General Discussion

Boreal

(725 posts)

119. I'm afraid it's a lose/lose situation

Fri Sep 19, 2014, 09:33 PM

Sep 2014

Because both parties advance the same foreign policy.

You compare Obama to batshit crazy (McCain) so, sure, he looks compared to that but he has had an aggressive and destruction foreign policy. What's he's better at is "leading from behind" or hiding behind coalitions and "humanitarian" concerns. Libya is TOTALLY destroyed, however it was carried out. A terrible proxy war against Russia is being waged in Ukraine with an oligarch neoNazi regime backed by the US. Egypt was almost destroyed. Syria is another proxy war, using Islamic terrorists (FSA is not "moderate&quot to take out Assad, a goal set forth by PNAC, years ago. There's been nothing but death destruction everywhere the US has interfered. It only differs from Bush/Cheney in that's been far more covert, rather direct invasion. Oh, and let's not forget about the "moderate rebels" using chemical gas and the US trying to blame Syrian forces as a pretext for last year's attempt to bomb the shit out Syria. In the end, we're still getting Insane McCain's arming of terrorists and providing them air support.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

234 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Sens. Warren and Sanders voted against funding Obama's War. [View all] morningfog Sep 2014 OP

K&R 99Forever Sep 2014 #1

K&R!!!!!!!!!! newfie11 Sep 2014 #2

Let's thank ALL 22 of them ... meegbear Sep 2014 #3

All 2016 presidential candidates from the senate can be found morningfog Sep 2014 #5

Are you psychic? tridim Sep 2014 #7

One does not have to be a psychic to see that this action will become Enthusiast Sep 2014 #94

Hardy.... daleanime Sep 2014 #100

Why don't you tell us whether you support Pres Obama's wars? Or is it easier to rhett o rick Sep 2014 #152

OFFS. NealK Sep 2014 #158

Of course neither of my TWO DEMOCRATIC SENATORS... kag Sep 2014 #14

Warren and Markey meegbear Sep 2014 #15

See my #20 below. They are not against the war. They are against arming Syrian rebels. nt stevenleser Sep 2014 #21

Thank you for the info ... meegbear Sep 2014 #26

You're welcome! Here is a link to the full text of the bill... stevenleser Sep 2014 #47

Warren wants action against ISIS, and monitoring of Americans travelling overseas FrodosPet Sep 2014 #133

Sigh. So we need to repeal Carter's EO 12036. sir pball Sep 2014 #221

That lists prooves davidpdx Sep 2014 #18

Considering the vote was to only arm Syrian rebels, there are plenty of reasons to be wary of it stevenleser Sep 2014 #46

Jimmy Carter did? davidpdx Sep 2014 #104

He said he thinks we should attack ISIS and morningfog Sep 2014 #128

List of the brave. Bravo n/t n2doc Sep 2014 #80

This list shows why, as a Californian, I do not support Boxer for re-election BrotherIvan Sep 2014 #98

A fellow Cal Cartoonist Sep 2014 #130

K & R RoccoR5955 Sep 2014 #4

This is why there is no unity among Democrats, liberals, and progressives uwep Sep 2014 #6

Let's remain loyal.... raindaddy Sep 2014 #11

My thoughts EXACTLY. djean111 Sep 2014 #27

That's about the size of it! FiveGoodMen Sep 2014 #89

There will be boots on the ground, soon enough... DeadEyeDyck Sep 2014 #28

you can support someone without agreeing with them 100% of the time Heather MC Sep 2014 #31

A violence Hawk? zipplewrath Sep 2014 #86

um, you forgot about Obama's surge in Afghanistan - more lives lost, more money wasted whereisjustice Sep 2014 #103

I'm afraid it's a lose/lose situation Boreal Sep 2014 #119

Not to worry. Although some here complain (and rightfully so) those who actually do BlueCaliDem Sep 2014 #179

Indeed. They showed their *true* stripes. MannyGoldstein Sep 2014 #8

Our track record on arming the loyal opposition isn't that good. CentralMass Sep 2014 #45

Congress voted to arm and train Islamist rebels CJCRANE Sep 2014 #9

It is absurd. ozone_man Sep 2014 #126

No, you're not alone. I agree with you on every word. hardcover Sep 2014 #153

And that is a good thing to debate. I'm not comfortable with it either. I'm pretty close to Warren stevenleser Sep 2014 #170

So did more than a few others. cali Sep 2014 #10

"Warren: Destroying ISIS should be 'No. 1 priority'" - This vote will hurt her stevenleser Sep 2014 #12

She voted for the war before voting against it... berni_mccoy Sep 2014 #17

I see what's going on here. She is in favor of the airwar, just not in favor of arming Syrian rebels stevenleser Sep 2014 #19

The optics are still bad berni_mccoy Sep 2014 #23

Agreed. It was a bad decision. This would finish her chances in a general election. nt stevenleser Sep 2014 #25

I would still vote for her and not for Hillary. I understand nuance and shit. djean111 Sep 2014 #29

Doesn't matter. Enough people don't understand nuance and shit. nt stevenleser Sep 2014 #33

Nuance: kill without being killed. Nice, clean, sanitized war in perpetuity. FlatStanley Sep 2014 #156

No. In this case Nuance = in favor of airstrikes, not in favor of arming Syrian rebels. nt stevenleser Sep 2014 #166

In favor of death and destruction, very nuanced indeed. FlatStanley Sep 2014 #182

Nuance has nothing to do with particular topic only that two statements are close but subtly stevenleser Sep 2014 #184

They are only subtly different in that one supports death only (armed rebels) FlatStanley Sep 2014 #189

Nearly everyone here does. berni_mccoy Sep 2014 #34

I just believe going along to get along leads to nothing good. djean111 Sep 2014 #38

That's not what this vote was. nt stevenleser Sep 2014 #43

My point exactly, she said defeating ISIS was a NO 1 priority and voted against this bill. Thinkingabout Sep 2014 #61

This is BS Cartoonist Sep 2014 #95

Do you think I am an idiot? Think again, she voted with Ted Cruz. Thinkingabout Sep 2014 #99

Did you call her a paper tiger? Cartoonist Sep 2014 #111

When Elizabeth Warren introduces a bill and is never able to get it passed because Thinkingabout Sep 2014 #102

A flawed bil is a flawed bill Cartoonist Sep 2014 #112

Yep, dont count on EW to ever get the things she is interested in because she Thinkingabout Sep 2014 #115

I will politely ask a couple of questions Cartoonist Sep 2014 #117

The nuclear question has been ask and a treaty signed by many questions. Thinkingabout Sep 2014 #139

Objection! Cartoonist Sep 2014 #144

Would have, should have, could have. Thinkingabout Sep 2014 #149

She's not a serious contender anyway. taught_me_patience Sep 2014 #155

That was during the time IRAQ war had more support Heather MC Sep 2014 #36

Has nothing to do with support. Has to do with a seemingly contradictory position. nt stevenleser Sep 2014 #44

within weeks Warren's position will be mis-characterized on the left wyldwolf Sep 2014 #35

Within weeks? Heck, the OP mis-characterized it today! LOL. But I agree. nt stevenleser Sep 2014 #40

It will become dogma.Vicious arguments will ensue. Facts will be ignored. Insults will be hurled. wyldwolf Sep 2014 #41

Sad to say you are probably right. So far OP has refused to acknowledge the facts here. stevenleser Sep 2014 #49

Well, Kerry never voted against a war. merrily Sep 2014 #151

Seems like I remember that meme too... ReRe Sep 2014 #157

I agree that was an incredibly stupid thing for her to say. Glad she voted against the funding, morningfog Sep 2014 #52

She didnt vote against the funding. She is in favor of the air war. Vote was about Syrian rebels stevenleser Sep 2014 #54

Please provide a link to where other votes to fund the war have been made. morningfog Sep 2014 #57

You're the one making the assertion. Its not up to me to prove a negative. stevenleser Sep 2014 #65

LOL. They voted against a bill to fund the war. You've provided that link. morningfog Sep 2014 #67

That's not what I have been saying and its not what the bill says. nt stevenleser Sep 2014 #78

READ what she said. She is talking about intelligence and diplomacy NOT BOMBS Maven Sep 2014 #141

Only if you make stuff up. "Warren says she supports Obama's decision to authorize airstrikes" stevenleser Sep 2014 #165

"In Iraq." That may be where she draws the line. morningfog Sep 2014 #209

Has anyone suggested an viable alternative action? Ineeda Sep 2014 #13

Assad's army and militias are fighting them. CJCRANE Sep 2014 #16

Thanks. n/t Ineeda Sep 2014 #22

Interesting argument, since Sanders and Warren voted against helping the militias. nt stevenleser Sep 2014 #24

To clarify: Assad's army and Pro-Assad militias CJCRANE Sep 2014 #37

I like Bernie's take: Maedhros Sep 2014 #88

Sanders Says: grahamhgreen Sep 2014 #91

They only voted against arming Syrian rebels. You should edit your OP. stevenleser Sep 2014 #20

Were there separate recorded votes on these separate strategies? Fred Sanders Sep 2014 #32

So far, only the arming of the Syrian Rebels has come up for a vote. HJ 124 stevenleser Sep 2014 #42

Absolutely not. morningfog Sep 2014 #50

Your call. That decision suggests you have little regard for facts and the truth. stevenleser Sep 2014 #51

Steve. They voted against funding this war. How is that inaccurate? morningfog Sep 2014 #53

No, they didn't. They voted against arming Syrian rebels. They are in favor of air war stevenleser Sep 2014 #58

Where did she vote to fund the war? morningfog Sep 2014 #59

Its not going to work. Everyone can see the truth from the link to the full bill text. nt stevenleser Sep 2014 #62

The full bill is the first and only funding bill for this war so far. morningfog Sep 2014 #66

No, it only was to fund Syrian rebels. The other problem you have is Warrens comments both before stevenleser Sep 2014 #68

The bill, and this OP is about FUNDING. FUNDING. FUNDING. morningfog Sep 2014 #69

No. It's a general budget appropriations for everything the govt normally does + funding the rebels stevenleser Sep 2014 #72

Thank you, steve, for FINALLY conceding that the bill included funding the rebels. morningfog Sep 2014 #74

I've been saying that all along. Nice try at moving the goalposts. nt stevenleser Sep 2014 #77

They also voted for funding Bibi's war/slaughter, not to forget that. Fred Sanders Sep 2014 #30

I'm not sure the OP really cares about the real facts. They are pushing this narrative that stevenleser Sep 2014 #48

The only narrative I am pushing is that they voted against funding the war. morningfog Sep 2014 #55

You're also pushing psychic predictions of doom... tridim Sep 2014 #63

There is no dispute that we will still be in this war in 3 years. morningfog Sep 2014 #71

It's FUD... tridim Sep 2014 #76

Pushing the narrative, eventually, that we should Vote For Hillary. IMO, etc. djean111 Sep 2014 #56

Give it up Leser. Everyone knows your agenda here. n/t Dawgs Sep 2014 #60

What I believe is irrelevant. I posted the full text of the bill. nt stevenleser Sep 2014 #64

And he's so bad at it. morningfog Sep 2014 #70

Except, I'm 100% supported by the actual bill. You keep running into that problem. nt stevenleser Sep 2014 #73

I don't understand you. I really don't. I have never seen anyone morningfog Sep 2014 #75

My only confusion is whether you really don't get it or are deliberately trolling. stevenleser Sep 2014 #79

Thanks for all the kicks. morningfog Sep 2014 #81

You should look at the jury results to see what a wider group of DUers think. stevenleser Sep 2014 #84

There is no reason to delete or edit the OP. Thanks for the kick. morningfog Sep 2014 #85

Kicking again. nt stevenleser Sep 2014 #87

Jury results: sufrommich Sep 2014 #82

Good jury. nt Bobbie Jo Sep 2014 #178

This message was self-deleted by its author Bobbie Jo Sep 2014 #83

maybe they think Hamas has done more Damage to Israel than ISIS has to Syria and Iraq JI7 Sep 2014 #154

Reasonable. blkmusclmachine Sep 2014 #39

Thanks President Sanders and VP Warren! TheNutcracker Sep 2014 #90

Thanks to all who voted against funding Obama's War bigwillq Sep 2014 #92

Kicked and recommended! Enthusiast Sep 2014 #93

Good for them Jack Rabbit Sep 2014 #96

Good for them. About time to cut off the funding for all these wars which only make us LESS SECURE. sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #97

Senators Warren and Sanders still support attacking ISIS FrodosPet Sep 2014 #136

and his Generals feel he is not going far enough! VanillaRhapsody Sep 2014 #101

sois Warren running for President too underthematrix Sep 2014 #105

For Warren, Sanders and Markey, that vote was not a risk. merrily Sep 2014 #106

So you're saying there were ineffective at leading the senate to no vote. aikoaiko Sep 2014 #107

All I'm saying is they voted against it. morningfog Sep 2014 #116

K&R DesertFlower Sep 2014 #108

Bullshit. Bernie and Elizabeth stand with the President against ISIS Cha Sep 2014 #109

Townhall? Really? neverforget Sep 2014 #110

.. Bernie is talking to Thom Hartman.. got anything to say about that? and Elizabeth supports Cha Sep 2014 #113

You used Townhall as link in your previous post. I was hoping you would change that but neverforget Sep 2014 #118

She seems to have gotten the attention of conservative press. ucrdem Sep 2014 #122

Thanks ucrdem.. I found a source from Cha Sep 2014 #129

I've seen worse sources used. ucrdem Sep 2014 #131

I will edit it.. busy getting you another source.. You're welcome. Cha Sep 2014 #124

Thank you, Cha! neverforget Sep 2014 #125

Thank you, neverforget! Cha Sep 2014 #127

We'll see how they each vote on the Syrian AUMF in a couple months. morningfog Sep 2014 #121

Thank you CHA and STEVEN LESER for putting out the facts Number23 Sep 2014 #134

You're Welcome, 23! Cha Sep 2014 #138

The facts are simple: arming and training rebels is a KEY part of the war plan and morningfog Sep 2014 #143

Your spin will not work. nt stevenleser Sep 2014 #168

There us no spin, except in your mind. morningfog Sep 2014 #174

Many DUers are thanking me here for correcting the misinformation you gave them in your OP stevenleser Sep 2014 #183

This disconnect is incredible. Let's work through this. morningfog Sep 2014 #185

Any response to my post #185? morningfog Sep 2014 #190

You're welcome. Few buy this bizarre attempt at spin by the OP. And it doesnt change the facts. stevenleser Sep 2014 #169

The facts are straight. They voted against the first and only morningfog Sep 2014 #114

No, Bernie and Elizabeth stand with the President against ISIS and Voted against arming the Cha Sep 2014 #120

They stand with him bit opposed a key part of the morningfog Sep 2014 #123

You are seriously confused Cartoonist Sep 2014 #135

I am not confused. Arming and training the rebels is part of the war plan. morningfog Sep 2014 #140

The war plan Cartoonist Sep 2014 #145

Oh, I think it is a stupid stupid plan. I think Sanders and Warren voted the correct way. morningfog Sep 2014 #146

You didn't include a sarcasm logo Cartoonist Sep 2014 #147

I think she, as most, vastly overstate the IS threat. morningfog Sep 2014 #148

I have no solution to the troubles of the World Cartoonist Sep 2014 #150

I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. ucrdem Sep 2014 #132

Exactly. When it was time support with the vote for money, they voted no.. morningfog Sep 2014 #142

There is no doubt to have. All Democratic senators are in favor of the air war. stevenleser Sep 2014 #171

Unfortunately this vote was a pretty decisive rejection of their earlier positions. ucrdem Sep 2014 #173

As I noted upthread, its not a change or rejection. They want the airwar, they dont want to arm stevenleser Sep 2014 #180

Yes, I understand, but that's a reversal of what Warren said on Sept. 3. ucrdem Sep 2014 #181

Exactly. This is not complicated stuff. morningfog Sep 2014 #188

Time will tell I suppose. ucrdem Sep 2014 #201

So did Mark Begich. Blue_In_AK Sep 2014 #137

K&R NealK Sep 2014 #159

That's all I need to know. nt snot Sep 2014 #160

Reading DU these days ... NanceGreggs Sep 2014 #161

Fox News wants Shock & Awe II. CJCRANE Sep 2014 #162

I was talking about ... NanceGreggs Sep 2014 #163

That's silly. Did they vote to fund this part of the war plan? morningfog Sep 2014 #175

Too late to be coy, my friend. NanceGreggs Sep 2014 #191

Lol! Nothing coy. morningfog Sep 2014 #194

I thought you just said ... NanceGreggs Sep 2014 #195

Whose war is it? rug Sep 2014 #196

Apparently ... NanceGreggs Sep 2014 #198

No, it's directed to you. rug Sep 2014 #200

Exactly where ... NanceGreggs Sep 2014 #202

"Sens. Warren and Sanders voted against funding Obama's War." rug Sep 2014 #204

The problem seems to be that since this wasn't a vote to fund morningfog Sep 2014 #215

When you want to hide war aims, you submit a funding bill or propose a procedural rule. rug Sep 2014 #216

The quotes around the entire sentence ... NanceGreggs Sep 2014 #217

Are you now able to answer the question in the second half of the post? rug Sep 2014 #219

About it being called "Obama's war"? NanceGreggs Sep 2014 #224

I'll take that as a yes. rug Sep 2014 #226

You can take it anyway you desire ... NanceGreggs Sep 2014 #227

Thanks for replying that you don't care. rug Sep 2014 #228

She'll have you know she really really really really really doesn't care. morningfog Sep 2014 #229

I'm touched she took the time. rug Sep 2014 #230

I thought my not caring ... NanceGreggs Sep 2014 #231

What is abundantly clear is that you care for no one's opinion but your own. rug Sep 2014 #232

"You care for no one's opinion but your own." NanceGreggs Sep 2014 #233

So is your accusing Manny of aeeking attention. rug Sep 2014 #234

Please post a link to where they voted to fund any part of the war. morningfog Sep 2014 #214

Where did I say ... NanceGreggs Sep 2014 #218

You wrote this: morningfog Sep 2014 #220

Such bullshit. Show me where there has been any other morningfog Sep 2014 #210

Denial and double thought is so boring. morningfog Sep 2014 #197

For once we agree. NanceGreggs Sep 2014 #199

I notice it attracted you. nt Union Scribe Sep 2014 #177

The obvious misrepresentation of facts ... NanceGreggs Sep 2014 #192

It is clear that you just don't understand the words in the post. morningfog Sep 2014 #222

You've moved those goalpost so many times ... NanceGreggs Sep 2014 #223

What stupid tortured bullshit. I give up. morningfog Sep 2014 #225

Kudo for both Warren and Sanders deafskeptic Sep 2014 #164

Sanders and Warren are in favor of the airwar. This vote was just about arming the Syrian rebels. nt stevenleser Sep 2014 #167

thanks for the correction. n/t deafskeptic Sep 2014 #172

You're pretty wound up about this. nt Union Scribe Sep 2014 #176

He's so wound up, he's holding contradictory positions. morningfog Sep 2014 #186

When they start that, just cite Sanders' office Union Scribe Sep 2014 #212

That should be its own OP. morningfog Sep 2014 #213

Sanders and Warren are in favor of going after IS. I have never suggested otherwise. morningfog Sep 2014 #187

Er, no they didn't. The Syrian rebel deal is only a part of the war, not the war itself. TwilightGardener Sep 2014 #193

honorable mention Barbara Lee Man from Pickens Sep 2014 #203

They must be running for POTUS. Rex Sep 2014 #205

Seems that way. Gillibrand, Cruz and Paul voted no, too. morningfog Sep 2014 #207

At least Hillary won't have this to contend with yeoman6987 Sep 2014 #206

Or it will work against her. When her public statements morningfog Sep 2014 #208

That could happen yeoman6987 Sep 2014 #211