General Discussion

merrily

(45,251 posts)

209. That would have been LBJ, but only on domestic policy. Maybe Carter on foreign.

Wed Sep 17, 2014, 04:24 AM

Sep 2014

Then, Carter's loss and Mondale's were used as an excuse to alter the Democratic Party to Third Way, which his actually 1.3 Way. Republican on almost everything but cultural issues and the occasional populist feint to placate union donors and supporters, plus the hippie types in the base who are aging out of it.

Example of feint (IMO, of course): The 2009-2011 Congress didn't give EFCA much of anything, but, once Republicans controlled the house and will never pass an increase in the minimum wage, the minimum wage became a big issue.

But, with our system, your voting choices are (1) nuts and corporatist, (2) lesser of two evils and (3) sure to lose.

The losses of Carter and Mondale were also used to alter the structure of the Democratic Party, including Super Delegates, who are always ready to make sure the nominee is "electible" (not populist) no matter who wins the primary. Democratic Party with a capital D, but not a small d.

Those changes were attempted after McGovern's loss, but failed. However, McGovern's loss was used to repeal reforms in the Party that McGovern had instituted during the brief time he was head of the Party.

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How Not To Get The Best Possible Democratic Candidate For The White House! [View all] sabrina 1 Sep 2014 OP

He is not a Democrat Evergreen Emerald Sep 2014 #1

What is a democrat Rilgin Sep 2014 #10

Hillary worked in Goldwater's campaign and became disillusioned with the GOP and voted Democrat Thinkingabout Sep 2014 #24

The mid-90's is no longer "a few years ago". n/t winter is coming Sep 2014 #39

I guess I missed your point. Thinkingabout Sep 2014 #40

Twenty years is not "a few". It's dishonest to characterize the two as equivalent. winter is coming Sep 2014 #42

And just what sort of Democrat is Hillary Clinton? truedelphi Sep 2014 #114

Asked and answered. And I haven't forgotten any of that, either. n/t winter is coming Sep 2014 #134

Third Way is not even Second Way. merrily Sep 2014 #180

Not only attorney to Walton, but on the board of directors of WalMart. merrily Sep 2014 #187

Elizabeth Warren started voting for Democrats in 1995... Not "just a few years ago" cascadiance Sep 2014 #43

Hillary was never out of the GOP until she met Bill. merrily Sep 2014 #178

He's more progressive than democrats in office today! TheNutcracker Sep 2014 #102

Yes, Sanders definitely is more FDR-like than most high level Democrats. truedelphi Sep 2014 #120

He's NOT progressive. RoccoR5955 Sep 2014 #142

He's like FDR, Truman, LBJ, a traditional Democrat, and not a New Democrat. merrily Sep 2014 #185

He is sure more like a Democrat than New Democrats DINOs. merrily Sep 2014 #179

Great post. Actually, Evergreen had no argument, only a mantra. merrily Sep 2014 #177

Who says he's not a Democrat? What makes a Democrat in your view? It's definitely not the letter sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #87

If he wants to be a Democrat, he can be one. It's not difficult. (n/t) thesquanderer Sep 2014 #98

Unless you're Third Way. merrily Sep 2014 #182

Hillary is not a real Democrat herself. RoccoR5955 Sep 2014 #140

Not even in name only. DLCers changed the name to New Democrat. merrily Sep 2014 #188

It took just one post to prove the OP's point. n/t A Simple Game Sep 2014 #155

Lol, so true! sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #233

Tell that to the Senate Democratic Caucus, Chuck Schumer and the DSCC. merrily Sep 2014 #176

Bernie has problems handling the heat in a townhall meeting, the questions Thinkingabout Sep 2014 #2

Bernie does great when faced with the same old 'politics' from political hacks. sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #6

Perhaps you should tell him telling someone "shut up" is not acceptable. Thinkingabout Sep 2014 #15

Depends on who he told to 'shut up'. WE the voters are told to stfu all the time.. sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #19

Okay by me, it is not acceptable in the rest of the nation, he cant take the heat. Thinkingabout Sep 2014 #27

Actually the nation loves someone who is tough enough to tell the RIGHT people to just stfu. Can't sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #50

Perhaps you did hear or read the aftermath but there was. Also when Biden told Obama this was a Thinkingabout Sep 2014 #61

