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badtoworse

(5,957 posts)
68. You're overlooking a few points
Wed Sep 24, 2014, 10:01 AM
Sep 2014

First and foremost, the borrower took out the loan and agreed to pay it back under the terms of the agreement. That last part is important for two reasons: First, the agreement defines the consequences if the borrower defaults on the loan. By agreeing to those terms, the borrower agrees to pay the stated fees and penalties in the event they default. Secondly, under the agreement, the lender would reserve the right to assign the loan to a third party under whatever terms are agreed to by the lender and the third party. As a result, the borrower's obligation to repay is intrinsic to the loan itself and does not depend on who is holding the loan. In addition, the lender does not need your approval to assign and the terms under which the loan is assigned are none of your business. That's the deal. If you don't like it, then negotiate a different deal (good luck with that) or don't borrow the money. If you do agree to those terms, don't whine about how unfair it is if things go sour for you. Borrowing money is a big deal. If you don't understand the terms of the loan, you shouldn't agree to it and you are pretty stupid if you do so.

Let's consider who gets hurt in a default situation. Regardless of who is holding the loan, whoever eats the loss in a default situation is going to write off that loss on their taxes. If you default on a $100 loan and the holder of the loan writes it off, that is $35 in federal income tax they don't pay, so we all take a hit on that. If a Credit Default Swap is triggered, the swap counterparty pays off the loan to the bank and gets the defaulted loan in return. The bank is kept whole, but because it no longer holds the loan, it can't be paid back twice. The swap counterparty still eats a $65 loss which it makes up with the swap premiums. Who pays the swap premiums? Initially banks do, but ultimately, borrowers do in the form of higher of higher loan or credit card fees.

Let's say the holder of the loan sells it to a collection agency for $0.03 on the dollar. That $0.03 value is based on the cost of pursuing collection as well as the likelihood of collecting anything. In this situation, the bank or swap counterparty would write off a little less and the collection agency would pay tax if they make any money on the loans. That $0.97 loss in the value of the loan was triggered by the borrowers failure to honor the contract. There is no basis to argue that the borrower's obligation to pay off the loan should be reduced to $0.03 nor would there be any fairness if that were to happen.

