sep 2014 #51

No problem! NuclearDem Sep 2014 #52

The edited post preserves my error and your correction, so merrily Sep 2014 #54

Good point, but Lithuania had no "right" to secede from the Soviet Union, either derby378 Sep 2014 #130

Well, they actually had more of a legal right to secede than Texas. NuclearDem Sep 2014 #131

However, there are similarities: the Scottish Parliament voted to join the union muriel_volestrangler Sep 2014 #64

Did it vote to join the union with a concomitant commitment not to "unjoin," though? merrily Sep 2014 #65

Since it gave up its parliament, there were no such things as referendums then, and the monarch muriel_volestrangler Sep 2014 #67

Giving up one's parliament is not a commitment never to separate. merrily Sep 2014 #68

Your post confuses me muriel_volestrangler Sep 2014 #74

So sorry. "no" was omitted inadvertently. merrily Sep 2014 #76

Oh, dear. I am not literally foraging, just going to a store to buy food. merrily Sep 2014 #81

I don't really see that the situation in Scotland is "bad enough", honestly Spider Jerusalem Sep 2014 #30

States CANNOT secede in the US. MohRokTah Sep 2014 #34

I study regionalism and separatism. The Unionist are doing everything ... Bad Thoughts Sep 2014 #35

Since I live in the south get the red out Sep 2014 #36

It seems that the Republican governors are doing their... 3catwoman3 Sep 2014 #58

YES get the red out Sep 2014 #61

Good luck to you and your fellow country people davidpdx Sep 2014 #37

I wish Scotland well, having Scots ancestors on both sides, whatever the outcome of the referendum Glorfindel Sep 2014 #41

I hope the "yes" vote prevails... dorkzilla Sep 2014 #43

No, we fought a civil war to settle that question. States aren't sufrommich Sep 2014 #44

Hi sibelian! truebluegreen Sep 2014 #46

"How could the countryside secede from the cities?" - very interesting question, I had't thought of sibelian Sep 2014 #100

Yes, I think so. truebluegreen Sep 2014 #114

Hope the yes vote goes through. NuclearDem Sep 2014 #50

My state voted overwhelmingly for "independence" back in 1861 Art_from_Ark Sep 2014 #53

I am ignorant. sibelian Sep 2014 #102

The Arkansas state legislature voted to secede from the Union in 1861 Art_from_Ark Sep 2014 #121

Well, that I did not know. sibelian Sep 2014 #133

I've often wondered that myself Art_from_Ark Sep 2014 #140

I hope a Yes vote will inspire other independence movements, around the world! nt Romulox Sep 2014 #55

As an American with strong emotional ties to Ireland Maeve Sep 2014 #59

US states are administrative divisions created by bureaucrats, LeftinOH Sep 2014 #60

Best wishes to you, sibelian. I am rooting for you Zorra Sep 2014 #62

Thank you, Zorra. sibelian Sep 2014 #118

My state has already seceeded. Baitball Blogger Sep 2014 #63

DUzy! OneGrassRoot Sep 2014 #128

Best of luck to the people of Scotland! YoungDemCA Sep 2014 #66

Cheers, YDC sibelian Sep 2014 #119

Groundskeeper Willie stands in solidarity with you Brother Buzz Sep 2014 #69

LOL! yeah I saw that sibelian Sep 2014 #104

I've gotta admit, the idea of living in Cascadia appeals to me Arugula Latte Sep 2014 #70

Nice sounding nationality, too. sibelian Sep 2014 #138

Exactly! Arugula Latte Sep 2014 #143

I would vote yes Marrah_G Sep 2014 #71

Sibelian, tell me how this can possibly work for Scotland? CTyankee Sep 2014 #72

His argument rest on making a comparison between two economies sibelian Sep 2014 #85

But what about his argument about the money you will use if you depart from the pound and CTyankee Sep 2014 #93

The only other realistic alternative is a Scottish pound. sibelian Sep 2014 #99

I want California, Oregon, and Washington to secede. Zorra Sep 2014 #73

Throw Hawai'i and maybe Alaska in there KamaAina Sep 2014 #80

Hawaii works for me, AK is would be great, but I don't think they'd go for it. nt Zorra Sep 2014 #94

Well, they do have an Alaskan Independence Party. KamaAina Sep 2014 #98

Wow, do they? sibelian Sep 2014 #105

How about, California, Oregon, Washington, and, British Columbia? Tierra_y_Libertad Sep 2014 #83

Left Coast if the best coast. BC works for me! Zorra Sep 2014 #95

I'd vote for Oregon to secede tomorrow if it came up. Maedhros Sep 2014 #77

Hope yes wins, good luck ! nt steve2470 Sep 2014 #84

I'd vote for California independence in a heartbeat Dems to Win Sep 2014 #86

Best wishes to Scotland, no matter which way. politicat Sep 2014 #87

I would never. Nt. Agschmid Sep 2014 #88

I'm all marions ghost Sep 2014 #91

It's kinda freaky. sibelian Sep 2014 #101

He grants you all your wishes zipplewrath Sep 2014 #92

We think we're probably an anomaly. sibelian Sep 2014 #107

Self determination... sendero Sep 2014 #96

I live in Texas...we have morans by the dozen here that bray about seceding from the US. Rex Sep 2014 #97

Not comparable to the US still_one Sep 2014 #103

If by some freak occurance Republicans controled the federal government entirely again Kalidurga Sep 2014 #106

Good for you, I hope you are all successful! sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #108

Thanks sabrina! sibelian Sep 2014 #125

apples and oranges DonCoquixote Sep 2014 #109

yes, that's the thing about the US . even if the South and Northeast may consider themselves JI7 Sep 2014 #110

Yes... sibelian Sep 2014 #111

it goes beyond that DonCoquixote Sep 2014 #112

Right. Scotland's history-- marions ghost Sep 2014 #120

Good for you! Bravo! Go Scotland! Justitia Sep 2014 #113

Enjoy David Cameron's reelection and the permanent Tory majority tenderfoot Sep 2014 #115

Well, if a permanent Tory majority results from Scottish independence sibelian Sep 2014 #116

Also - Cameron re-elected? sibelian Sep 2014 #117

Hi sibelian. lovemydog Sep 2014 #122

Going out to vote just now! sibelian Sep 2014 #124

ha ha-- good luck today marions ghost Sep 2014 #126

I wish Scotland the fredamae Sep 2014 #127

Pardon my ignorance, but, are there plans in place to protect the nuclear arsenal? blm Sep 2014 #129

The SNP want rid of them altogether. sibelian Sep 2014 #132

I wonder where UK will move them. blm Sep 2014 #134

If the situation in my state became that bad Blue_Tires Sep 2014 #135

Watching closely and hoping for a Yes. woo me with science Sep 2014 #136

Thanks woo. sibelian Sep 2014 #139

good for you. (said it a cheery voice, not in snark) nt La Lioness Priyanka Sep 2014 #141