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NanceGreggs

(27,835 posts)
42. Thank you for your civil ...
Thu Sep 18, 2014, 07:45 PM
Sep 2014

... and well-stated response. Sadly, they have become all too rare here.

I would be more than happy to see Sanders participate in the primaries. He is intelligent, extremely knowledgeable, and knows how to frame his positions with clarity and precision.

But I do not believe he is electable as POTUS, and here's why: As we have seen in election after election in this country, far more citizens vote on the basis of their perception of a candidate, rather than on the basis of said candidate's positions on important issues. That is a sad fact, but it is the reality of the situation.

We've certainly seen this with respect to the "disappointed with Obama" folks, who often express that they didn't get the man they thought they'd voted for. And in many, many instances, it becomes obvious that their perception of who Obama was, and how he was likely to govern, had no basis in reality. For many, Obama was some far-left mover-and-shaker, a cross between a miracle-worker who was going to change everything overnight and an avenger who was going to make life miserable for Republicans in payback for the misery we lived through under Dubya and his administration.

Had they actually listened to what the man said and watched how he conducted himself, they would have known just how off-base their perceptions were.

I remember reading conservative message boards during the Obama/McCain campaigns. The vast majority of the posters actually believed that Sarah Palin was an intelligent, politically savvy woman, a straight-talkin' "maverick" whose lack of polish denoted down-home common sense. I remember how many of them said that if only the liberals/progressives really listened to what she had to say, they would vote for the GOP ticket. They were certain that voters would come around to seeing what they saw, and would come away with the same "perception" of her that they thought was so incredibly obvious. As we both know, their perception couldn't have been more wrong.

So coming back to Sanders, there is a perception of him out there among many that he is too radical, too far-left, too doggedly persistent in his views, too willing to embrace ideas and actions that strike many as dangerously unrealistic. The socialist label doesn't sit well with a lot of people; he is also of an age that many find unacceptable given the rigours of the presidency. He is also a Jew - which many people, unfortunately, still see as a basis for suspicion, i.e. "He's not a Christian; he's 'different', he's not one of 'us'." And our friends in the "librul" MSM will waste no time in driving home all of the above.

Again, perception, not reality, is a driver in political elections. What we on the left see as Sanders' persistence will be seen by many as hard-headedness, and an unwillingness to compromise, even when it is in the best interest of the citizenry. What many of us see as an admirable lack of patience with stupidity, others will see as arrogance. What many of us see as common-sense innovative ideas, others will see as too far out of mainstream thinking to be taken seriously.

Do I believe Sanders would make a great president, who would do great things? Absolutely. But realistically, I have to accept that my perception of the man is not shared by everyone. I also have to accept that what I see as Sanders' strengths would be perceived as his weaknesses by many - and again, one cannot discount the impact of the mainstream media, who would ensure that those strengths became vulnerabilities day after day, broadcast after broadcast.

It is a truly unfortunate state of affairs that one has to take all of the above into consideration - but political reality is what it is, and ignoring reality never accomplishes anything.

I apologize for jumping the gun, as it were, in assuming that you were taking the position that Hillary supporters were being "anti-Sanders". There have been too many OPs of late that express that view, and I was annoyed to see yet another one. I often forget how black-and-white thinking has taken over DU - where if one says "I like chocolate ice cream," they will be bombarded with accusations that they "HATE!!!" vanilla.

In the end, I will be voting for whoever the Democratic nominee is, whether I like him/her or not, or would have preferred someone else. I know there are those here who see that as having no principles in voting for the (D) over every other consideration. But in truth, the overwhelming
principle that guides my vote is ensuring that an (R) never sees the inside of the Oval Office again in my lifetime.

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He has been an IND since about 81 and don't believe he will switch to DEM, and CK_John Sep 2014 #1
That is simply untrue. 99Forever Sep 2014 #3
I don't think such a switch would cost him any of his current support. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Sep 2014 #4
I think his progressive base would support him regardless of the letter after his name thesquanderer Sep 2014 #8
I doubt there are any "anti-Sanders" folks here. JoePhilly Sep 2014 #2
I think they exist. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Sep 2014 #5
Of course you can be pro Hillary and not anti-Sanders thesquanderer Sep 2014 #6
I agree. I haven't see anyone here who dislikes Bernie Sanders wyldwolf Sep 2014 #7
So, who would you like to see run? thesquanderer Sep 2014 #9
oh, and I wasn't talking about whether people liked or disliked him thesquanderer Sep 2014 #10
I'm decidedly in Hillary's corner but welcome a Sanders run and would vote for him in a general. wyldwolf Sep 2014 #11
One thing which will halt his ability to become president his title of Independent Socialists. Thinkingabout Sep 2014 #12
There's are other threads about whether he can win... thesquanderer Sep 2014 #13
As I see it, if he should decide to run he will probably end up taking lots of heat as I stated on Thinkingabout Sep 2014 #14
Okay then to answer your question... thesquanderer Sep 2014 #16
I hear a lot about Hillary being too Wall Street friendly, yes she gives speeches to Wall Street Thinkingabout Sep 2014 #18
I agree... Can you give me a link so I can post this without a fuss? I don't think the media has freshwest Sep 2014 #32
Be glad to, I see her connection to Walmart and Goldmann Sachs posted with what appears to Thinkingabout Sep 2014 #39
WOW! I will be using that here for what it's worth. But will this get to women, in particular? freshwest Sep 2014 #40
I wouldn't go so far as to say I'm "anti-Hillary" but I do find many of her positions - especially nomorenomore08 Sep 2014 #21
I like him and can't stand her Boreal Sep 2014 #29
Interesting source material: freshwest Sep 2014 #33
I will vote for Hillary gwheezie Sep 2014 #15
If not Hillary gwheezie Sep 2014 #17
You are aware he is an independent correct? Agschmid Sep 2014 #19
If he wants the D after his name to be able to run as a D, it's easy to do. thesquanderer Sep 2014 #24
I think it makes a difference gwheezie Sep 2014 #26
I completely agree, it does make a difference. thesquanderer Sep 2014 #27
I hope he does gwheezie Sep 2014 #28
Pointing out that Sanders is unlikely to win, baldguy Sep 2014 #20
Convince you that he can win the primaries? thesquanderer Sep 2014 #22
1st he has to be a dem nt gwheezie Sep 2014 #23
See post 24 that I posted while you were posting 23. ;-) thesquanderer Sep 2014 #25
Except that each of them - including Dukakis - actually *DID* convince enough people. baldguy Sep 2014 #34
I was talking about which ones won in the general election. thesquanderer Sep 2014 #41
Who here has expressed anything ... NanceGreggs Sep 2014 #30
Answering your question thesquanderer Sep 2014 #36
Thank you for your civil ... NanceGreggs Sep 2014 #42
I agree with most of what you said thesquanderer Sep 2014 #43
Sadly ... NanceGreggs Sep 2014 #44
I like what you said! LynneSin Sep 2014 #38
I like both Schweitzer and O'Malley, personally (nt) Recursion Sep 2014 #31
I like Kirsten Gillibrand myself justiceischeap Sep 2014 #35
My only issue with Sanders is age. If that makes me ageist then so be it LynneSin Sep 2014 #37
I agree. LuvNewcastle Sep 2014 #45
Regardless of who Jamaal510 Sep 2014 #46
I'm not anti-Sanders, I just do not believe he would be capable of winning the GE MohRokTah Sep 2014 #47
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»To the Anti-Sanders folk:...»Reply #42