I don't see any racket here. Banks and credit card companies are in business and that means they are going to protect their own interests and structure loans in a way that does that. If the penalties for default are too severe, then the fix is set reasonable legal limits; not let the borrowers off the hook because the lenders are protected. No one forced the borrower to take out the and in the end, we're the ones who get burned by the ones who default.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Simple solution: If you're carrying debt, pay it off. badtoworse Sep 2014 #1
Overly simple solution tkmorris Sep 2014 #2
If you're going to lose part of your check to a garnishment,... badtoworse Sep 2014 #5
In other words, choose to pay your debt rather than eat AZ Progressive Sep 2014 #14
If you're dealing with a potential garnishment, a judge will decide how much can be garnished. badtoworse Sep 2014 #20
I know someone that had $2 of her $8.25 wages garnished hobbit709 Sep 2014 #21
There are two sides in a situation like this, which is why a judge makes the call. badtoworse Sep 2014 #24
You're just full of sympathy for the less fortunate aren't you. hobbit709 Sep 2014 #25
It's not just a matter of sympathy; there is also an element of fairness. badtoworse Sep 2014 #28
badtoworse, it’s a pity you lack an understanding of the debt collection racket. ms.smiler Sep 2014 #37
In the end, someone got stuck with a defaulted loan. badtoworse Sep 2014 #52
badtoworse, I’m delighted to discuss these issues with you. ms.smiler Sep 2014 #57
You're overlooking a few points badtoworse Sep 2014 #68
badtoworse, I’m enjoying our discussion, thank you. ms.smiler Sep 2014 #83
You have a lot of misconceptions about debt. I'll respond to a few of them. badtoworse Sep 2014 #84
badtoworse, after hours per day on a daily basis of research into ms.smiler Sep 2014 #85
Citi and other loan-sharks charge and get paid usurious interest on the original loan brentspeak Sep 2014 #67
you want to talk about fairness? How about wages being suppressed for decades, unions being busted, liberal_at_heart Sep 2014 #59
Everything is fair. Judges always make the right call. Nothing bad ever happens. kcr Sep 2014 #62
What an erudite response. What's your solution? badtoworse Sep 2014 #63
Knee cap them. kcr Sep 2014 #65
80% of bankruptcies are because of medical debt riderinthestorm Sep 2014 #71
IOW, no solution. badtoworse Sep 2014 #72
Recognizing a problem is the first step. kcr Sep 2014 #74
Single payer and free college education riderinthestorm Sep 2014 #75
The idea of a fresh start is that in life, closeupready Sep 2014 #77
We already have that. It's called bankruptcy. badtoworse Sep 2014 #79
Okay, so you're just here spoiling for an e-fight. closeupready Sep 2014 #80
What's wrong with bankruptcy? It addresses exactly what you posted. badtoworse Sep 2014 #81
And judges are angels sent our way to help. tecelote Sep 2014 #27
I guess it depends on whose ox is getting gored. badtoworse Sep 2014 #29
True. tecelote Sep 2014 #30
Duh. Two-income homes become one-income homes. closeupready Sep 2014 #16
Paying some of your creditors will not stop your other creditors Mariana Sep 2014 #61
You need to give that lecture to the likes of Donald Trump and Mitt Romney notadmblnd Sep 2014 #33
the only way you'd get them to pay attention would be with a clue by four. hobbit709 Sep 2014 #35
Seriously? People lose jobs, have unexpected expenses, get sick, etc. Hosnon Sep 2014 #7
More accurately, merely a 'simplistic solution'. LanternWaste Sep 2014 #9
you want to know what the simple solution is? notadmblnd Sep 2014 #34
And while you are at it save for retirement upaloopa Sep 2014 #18
Yeah ... you forgot ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2014 #31
Manicures gollygee Sep 2014 #44
Or, if you can't pay off loans, don't take out loans bhikkhu Sep 2014 #51
I agree with you - consumer debt and even mortgages are entirely too easy to obtain badtoworse Sep 2014 #53
Extremely accurate post yeoman6987 Sep 2014 #54
You're right. Paint lenders in a bad enough light and the obligation to repay a loan disappears. badtoworse Sep 2014 #69
More simple solutions: Heywood J Sep 2014 #64
Falls under the category of other "simple solutions" such as brentspeak Sep 2014 #66
and if you do get sick, die quickly. burnsei sensei Sep 2014 #76
Siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh . . . winning hearts and minds just like you know how again . . . . HughBeaumont Sep 2014 #70
ALEC rats no doubt Dont call me Shirley Sep 2014 #3
There was a recent thread claiming 10% of wage-earners closeupready Sep 2014 #4
I doubt that you're naive FBaggins Sep 2014 #32
Just for reference, here's the thread I am referring to: closeupready Sep 2014 #36
That's just about what I expected FBaggins Sep 2014 #49
It's not exactly that simple... pipoman Sep 2014 #6
And a lot of people dont show up to court to contest the debt Travis_0004 Sep 2014 #8
one stunt the collection agencies do is not properly notify you of a court date. hobbit709 Sep 2014 #12
A return of service has to be filed with the court pipoman Sep 2014 #43
Exactly. sendero Sep 2014 #26
Yeah, because I totally... bobclark86 Sep 2014 #39
that is a violation of the FDCPA Travis_0004 Sep 2014 #40
Not an option for them, and a lot of people pipoman Sep 2014 #45
coughcoughbullshitcoughcough nt Dreamer Tatum Sep 2014 #82
Yep pipoman Sep 2014 #41
One good thing about TX hobbit709 Sep 2014 #10
Texas also has very good personal bankruptcy exemptions, i.e. your house regardless of value. eom Purveyor Sep 2014 #19
People are encouraged to have child support garnished. tammywammy Sep 2014 #22
"Encouraged" meaning "required by law" since 1994. FBaggins Sep 2014 #50
Same thing here in PA Freddie Sep 2014 #56
Wow!!! Wellstone ruled Sep 2014 #11
It's mostly fear leftstreet Sep 2014 #13
People who fear should be helpful, not hostile, to others being affected AZ Progressive Sep 2014 #15
Either that, or they work in collections themselves. closeupready Sep 2014 #17
Or they are just sadists. BlindTiresias Sep 2014 #42
Don't forget bombs in the Middle East yeoman6987 Sep 2014 #55
Which will no doubt lead them to... Xolodno Sep 2014 #23
Repeal the 2005 bankruptcy reform mb999 Sep 2014 #38
There's a word for this: Brigid Sep 2014 #46
It reminds me gollygee Sep 2014 #48
except in the case of unpaid child support, wage garnishment should be illegal. nt Terra Alta Sep 2014 #47
Many years ago (1970's) I was a Bankruptcy Paralegal HeiressofBickworth Sep 2014 #58
Yes, indeed. Ignoring a problem and hoping it will just go away is not a smart choice. kcr Sep 2014 #73
Most lenders don't go to this extent davidn3600 Sep 2014 #60
I had my wages garnished once. RebelOne Sep 2014 #78
Are there certain companies that are more likely to garnish than others? Wella Sep 2014 #86
a belated k and r niyad Mar 2015 #87
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»More Lenders Are ‘Garnish...»Reply #68