Bad taste is trying to smear a good man for a second you know nothing about. merrily Sep 2014 #196

Who? tazkcmo Sep 2014 #55

Bernie was in a townhall meeting and told some there to shutup, not cool. Thinkingabout Sep 2014 #57

Your answer tazkcmo Sep 2014 #59

It really doesn't matter what someone was saying, Bernie lost his cool and told them to shut up. Thinkingabout Sep 2014 #63

You didn't search for me tazkcmo Sep 2014 #64

A person in his position should have handled the situation in a diferent fashion. This proves he is Thinkingabout Sep 2014 #65

Disagree tazkcmo Sep 2014 #67

This is just one item, I am not like a lot of people, i dont vote for or against a person on one Thinkingabout Sep 2014 #70

On MTP he said he was considering going Dem because of the 50-state advantage they offer. freshwest Sep 2014 #79

I have looked at his record and he is too far left for me on many issues. If he runs I am Thinkingabout Sep 2014 #83

Most of the Democratic Party's history is close to European social democrats. freshwest Sep 2014 #84

What are Hillary's positions on domestic issues? Where does she stand on the CPI eg? sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #125

"White hope?" Is it 1930 again already? merrily Sep 2014 #193

"Democrat candidate"? n/t ieoeja Sep 2014 #97

yeah, I noticed that too. navarth Sep 2014 #99

Over 7000 posts, too. merrily Sep 2014 #235

That's DemocratIC candidate tazkcmo Sep 2014 #144

Really? Yet that one second is all you've been posting about on this thread so far. merrily Sep 2014 #191

I'm thinking this won't be the first time we hear about 'Bernie's temper'. I see signs sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #199

Did you happen to see the video of Barney Frank at a town meeting merrily Sep 2014 #204

I did, and I remember when it happened, and I remember how no one here thought sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #231

Agreed, he did great Babel_17 Sep 2014 #130

Urging the Senate to vote for the Iraq War without even having read the NIE, merrily Sep 2014 #198

You appear to confuse the words "proof" and "evidence" LanternWaste Sep 2014 #118

Who is up to the task? Someone who doesn't run away from hecklers, remember the sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #122

In truth, you have no clue what Bernie should have done. All you know about that merrily Sep 2014 #186

OK, I watched it. tazkcmo Sep 2014 #66

I guess being tactful is not one of his best abilities. He cant handle the heat in a townhall Thinkingabout Sep 2014 #68

Again tazkcmo Sep 2014 #69

We can just disagree, whoever taught him manners missed this lesson. Thinkingabout Sep 2014 #71

Yes. tazkcmo Sep 2014 #72

His record speaks for itself, dont think he will make it, he wont have the money Thinkingabout Sep 2014 #73

That would be tazkcmo Sep 2014 #75

This could apply on both candidates. Do you think Bernie would be able to get big Thinkingabout Sep 2014 #77

Corps like Walmart? n/t tazkcmo Sep 2014 #148

Her stand, based only on her words or her stand based on her deeds and votes? merrily Sep 2014 #205

Are you fine with someone opposing women being promoted or would you rather women getting Thinkingabout Sep 2014 #217

thinkingabout tiredtoo Sep 2014 #115

Nailed it. Wish I rec this post. Make a damned OP out of it and merrily Sep 2014 #206

If he accepts money from corporations will he be a corporatist? Thinkingabout Sep 2014 #218

He doesn't have the finesse that Obama has, is all. And it was in his own district. Saying shut up freshwest Sep 2014 #85

Truman wasn't big on finesse, either. He makes everyone's top 10 Presidents in US history. merrily Sep 2014 #219

If one second is the best you've got against Bernie, he should be Emperor. merrily Sep 2014 #190

I would not count on Bernie being Emperor any where, there are many other lacking experiences Thinkingabout Sep 2014 #220

I love what he did. It shows he won't put up with stupidity and nonsense. Some of our sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #250

You watched a few seconds of a meeting. We don't know how long the disruptions were, merrily Sep 2014 #189

He needs to control his temper, it is his problem, he can't put this on anyone but himself. Thinkingabout Sep 2014 #221

Again, you know nothing but one second. You've disrupted this thread merrily Sep 2014 #224

I am entitled to my opinion, you cry one second, there will be others. He is rude. Thinkingabout Sep 2014 #226

Not really. you don't know how much those hecklers had been disrupting merrily Sep 2014 #184

And the Republicans have the police escort people out... what is your point? n/t A Simple Game Sep 2014 #157

You can think it is okay for someone to tell you to shut up but it is not alright with others. Thinkingabout Sep 2014 #161

I noticed you still haven't gone back to the beginning and condemned the A Simple Game Sep 2014 #165

Is this a requirement? Have you condemmed Bernie for telling some one to "Shut up"? Thinkingabout Sep 2014 #222

This gets more ridiculous every time you post it. merrily Sep 2014 #194

It might be trivial to you but it is not to others, this is only one point brought out, there are Thinkingabout Sep 2014 #223

I did not say your posting 40 times about 1 second was trivial. I said ridiculous. merrily Sep 2014 #225

Barney Frank gave that story to media. No one lost his cool in town meetings more than Barney. merrily Sep 2014 #181

You don't speak for "the rest of the nation". Oakenshield Sep 2014 #45

They all LOVED it when Reagan did it navarth Sep 2014 #100

What kind of problems? RoccoR5955 Sep 2014 #141

Baloney. You don't take a comment from Barney Frank merrily Sep 2014 #183

This OP needs to go viral. Thank you for posting, great stuff...n/t monmouth3 Sep 2014 #3

Answer: Spend 6 years complaining while not developing ... JoePhilly Sep 2014 #4

And there it is, just as I pointed out in the OP: sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #7

I blamed WHINERS, not voters. JoePhilly Sep 2014 #16

Are you talking to me? Because once again you are doing exactly as I stated in the OP. sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #18

'Whiners' is what I call a blow off term. zeemike Sep 2014 #60

No, I'm acussing whiners of being whiners. JoePhilly Sep 2014 #88

Good, then your post isn't relevant here. I'm sure the world has plenty of whiners, which just so we sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #92

Ok JoePhilly Sep 2014 #94

Exactly! Andy823 Sep 2014 #93

Sounds to me like you are whining about whiners. Instead of defending the policies of the President rhett o rick Sep 2014 #131

Nice post. n/t A Simple Game Sep 2014 #159

Fact is, people did try to get Bernie and others to run in 2012. merrily Sep 2014 #210

Your response about "projection" is... projection villager Sep 2014 #56

DU does not represent the real world, for which I am grateful. The vitriol expressed at times is OTT freshwest Sep 2014 #86

Very well said ... I think that's why they jumped from Obama to Warren. JoePhilly Sep 2014 #90

How do you feel about claiming that SS had ANYTHING to do with the Deficit necessitating sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #106

Untrue. The 99% want the same things most of DU posters want. merrily Sep 2014 #212

We have been told for the last several years to shut up about 2016, we have an election Autumn Sep 2014 #35

I've noticed that too. Focus on the WH race, even if it's SIX YEARS away and distract sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #46

And you know this how? You know about Sabrina's life when merrily Sep 2014 #197

In some places in this country, the ONLY way to have "D" candidates is to truedelphi Sep 2014 #228

I wonder how many donors to the Dem Party know that the money might end up merrily Sep 2014 #234

"They will do exactly that" indeed! arcane1 Sep 2014 #5

Hillary is the safe candidate. kentuck Sep 2014 #8

Best comment today. LittleGirl Sep 2014 #34

We are not the government. We pay for it, though. merrily Sep 2014 #236

Sure LittleGirl Sep 2014 #241

I am not, but I am sure I am in the minority. (So far.) merrily Sep 2014 #243

delusion indeed. eom LittleGirl Sep 2014 #244

Well imo who wins the whitehouse only matters on issues of nominating scotus judges atm cstanleytech Sep 2014 #52

All the more reason to make sure that any candidate for the WH is a real Democrat and that we stop sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #80

+1000 nt navarth Sep 2014 #105

As long as there is a 60 vote rule in the Senate, Republicans merrily Sep 2014 #237

Thank you, Sabrina! Maedhros Sep 2014 #9

The White House can only do so much if you let Teabaggers infest Congress. CakeGrrl Sep 2014 #11

That's true. But demanding a non corporate candidate for the WH doesn't sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #14

There are not that many Teabaggers. It's the 60 vote Senate rule. merrily Sep 2014 #238

K&R Cleita Sep 2014 #12

I wil be voting for Bernie in the primary. That is where I have the most power. But I will not throw jwirr Sep 2014 #13

I understand that. Why tell them in advance what your plans are? If you truly want a real sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #17

Because they know loyal Democrats will vote for anyone with a D behind their name justiceischeap Sep 2014 #20

I agree with your last paragraph, that is my point. People no matter how loyal, will eventually sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #21

Very good point. jwirr Sep 2014 #25

Not to mention the kind of campaign Hillary ran in 2008. merrily Sep 2014 #239

One of the reasons I am so against not voting or voting for a 3rd party who cannot win in the jwirr Sep 2014 #22

I agree, but that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying to lead them to believe they are going to lose sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #29

On this I agree with you. I have good reps here in NE MN and I am pretty sure they know without jwirr Sep 2014 #31

What worries me most about 2016? yeoman6987 Sep 2014 #30

The pattern since Reagan has been merrily Sep 2014 #240

I can relate. daschess1987 Sep 2014 #23

That is an election point, not a primary point. merrily Sep 2014 #242

Big K & R! Le Taz Hot Sep 2014 #26

I unsubscribed to the DCCC today tazkcmo Sep 2014 #58

Well then, more influence for me.... brooklynite Sep 2014 #101

Why did elected Democrats support Christie, the Republican, in the NJ Gubernatorial race? sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #123

Point 1: DCCC deals with HOUSE candidates brooklynite Sep 2014 #126

Oh please! This is DU you are posting on. sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #128

Name a non NJ Democrat who supported Christie brooklynite Sep 2014 #136

Did the President appear with Buono during her campaign? How much money did the party sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #139

Catch up. Quite a few Democrats endorsed him. It was in all the papers. merrily Sep 2014 #208

Thank you sabrina, excellent post. Scuba Sep 2014 #28

HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!! WillyT Sep 2014 #32

Kicked and recommended! Go, Bernie! Enthusiast Sep 2014 #33

K&R.... daleanime Sep 2014 #36

The labor left needs it's own caucus in the party. pa28 Sep 2014 #37

That is an excellent idea. A Labor Caucus! Wonder why there isn't one? sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #47

My guess. Democrats like me swallowed the lesser of two evils argument too easily. pa28 Sep 2014 #54

Excellent response, thank you. We were all a part of keeping the system alive. I think sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #127

Huge K & R! Thespian2 Sep 2014 #38

Nose holders are needed lobodons Sep 2014 #41

Gore won the 2000 election without a whole lot of nose holders. The election was stolen sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #49

Right on! Time to stop accepting lower and lower expectations from "Democratic Party Authorites" whereisjustice Sep 2014 #44

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^n/t truedelphi Sep 2014 #227

Amen! If we don't tell them when we disagree, they'll never learn RufusTFirefly Sep 2014 #48

Excellent post Sabrina. K&R Ruby the Liberal Sep 2014 #51

Normally, I would trash this thread DonCoquixote Sep 2014 #53

It all depends on WHO votes.. Docross Sep 2014 #62

"A whole lot of Democrats are not happy with Hillary as their only choice." brooklynite Sep 2014 #74

I don't believe in 'hope'. Voters are realists. Voters are also way more mature now than they were sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #82

Charlie Pierce wrote a beautiful piece on "Inevitability" this morning. bullwinkle428 Sep 2014 #76

You are leaving something key out of the equation. NanceGreggs Sep 2014 #78

Every word... truth. Number23 Sep 2014 #81

I don't think DU "works its hardest to shut up black people and women." Comrade Grumpy Sep 2014 #121

Well said, DU does no such thing. You are correct, I have learned to not engage people who sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #124

And you would know better than me, a black woman, whether black people and women are made Number23 Sep 2014 #169

Bravo! FSogol Sep 2014 #91

Let me join you, for a Straw Man post it definitely is right up there and deserves sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #135

Nailed it. Bobbie Jo Sep 2014 #95

Lol! Apparently not! n/t sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #137

Lol! Bobbie Jo Sep 2014 #143

The post definitely earned applause from me. I love watching people erect straw men sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #147

You do that Bobbie Jo Sep 2014 #149

You can count on it. Nice picture, who does it represent?? sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #150

Where is the strawman, sabrina? NanceGreggs Sep 2014 #170

Sure, I'm more than happy to explain to you what a strawman is. sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #172

Oh, you went far beyond ... NanceGreggs Sep 2014 #175

Just as I thought. You tried to build a strawman but didn't have the straw. It was a sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #192

If you ever get around ... NanceGreggs Sep 2014 #200

I did respond to what you said. I described what you said appropriately. sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #201

No, you didn't. NanceGreggs Sep 2014 #202

Okay, I will! sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #249

'Darth Vader Polls Higher Than All Potential 2016 Presidential Candidates' sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #103

The only "strawman" here, sabrina ... NanceGreggs Sep 2014 #171

excellent, excellent point. magical thyme Sep 2014 #89

And she isn't even a candidate yet, we are told. I won't support her either. sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #110

k/r Another great post Sabrina. Thanks. nationalize the fed Sep 2014 #96

Thanks ntf, we can get this party back imo. But it will be a lot of work. sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #160

I would vote for Hillary... ymetca Sep 2014 #104

To me, Mrs. Clinton's public speeches sound like a second rate act ladjf Sep 2014 #111

Sorry but I don't understand that at all. The VP has zero influence. To take either Sen Sanders or rhett o rick Sep 2014 #133

Yep, I think you're right on that one. ymetca Sep 2014 #245

We have to draw the line some time and not continue to be manipulated with the rhett o rick Sep 2014 #246

I have always known about this posturing dynamic. I think they do it on purpose. GoneFishin Sep 2014 #107

I know why I did it for so long, fear of the greater evil. I didn't like it, but fear of sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #116

Our system is so rotten that I've just about lost all hope that ladjf Sep 2014 #108

But we are told there is only ONE person who is 'qualified' to run for the WH! sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #113

knr Douglas Carpenter Sep 2014 #109

I won't bother voting if Hillary Clinton is the nominee. fbc Sep 2014 #112

Maybe not Sanders, but certainly not Clinton Android3.14 Sep 2014 #117

Thank you for getting the point of my OP. And yes, it doesn't have to be any particular sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #119

Thank you Sabina, well said. 99Forever Sep 2014 #129

Me neither 'I will not vote for another nonliberal candidate for any office ever again'. sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #163

I wish I had the way with words you do. 99Forever Sep 2014 #168

No explanations are needed Babel_17 Sep 2014 #132

I hear and agree with your message. The Conservatives in our party are going to vote for rhett o rick Sep 2014 #138

Well said! RoccoR5955 Sep 2014 #145

The Clintons are center right Madmiddle Sep 2014 #146

I can't vote for Bernie in the PA primary unless he is a registered Democrat. PADemD Sep 2014 #151

That's up to the leadership of the DemParty. If they insist on pushing someone on the people sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #152

PA has closed primaries. Democrats can only vote for Democrats. PADemD Sep 2014 #153

No party can win without the Independent vote. That is who they will be going after sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #158

He did say he was considering that. But will the party accept him? His views are in conflict sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #164

I don't see my name in there at all underpants Sep 2014 #154

Sorreee! sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #162

:-) underpants Sep 2014 #167

Yes yellowwoodII Sep 2014 #156

K&R LittleBlue Sep 2014 #166

K&R JEB Sep 2014 #173

Bernie is probably the most sensible person in DC. JEB Sep 2014 #174

That's a great song, thanks for posting it. I have been watching the Roosevelt series sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #195

Another simple, but great song, sung by a great human. Which side are you on? merrily Sep 2014 #207

That is a great song, I remember it was used quite often during OWS. sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #232

um....plenty so us have been holding our noses and voting for some time now Skittles Sep 2014 #203

That would have been LBJ, but only on domestic policy. Maybe Carter on foreign. merrily Sep 2014 #209

excellent assessment, merrily Skittles Sep 2014 #247

Thanks. Very nice of you. merrily Sep 2014 #248

A few voices in the wilderness won't change anything DFW Sep 2014 #211

So will a massive number voting for who they really think merrily Sep 2014 #213

But there has to be some to vote FOR DFW Sep 2014 #215

There always is, and always has been, someone to vote for, if you are unafraid. merrily Sep 2014 #216

Thanks, Sabrina. People who never heard of Bernie but watched MTP Sunday are merrily Sep 2014 #214

I see you made the Jelly Team come out and hurrmph at your wonderful post. Rex Sep 2014 #229

Yes, for some it is hard to cope with change, such as voters being a lot more sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #230