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In reply to the discussion: Emma Watson: Feminism can never succeed unless men are part of the conversation [View all]Violet_Crumble
(36,385 posts)213. The title of the OP was misleading. You need to read or watch her speech...
The links were posted in the OP, but I'm not understanding why you'd be so dismissive of Emma Watson if you'd read or watched it. She's not saying feminists are man-haters. She's saying there's a perception out there that feminists are man-haters, and that perception needs to stop.
Please read her speech, because I don't see what you'd object to in it. I'll post the entire speech, as it was buried at the bottom of one of the linked pages in the OP...
Today we are launching a campaign HeForShe. I am reaching out to you because we need your help. We must try to mobilize as many men and boys as possible to be advocates for change. We dont just want to talk about it. We want to try and make sure its tangible. I was appointed as Goodwill Ambassador for UN Women 6 months ago.
The more I spoke about feminism, the more I realized that fighting for womens rights has too often become synonymous with man-hating. If there is one thing I know for certain is that this has to stop. For the record, feminism by definition is the belief that men and women should have equal rights and opportunities. It is the theory of political, economic and social equality of the sexes.
When I was 8, I was called bossy because I wanted to direct a play we would put on for our parents. When at 14, I started to be sexualized by certain elements of the media. At 15, my girlfriends started dropping out of sports teams because they didnt want to appear masculine. At 18, my male friends were unable to express their feelings.
I decided that I was a feminist. This seemed uncomplicated to me. But my recent research has shown me that feminism has become an unpopular word. Women are choosing not to identify as feminists. Apparently, [womens expression is] seen as too strong, too aggressive, isolating, and anti-men, unattractive even.
Why has the word become such an uncomfortable one? I think it is right I am paid the same as my male counterparts. I think it is right that I should be able to make decisions about my own body. I think it is right that women be involved on my behalf in the policies and decisions that will affect my life. I think it is right that socially, I am afforded the same respect as men.
But sadly, I can say that there is no one country in the world where all women can expect to see these rights. No country in the world can yet say that they achieved gender equality. These rights are considered to be human rights but I am one of the lucky ones.
My life is a sheer privilege because my parents didnt love me less because I was born a daughter. My school did not limit me because I was a girl. My mentors didn't assume that I would go less far because I might give birth to a child one day. These influences are the gender equality ambassadors that made me who I am today. They may not know it but they are the inadvertent feminists needed in the world today. We need more of those.
If you still hate the word, it is not the word that is important. It is the idea and the ambition behind it because not all women have received the same rights I have. In fact, statistically, very few have.
In 1997, Hillary Clinton made a famous speech in Beijing about womens rights. Sadly, many of the things that she wanted to change are still true today. What struck me the most was that less than 30% of the audience were male. How can we effect change in the world when only half of it is invited or being welcomed to participate in the conversation?
Men, I would like to give this opportunity to extend your formal invitation. Gender equality is your issue, too. Because to date, Ive seen my fathers role as a parent being valued less by society. Ive seen young men suffering from mental illness, unable to ask for help for fear it would make them less of a man. In fact, in the UK, suicide is the biggest killer of men between 20 to 49, eclipsing road accidents, cancer and heart disease. Ive seen men fragile and insecure by what constitutes male success. Men dont have the benefits of equality, either.
We dont often talk about men being imprisoned by gender stereotypes but I can see that they are. When they are free, things will change for women as a natural consequence. If men dont have to be aggressive in order to be accepted, women wont feel compelled to be submissive. If men dont have to control, women wont have to be controlled.
Both men and women should feel free to be sensitive. Both men and women should feel free to be strong. It is time that we all see gender as a spectrum instead of two sets of opposing ideals. We should stop defining each other by what we are not and start defining ourselves by who we are. We can all be freer and this is what HeForShe is about. Its about freedom. I want men to take up this mantle so that their daughters, sisters and mothers can be free from prejudice but also so that their sons have permission to be vulnerable and human too, reclaim parts of themselves they abandoned and in doing so, be a more true and complete version of themselves.
You might think: who is this Harry Potter girl? What is she doing at the UN? Ive been asking myself the same thing. All I know is that I care about this problem and I want to make it better. And having seen what Ive seen and given the chance, I feel it is my responsibility to say something. Statesman Edmund Burke said all that is need for the forces of evil to triumph is for good men and women to do nothing.
In my nervousness for this speech and in my moments of doubt, I told myself firmly: if not me, who? If not now, when? If you cast doubts when opportunity is presented to you, I hope those words will be helpful. Because the reality is if we do nothing, it will take 75 years or maybe 100 before women can expect to be paid the same as men for the same work. 15.5 million girls will be married in the next 16 years as children. And at current rates, it won't be until 2086 before all rural African girls can have a secondary education.
If you believe in equality, you might be one of the inadvertent feminists I spoke of earlier and for this I appraud you. We must strive for a united world but the good news is we have a platform. It is called HeForShe. I invite you to step forward, to be seen and I ask yourself: if not me, who? If not now, when? Thank you.
http://www.rappler.com/world/regions/us-canada/69726-emma-watson-gender-equality
The more I spoke about feminism, the more I realized that fighting for womens rights has too often become synonymous with man-hating. If there is one thing I know for certain is that this has to stop. For the record, feminism by definition is the belief that men and women should have equal rights and opportunities. It is the theory of political, economic and social equality of the sexes.
When I was 8, I was called bossy because I wanted to direct a play we would put on for our parents. When at 14, I started to be sexualized by certain elements of the media. At 15, my girlfriends started dropping out of sports teams because they didnt want to appear masculine. At 18, my male friends were unable to express their feelings.
I decided that I was a feminist. This seemed uncomplicated to me. But my recent research has shown me that feminism has become an unpopular word. Women are choosing not to identify as feminists. Apparently, [womens expression is] seen as too strong, too aggressive, isolating, and anti-men, unattractive even.
Why has the word become such an uncomfortable one? I think it is right I am paid the same as my male counterparts. I think it is right that I should be able to make decisions about my own body. I think it is right that women be involved on my behalf in the policies and decisions that will affect my life. I think it is right that socially, I am afforded the same respect as men.
But sadly, I can say that there is no one country in the world where all women can expect to see these rights. No country in the world can yet say that they achieved gender equality. These rights are considered to be human rights but I am one of the lucky ones.
My life is a sheer privilege because my parents didnt love me less because I was born a daughter. My school did not limit me because I was a girl. My mentors didn't assume that I would go less far because I might give birth to a child one day. These influences are the gender equality ambassadors that made me who I am today. They may not know it but they are the inadvertent feminists needed in the world today. We need more of those.
If you still hate the word, it is not the word that is important. It is the idea and the ambition behind it because not all women have received the same rights I have. In fact, statistically, very few have.
In 1997, Hillary Clinton made a famous speech in Beijing about womens rights. Sadly, many of the things that she wanted to change are still true today. What struck me the most was that less than 30% of the audience were male. How can we effect change in the world when only half of it is invited or being welcomed to participate in the conversation?
Men, I would like to give this opportunity to extend your formal invitation. Gender equality is your issue, too. Because to date, Ive seen my fathers role as a parent being valued less by society. Ive seen young men suffering from mental illness, unable to ask for help for fear it would make them less of a man. In fact, in the UK, suicide is the biggest killer of men between 20 to 49, eclipsing road accidents, cancer and heart disease. Ive seen men fragile and insecure by what constitutes male success. Men dont have the benefits of equality, either.
We dont often talk about men being imprisoned by gender stereotypes but I can see that they are. When they are free, things will change for women as a natural consequence. If men dont have to be aggressive in order to be accepted, women wont feel compelled to be submissive. If men dont have to control, women wont have to be controlled.
Both men and women should feel free to be sensitive. Both men and women should feel free to be strong. It is time that we all see gender as a spectrum instead of two sets of opposing ideals. We should stop defining each other by what we are not and start defining ourselves by who we are. We can all be freer and this is what HeForShe is about. Its about freedom. I want men to take up this mantle so that their daughters, sisters and mothers can be free from prejudice but also so that their sons have permission to be vulnerable and human too, reclaim parts of themselves they abandoned and in doing so, be a more true and complete version of themselves.
You might think: who is this Harry Potter girl? What is she doing at the UN? Ive been asking myself the same thing. All I know is that I care about this problem and I want to make it better. And having seen what Ive seen and given the chance, I feel it is my responsibility to say something. Statesman Edmund Burke said all that is need for the forces of evil to triumph is for good men and women to do nothing.
In my nervousness for this speech and in my moments of doubt, I told myself firmly: if not me, who? If not now, when? If you cast doubts when opportunity is presented to you, I hope those words will be helpful. Because the reality is if we do nothing, it will take 75 years or maybe 100 before women can expect to be paid the same as men for the same work. 15.5 million girls will be married in the next 16 years as children. And at current rates, it won't be until 2086 before all rural African girls can have a secondary education.
If you believe in equality, you might be one of the inadvertent feminists I spoke of earlier and for this I appraud you. We must strive for a united world but the good news is we have a platform. It is called HeForShe. I invite you to step forward, to be seen and I ask yourself: if not me, who? If not now, when? Thank you.
http://www.rappler.com/world/regions/us-canada/69726-emma-watson-gender-equality
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Emma Watson: Feminism can never succeed unless men are part of the conversation [View all]
davidn3600
Sep 2014
OP
Who doesn't talk about imprisoned male gender role stereotypes. Of course it is a huge issue in
seabeyond
Sep 2014
#1
Any woman thinks its easy being a man, read this book about a woman that lived as a man
AZ Progressive
Sep 2014
#8
exactly the point i am making. of course they are. so when addressing feminism,
seabeyond
Sep 2014
#11
Yes, including things like the nasty term "Mansplaining" if you dare to disagree. nt
stevenleser
Sep 2014
#16
Don't create strawmen. Using inappropriate and gender biased language is wrong.
stevenleser
Sep 2014
#78
the language was created for a reason, more than a decade ago. it has been called
seabeyond
Sep 2014
#82
All bigoted and biased terms were created for a "reason". To be hateful and dismissive.
stevenleser
Sep 2014
#94
It's easy to prove. Do you use it because you want to engage the person's argument? No.
stevenleser
Sep 2014
#100
I have several problems with that. First is that a gender biased term is not needed to describe it
stevenleser
Sep 2014
#128
I never remotely suggested it was created in a vacuum. Few issues of bias are created in a vacuum
stevenleser
Sep 2014
#137
Personally, I see "sex-positive"/"sex-negative" as a classic false dichotomy.
nomorenomore08
Sep 2014
#170
What I mean by "false dichotomy" is that it's an oversimplification. Whether intentional or not.
nomorenomore08
Sep 2014
#178
Like seeing male-female relationships as a predator/prey dynamic, rather than something more nuanced
nomorenomore08
Sep 2014
#185
"So long as only consenting adults are involved, people should not be shamed..."
nomorenomore08
Sep 2014
#195
and i look at the men in this thread. some i like or respect at the least. and i know....
seabeyond
Sep 2014
#70
Reading comprehension 101: She was not referring to a subset of feminism who are man-haters
justiceischeap
Sep 2014
#57
another point. the obvious. feminist has never been a large group. never near a majority.
seabeyond
Sep 2014
#75
thanks-I knew the OP spinned it because the edit is so off/ choppy, her speech seemed so rudimentary
bettyellen
Sep 2014
#84
it has always ben, since the invention of feminism, the majority that tune feminist out because they
seabeyond
Sep 2014
#152
hence the ability to make a video grabbing young women/girls ass and laugh. or...
seabeyond
Sep 2014
#119
Yes, I do think objectification occurs every time someone has "the hots" for a stranger.
Threedifferentones
Sep 2014
#60
There's a big difference between "having the hots" for someone, and treating them as less than
nomorenomore08
Sep 2014
#179
Sure there are. But conflating feminists in general with that subgroup of them, is bullshit. n/t
nomorenomore08
Sep 2014
#180
To me, it seems like most of the trouble between the sexes is not following a very old saying.
BlueJazz
Sep 2014
#35
What you say is quite true. I'll never know the full range of what sexism has done or even...
BlueJazz
Sep 2014
#44
I don't think you understand what patriarchal culture actually is after reading this.
bettyellen
Sep 2014
#102
Yes, and it was also what her mom did to her dad and etc. Turtles all the way down, I get it.
Bonobo
Sep 2014
#104
it's also the institutionalized power structure men have created and continue to hold onto...
bettyellen
Sep 2014
#108
"Feminism" definitely does recognize that and I think that is a big part of Emma Watson's point.
Threedifferentones
Sep 2014
#61
Hi, a quick question, was it your alert? I have seen a couple, but not often and mostly by trolls
uppityperson
Sep 2014
#122
Your comment is exactly what Emma Watson was referring to that has some women upset in this thread
justiceischeap
Sep 2014
#59
"It's their lack of willingness to move rather than men stopping them from doing so."
YoungDemCA
Sep 2014
#115
That only applies if "patriarchy" and "men" are exact synonyms. Which they're not. n/t
nomorenomore08
Sep 2014
#186
serious? so, this would be like those... hysterical, emotional, non thinking, ... women? nt
seabeyond
Sep 2014
#77
Are you betraying a little self hatred here? "the masculine ethos or culture seems so corrupted...
bettyellen
Sep 2014
#87
"some are going to be more defensive and reactive then others. Those women who lash out at men I..."
bettyellen
Sep 2014
#175
i think the issue is we are continually defined in this manner to the extent of emotionally damaged
seabeyond
Sep 2014
#228
And when used in that way, to shut down expression, I agree, that would be abusive
Shankapotomus
Sep 2014
#230
btw, i think there are a couple names that took it was a weapon, just as we suggest, rather
seabeyond
Sep 2014
#232
I know you mean well, but this post comes across as awfullly patronizing.
nomorenomore08
Sep 2014
#190
I see what you're saying. But why should those extreme statements be conflated with "feminism"
nomorenomore08
Sep 2014
#198
seriously. hte men in this thread, are bothered we do not listen, and as i listen, i am hearing
seabeyond
Sep 2014
#80
I agree but it will never succeed if women aren't a part of the conversation either
LynneSin
Sep 2014
#72
The title of the OP was misleading. You need to read or watch her speech...
Violet_Crumble
Sep 2014
#213
Yes, men need to participate. No, men's issues do not come first. No, men do not get to lead.
seaglass
Sep 2014
#81
It's like some are so used to being listened/catered to that they can't fathom giving someone
nomorenomore08
Sep 2014
#194
hackers into phones, or cloud, i am assuming. women have been threatened and violated in
seabeyond
Sep 2014
#101
humiliate and degrade thru a womans sexuality. that is the only weapon these men have.
seabeyond
Sep 2014
#99
like having to reduce voice in womens issues to merely the few hof women, regardless
seabeyond
Sep 2014
#105
There they go again, sea. Their goal is never understanding. It's getting posts hidden.
R B Garr
Sep 2014
#130
Feminists need to get respectable male figures involved in this to increase the chances of success
AZ Progressive
Sep 2014
#110
there fear of losing the man card i think is the true vast majority. if they can get over
seabeyond
Sep 2014
#123
The blatant hypocrisy in the feminist movement is the reason the label is tarnished
davidn3600
Sep 2014
#139
this has been the case from the beginning of suffragate to today. this is not new.
seabeyond
Sep 2014
#153
And you've yet to answer to any of the examples of hypocrisy that have mentioned in this thread
davidn3600
Sep 2014
#174
No, but it sure sounds like something someone trolling feminist issues would say. n/t
JTFrog
Sep 2014
#199
Hi, you haven't met me yet. I'm a feminist. What have I done to you to make you take me less
justiceischeap
Sep 2014
#216
How can one have a civil discussion with someone who already seems to have pre-conceived notions
justiceischeap
Sep 2014
#227
you called me irrational. that is against the rules as is putting up rape videos.
seabeyond
Sep 2014
#235