General Discussion

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)

172. Sure, I'm more than happy to explain to you what a strawman is.

Tue Sep 16, 2014, 11:18 PM

Sep 2014

You ask, after constructing the very strawman you claim is not a strawman: 'Is that a strawman or a fact?'

It IS a strawman.

Here, let me try to help you understand.

Apparently from some imaginary OP written by ME, I am assuming, certainly not THIS ONE, you IMPLY, but noticeably do not QUOTE, that somewhere in this imaginary OP, I claimed to speak for the entire Dem Party.

Are you with me so far?

We can make this easy simply by playing a sort of 'show and tell' after which it will all become clear.

Post the quote you are referring to where I claimed to 'speak for the entire Democratic Party'.

IF you DO post such a quote, I lose, you are not trying to erect a strawman.

But if you CAN'T post such a quote, THERE is your strawman!

There, lesson on strawmen simplified.

I love these games, so look forward to your response.

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How Not To Get The Best Possible Democratic Candidate For The White House! [View all] sabrina 1 Sep 2014 OP

He is not a Democrat Evergreen Emerald Sep 2014 #1

What is a democrat Rilgin Sep 2014 #10

Hillary worked in Goldwater's campaign and became disillusioned with the GOP and voted Democrat Thinkingabout Sep 2014 #24

The mid-90's is no longer "a few years ago". n/t winter is coming Sep 2014 #39

I guess I missed your point. Thinkingabout Sep 2014 #40

Twenty years is not "a few". It's dishonest to characterize the two as equivalent. winter is coming Sep 2014 #42

And just what sort of Democrat is Hillary Clinton? truedelphi Sep 2014 #114

Asked and answered. And I haven't forgotten any of that, either. n/t winter is coming Sep 2014 #134

Third Way is not even Second Way. merrily Sep 2014 #180

Not only attorney to Walton, but on the board of directors of WalMart. merrily Sep 2014 #187

Elizabeth Warren started voting for Democrats in 1995... Not "just a few years ago" cascadiance Sep 2014 #43

Hillary was never out of the GOP until she met Bill. merrily Sep 2014 #178

He's more progressive than democrats in office today! TheNutcracker Sep 2014 #102

Yes, Sanders definitely is more FDR-like than most high level Democrats. truedelphi Sep 2014 #120

He's NOT progressive. RoccoR5955 Sep 2014 #142

He's like FDR, Truman, LBJ, a traditional Democrat, and not a New Democrat. merrily Sep 2014 #185

He is sure more like a Democrat than New Democrats DINOs. merrily Sep 2014 #179

Great post. Actually, Evergreen had no argument, only a mantra. merrily Sep 2014 #177

Who says he's not a Democrat? What makes a Democrat in your view? It's definitely not the letter sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #87

If he wants to be a Democrat, he can be one. It's not difficult. (n/t) thesquanderer Sep 2014 #98

Unless you're Third Way. merrily Sep 2014 #182

Hillary is not a real Democrat herself. RoccoR5955 Sep 2014 #140

Not even in name only. DLCers changed the name to New Democrat. merrily Sep 2014 #188

It took just one post to prove the OP's point. n/t A Simple Game Sep 2014 #155

Lol, so true! sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #233

Tell that to the Senate Democratic Caucus, Chuck Schumer and the DSCC. merrily Sep 2014 #176

Bernie has problems handling the heat in a townhall meeting, the questions Thinkingabout Sep 2014 #2

Bernie does great when faced with the same old 'politics' from political hacks. sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #6

Perhaps you should tell him telling someone "shut up" is not acceptable. Thinkingabout Sep 2014 #15

Depends on who he told to 'shut up'. WE the voters are told to stfu all the time.. sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #19

Okay by me, it is not acceptable in the rest of the nation, he cant take the heat. Thinkingabout Sep 2014 #27

Actually the nation loves someone who is tough enough to tell the RIGHT people to just stfu. Can't sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #50

Perhaps you did hear or read the aftermath but there was. Also when Biden told Obama this was a Thinkingabout Sep 2014 #61

Bad taste is trying to smear a good man for a second you know nothing about. merrily Sep 2014 #196

Who? tazkcmo Sep 2014 #55

Bernie was in a townhall meeting and told some there to shutup, not cool. Thinkingabout Sep 2014 #57

Your answer tazkcmo Sep 2014 #59

It really doesn't matter what someone was saying, Bernie lost his cool and told them to shut up. Thinkingabout Sep 2014 #63

You didn't search for me tazkcmo Sep 2014 #64

A person in his position should have handled the situation in a diferent fashion. This proves he is Thinkingabout Sep 2014 #65

Disagree tazkcmo Sep 2014 #67

This is just one item, I am not like a lot of people, i dont vote for or against a person on one Thinkingabout Sep 2014 #70

On MTP he said he was considering going Dem because of the 50-state advantage they offer. freshwest Sep 2014 #79

I have looked at his record and he is too far left for me on many issues. If he runs I am Thinkingabout Sep 2014 #83

Most of the Democratic Party's history is close to European social democrats. freshwest Sep 2014 #84

What are Hillary's positions on domestic issues? Where does she stand on the CPI eg? sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #125

"White hope?" Is it 1930 again already? merrily Sep 2014 #193

"Democrat candidate"? n/t ieoeja Sep 2014 #97

yeah, I noticed that too. navarth Sep 2014 #99

Over 7000 posts, too. merrily Sep 2014 #235

That's DemocratIC candidate tazkcmo Sep 2014 #144

Really? Yet that one second is all you've been posting about on this thread so far. merrily Sep 2014 #191

I'm thinking this won't be the first time we hear about 'Bernie's temper'. I see signs sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #199

Did you happen to see the video of Barney Frank at a town meeting merrily Sep 2014 #204

I did, and I remember when it happened, and I remember how no one here thought sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #231

Agreed, he did great Babel_17 Sep 2014 #130

Urging the Senate to vote for the Iraq War without even having read the NIE, merrily Sep 2014 #198

You appear to confuse the words "proof" and "evidence" LanternWaste Sep 2014 #118

Who is up to the task? Someone who doesn't run away from hecklers, remember the sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #122

In truth, you have no clue what Bernie should have done. All you know about that merrily Sep 2014 #186

OK, I watched it. tazkcmo Sep 2014 #66

I guess being tactful is not one of his best abilities. He cant handle the heat in a townhall Thinkingabout Sep 2014 #68

Again tazkcmo Sep 2014 #69

We can just disagree, whoever taught him manners missed this lesson. Thinkingabout Sep 2014 #71

Yes. tazkcmo Sep 2014 #72

His record speaks for itself, dont think he will make it, he wont have the money Thinkingabout Sep 2014 #73

That would be tazkcmo Sep 2014 #75

This could apply on both candidates. Do you think Bernie would be able to get big Thinkingabout Sep 2014 #77

Corps like Walmart? n/t tazkcmo Sep 2014 #148

Her stand, based only on her words or her stand based on her deeds and votes? merrily Sep 2014 #205

Are you fine with someone opposing women being promoted or would you rather women getting Thinkingabout Sep 2014 #217

thinkingabout tiredtoo Sep 2014 #115

Nailed it. Wish I rec this post. Make a damned OP out of it and merrily Sep 2014 #206

If he accepts money from corporations will he be a corporatist? Thinkingabout Sep 2014 #218

He doesn't have the finesse that Obama has, is all. And it was in his own district. Saying shut up freshwest Sep 2014 #85

Truman wasn't big on finesse, either. He makes everyone's top 10 Presidents in US history. merrily Sep 2014 #219

If one second is the best you've got against Bernie, he should be Emperor. merrily Sep 2014 #190

I would not count on Bernie being Emperor any where, there are many other lacking experiences Thinkingabout Sep 2014 #220

I love what he did. It shows he won't put up with stupidity and nonsense. Some of our sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #250

You watched a few seconds of a meeting. We don't know how long the disruptions were, merrily Sep 2014 #189

He needs to control his temper, it is his problem, he can't put this on anyone but himself. Thinkingabout Sep 2014 #221

Again, you know nothing but one second. You've disrupted this thread merrily Sep 2014 #224

I am entitled to my opinion, you cry one second, there will be others. He is rude. Thinkingabout Sep 2014 #226

Not really. you don't know how much those hecklers had been disrupting merrily Sep 2014 #184

And the Republicans have the police escort people out... what is your point? n/t A Simple Game Sep 2014 #157

You can think it is okay for someone to tell you to shut up but it is not alright with others. Thinkingabout Sep 2014 #161

I noticed you still haven't gone back to the beginning and condemned the A Simple Game Sep 2014 #165

Is this a requirement? Have you condemmed Bernie for telling some one to "Shut up"? Thinkingabout Sep 2014 #222

This gets more ridiculous every time you post it. merrily Sep 2014 #194

It might be trivial to you but it is not to others, this is only one point brought out, there are Thinkingabout Sep 2014 #223

I did not say your posting 40 times about 1 second was trivial. I said ridiculous. merrily Sep 2014 #225

Barney Frank gave that story to media. No one lost his cool in town meetings more than Barney. merrily Sep 2014 #181

You don't speak for "the rest of the nation". Oakenshield Sep 2014 #45

They all LOVED it when Reagan did it navarth Sep 2014 #100

What kind of problems? RoccoR5955 Sep 2014 #141

Baloney. You don't take a comment from Barney Frank merrily Sep 2014 #183

This OP needs to go viral. Thank you for posting, great stuff...n/t monmouth3 Sep 2014 #3

Answer: Spend 6 years complaining while not developing ... JoePhilly Sep 2014 #4

And there it is, just as I pointed out in the OP: sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #7

I blamed WHINERS, not voters. JoePhilly Sep 2014 #16

Are you talking to me? Because once again you are doing exactly as I stated in the OP. sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #18

'Whiners' is what I call a blow off term. zeemike Sep 2014 #60

No, I'm acussing whiners of being whiners. JoePhilly Sep 2014 #88

Good, then your post isn't relevant here. I'm sure the world has plenty of whiners, which just so we sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #92

Ok JoePhilly Sep 2014 #94

Exactly! Andy823 Sep 2014 #93

Sounds to me like you are whining about whiners. Instead of defending the policies of the President rhett o rick Sep 2014 #131

Nice post. n/t A Simple Game Sep 2014 #159

Fact is, people did try to get Bernie and others to run in 2012. merrily Sep 2014 #210

Your response about "projection" is... projection villager Sep 2014 #56

DU does not represent the real world, for which I am grateful. The vitriol expressed at times is OTT freshwest Sep 2014 #86

Very well said ... I think that's why they jumped from Obama to Warren. JoePhilly Sep 2014 #90

How do you feel about claiming that SS had ANYTHING to do with the Deficit necessitating sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #106

Untrue. The 99% want the same things most of DU posters want. merrily Sep 2014 #212

We have been told for the last several years to shut up about 2016, we have an election Autumn Sep 2014 #35

I've noticed that too. Focus on the WH race, even if it's SIX YEARS away and distract sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #46

And you know this how? You know about Sabrina's life when merrily Sep 2014 #197

In some places in this country, the ONLY way to have "D" candidates is to truedelphi Sep 2014 #228

I wonder how many donors to the Dem Party know that the money might end up merrily Sep 2014 #234

"They will do exactly that" indeed! arcane1 Sep 2014 #5

Hillary is the safe candidate. kentuck Sep 2014 #8

Best comment today. LittleGirl Sep 2014 #34

We are not the government. We pay for it, though. merrily Sep 2014 #236

Sure LittleGirl Sep 2014 #241

I am not, but I am sure I am in the minority. (So far.) merrily Sep 2014 #243

delusion indeed. eom LittleGirl Sep 2014 #244

Well imo who wins the whitehouse only matters on issues of nominating scotus judges atm cstanleytech Sep 2014 #52

All the more reason to make sure that any candidate for the WH is a real Democrat and that we stop sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #80

+1000 nt navarth Sep 2014 #105

As long as there is a 60 vote rule in the Senate, Republicans merrily Sep 2014 #237

Thank you, Sabrina! Maedhros Sep 2014 #9

The White House can only do so much if you let Teabaggers infest Congress. CakeGrrl Sep 2014 #11

That's true. But demanding a non corporate candidate for the WH doesn't sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #14

There are not that many Teabaggers. It's the 60 vote Senate rule. merrily Sep 2014 #238

K&R Cleita Sep 2014 #12

I wil be voting for Bernie in the primary. That is where I have the most power. But I will not throw jwirr Sep 2014 #13

I understand that. Why tell them in advance what your plans are? If you truly want a real sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #17

Because they know loyal Democrats will vote for anyone with a D behind their name justiceischeap Sep 2014 #20

I agree with your last paragraph, that is my point. People no matter how loyal, will eventually sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #21

Very good point. jwirr Sep 2014 #25

Not to mention the kind of campaign Hillary ran in 2008. merrily Sep 2014 #239

One of the reasons I am so against not voting or voting for a 3rd party who cannot win in the jwirr Sep 2014 #22

I agree, but that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying to lead them to believe they are going to lose sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #29

On this I agree with you. I have good reps here in NE MN and I am pretty sure they know without jwirr Sep 2014 #31

What worries me most about 2016? yeoman6987 Sep 2014 #30

The pattern since Reagan has been merrily Sep 2014 #240

I can relate. daschess1987 Sep 2014 #23

That is an election point, not a primary point. merrily Sep 2014 #242

Big K & R! Le Taz Hot Sep 2014 #26

I unsubscribed to the DCCC today tazkcmo Sep 2014 #58

Well then, more influence for me.... brooklynite Sep 2014 #101

Why did elected Democrats support Christie, the Republican, in the NJ Gubernatorial race? sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #123

Point 1: DCCC deals with HOUSE candidates brooklynite Sep 2014 #126

Oh please! This is DU you are posting on. sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #128

Name a non NJ Democrat who supported Christie brooklynite Sep 2014 #136

Did the President appear with Buono during her campaign? How much money did the party sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #139

Catch up. Quite a few Democrats endorsed him. It was in all the papers. merrily Sep 2014 #208

Thank you sabrina, excellent post. Scuba Sep 2014 #28

HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!! WillyT Sep 2014 #32

Kicked and recommended! Go, Bernie! Enthusiast Sep 2014 #33

K&R.... daleanime Sep 2014 #36

The labor left needs it's own caucus in the party. pa28 Sep 2014 #37

That is an excellent idea. A Labor Caucus! Wonder why there isn't one? sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #47

My guess. Democrats like me swallowed the lesser of two evils argument too easily. pa28 Sep 2014 #54

Excellent response, thank you. We were all a part of keeping the system alive. I think sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #127

Huge K & R! Thespian2 Sep 2014 #38

Nose holders are needed lobodons Sep 2014 #41

Gore won the 2000 election without a whole lot of nose holders. The election was stolen sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #49

Right on! Time to stop accepting lower and lower expectations from "Democratic Party Authorites" whereisjustice Sep 2014 #44

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^n/t truedelphi Sep 2014 #227

Amen! If we don't tell them when we disagree, they'll never learn RufusTFirefly Sep 2014 #48

Excellent post Sabrina. K&R Ruby the Liberal Sep 2014 #51

Normally, I would trash this thread DonCoquixote Sep 2014 #53

It all depends on WHO votes.. Docross Sep 2014 #62

"A whole lot of Democrats are not happy with Hillary as their only choice." brooklynite Sep 2014 #74

I don't believe in 'hope'. Voters are realists. Voters are also way more mature now than they were sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #82

Charlie Pierce wrote a beautiful piece on "Inevitability" this morning. bullwinkle428 Sep 2014 #76

You are leaving something key out of the equation. NanceGreggs Sep 2014 #78

Every word... truth. Number23 Sep 2014 #81

I don't think DU "works its hardest to shut up black people and women." Comrade Grumpy Sep 2014 #121

Well said, DU does no such thing. You are correct, I have learned to not engage people who sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #124

And you would know better than me, a black woman, whether black people and women are made Number23 Sep 2014 #169

Bravo! FSogol Sep 2014 #91

Let me join you, for a Straw Man post it definitely is right up there and deserves sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #135

Nailed it. Bobbie Jo Sep 2014 #95

Lol! Apparently not! n/t sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #137

Lol! Bobbie Jo Sep 2014 #143

The post definitely earned applause from me. I love watching people erect straw men sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #147

You do that Bobbie Jo Sep 2014 #149

You can count on it. Nice picture, who does it represent?? sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #150

Where is the strawman, sabrina? NanceGreggs Sep 2014 #170

Sure, I'm more than happy to explain to you what a strawman is. sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #172

Oh, you went far beyond ... NanceGreggs Sep 2014 #175

Just as I thought. You tried to build a strawman but didn't have the straw. It was a sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #192

If you ever get around ... NanceGreggs Sep 2014 #200

I did respond to what you said. I described what you said appropriately. sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #201

No, you didn't. NanceGreggs Sep 2014 #202

Okay, I will! sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #249

'Darth Vader Polls Higher Than All Potential 2016 Presidential Candidates' sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #103

The only "strawman" here, sabrina ... NanceGreggs Sep 2014 #171

excellent, excellent point. magical thyme Sep 2014 #89

And she isn't even a candidate yet, we are told. I won't support her either. sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #110

k/r Another great post Sabrina. Thanks. nationalize the fed Sep 2014 #96

Thanks ntf, we can get this party back imo. But it will be a lot of work. sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #160

I would vote for Hillary... ymetca Sep 2014 #104

To me, Mrs. Clinton's public speeches sound like a second rate act ladjf Sep 2014 #111

Sorry but I don't understand that at all. The VP has zero influence. To take either Sen Sanders or rhett o rick Sep 2014 #133

Yep, I think you're right on that one. ymetca Sep 2014 #245

We have to draw the line some time and not continue to be manipulated with the rhett o rick Sep 2014 #246

I have always known about this posturing dynamic. I think they do it on purpose. GoneFishin Sep 2014 #107

I know why I did it for so long, fear of the greater evil. I didn't like it, but fear of sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #116

Our system is so rotten that I've just about lost all hope that ladjf Sep 2014 #108

But we are told there is only ONE person who is 'qualified' to run for the WH! sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #113

knr Douglas Carpenter Sep 2014 #109

I won't bother voting if Hillary Clinton is the nominee. fbc Sep 2014 #112

Maybe not Sanders, but certainly not Clinton Android3.14 Sep 2014 #117

Thank you for getting the point of my OP. And yes, it doesn't have to be any particular sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #119

Thank you Sabina, well said. 99Forever Sep 2014 #129

Me neither 'I will not vote for another nonliberal candidate for any office ever again'. sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #163

I wish I had the way with words you do. 99Forever Sep 2014 #168

No explanations are needed Babel_17 Sep 2014 #132

I hear and agree with your message. The Conservatives in our party are going to vote for rhett o rick Sep 2014 #138

Well said! RoccoR5955 Sep 2014 #145

The Clintons are center right Madmiddle Sep 2014 #146

I can't vote for Bernie in the PA primary unless he is a registered Democrat. PADemD Sep 2014 #151

That's up to the leadership of the DemParty. If they insist on pushing someone on the people sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #152

PA has closed primaries. Democrats can only vote for Democrats. PADemD Sep 2014 #153

No party can win without the Independent vote. That is who they will be going after sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #158

He did say he was considering that. But will the party accept him? His views are in conflict sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #164

I don't see my name in there at all underpants Sep 2014 #154

Sorreee! sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #162

:-) underpants Sep 2014 #167

Yes yellowwoodII Sep 2014 #156

K&R LittleBlue Sep 2014 #166

K&R JEB Sep 2014 #173

Bernie is probably the most sensible person in DC. JEB Sep 2014 #174

That's a great song, thanks for posting it. I have been watching the Roosevelt series sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #195

Another simple, but great song, sung by a great human. Which side are you on? merrily Sep 2014 #207

That is a great song, I remember it was used quite often during OWS. sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #232

um....plenty so us have been holding our noses and voting for some time now Skittles Sep 2014 #203

That would have been LBJ, but only on domestic policy. Maybe Carter on foreign. merrily Sep 2014 #209

excellent assessment, merrily Skittles Sep 2014 #247

Thanks. Very nice of you. merrily Sep 2014 #248

A few voices in the wilderness won't change anything DFW Sep 2014 #211

So will a massive number voting for who they really think merrily Sep 2014 #213

But there has to be some to vote FOR DFW Sep 2014 #215

There always is, and always has been, someone to vote for, if you are unafraid. merrily Sep 2014 #216

Thanks, Sabrina. People who never heard of Bernie but watched MTP Sunday are merrily Sep 2014 #214

I see you made the Jelly Team come out and hurrmph at your wonderful post. Rex Sep 2014 #229

Yes, for some it is hard to cope with change, such as voters being a lot more sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #230