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In reply to the discussion: Cindy Sheehan [View all]
 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
21. Nope. The real reason is she shares a problem with a small percentage of the anti-war crowd
Fri Apr 13, 2012, 11:04 AM
Apr 2012

To that small percentage, every war is the same and they try to place them in the same neat little box.

Everyone who is anti-war, and I am including myself here, agrees that war is to be avoided and that it indicates a failure of some sort on one or both parties.

Where Sheehan and those who agree with her fail, in my opinion, is that they are so desperate to characterize every war as 'bad' they systematically ignore any argument that contradicts them. We all (at least 99.999999%) here on DU agree that 'W's war in Iraq was unjustified and illegal and was likely about oil or other hidden agendas. We do not all agree on Afghanistan because there are legitimate arguments for why we went there. You can disagree with those arguments, but dismissing and refusing to acknowledge that other people can legitimately believe them detracts from your own credibility.

The same anti-war crowd to which Cindy belongs has recently been trying to suggest that World War II was also an illegitimate war (I am saying from the point of view of the US and the allies). It does not help the cause of being anti-war to push your position to the point of the ludicrous and bizarre.

I also thinks the focus on drones is a credibility destroying behavior. Either a war is legitimate or isnt. Focusing on a weapons system that is being used in that war that is perfectly legal (the only question of legality is who is providing the targets, something easily remedied if necessary), and in fact produces less collateral damage than other options results in a loss of credibility. Again, you have to understand a little about the military to know that the missiles the drones use are less powerful than the missiles a fighter jet would use and would produce fewer casualties than a ground assault, but people who know those things (like me) look at people who raise the drone issue and immediately know that, like anyone else who shouts at the top of their lungs without really knowing what they are talking about, they are not to be taken seriously.

To me, the way elements in the anti-war crowd approach the issue in the last 5 years resembles the way zealots approach religion.

So, yes, because of her approach and those like her, they are able to place Obama in the same box (or worse) than George W. Bush in terms of being pro-war. Of course, since FDR brought us into World War II (in recent books and articles by this group, he is responsible for us being in WWII), FDR is just as bad as George W. Bush too by their estimation. So WWII=Iraq=Vietnam=Afghanistan. All the same to this group. And that is how an anti-war heroine launches herself into obscurity.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Cindy Sheehan [View all] Kaleva Apr 2012 OP
I continue to follow what she is up to... Luminous Animal Apr 2012 #1
Hot meals shipped in from Dallas in Casey II? MuseRider Apr 2012 #2
I'm relying on memory here and if I'm wrong about anything, I'll gladly admit it. Kaleva Apr 2012 #3
You don't need to do that, MuseRider Apr 2012 #15
Well, I try to be accurate. Kaleva Apr 2012 #18
Don't worry about it it is all good. MuseRider Apr 2012 #45
She was a great anti-war heroine. shimonitanegi Apr 2012 #4
She was in my hometown abolugi Apr 2012 #5
I thought I sent some money to a pizza place to Suich Apr 2012 #6
The real reason Cindy was attacked Drubinson Apr 2012 #7
Clearly you hate President Obama, have arthritisR_US Apr 2012 #10
Are you anti-war? Where do you stand on drone attacks in Pakistan... Luminous Animal Apr 2012 #12
Rude and ugly, but three quarters true. It appeared to me more the DLC than left wing, though saras Apr 2012 #11
Looks to me like Cindy Sheehan is morally consistent more than anything else Zalatix Apr 2012 #14
If I pick up a rock and a tennis ball and call them both 'rocks' I am being consistent.But I'm wrong stevenleser Apr 2012 #30
Drones killing unarmed people without any semblance of due process is wrong. Zalatix Apr 2012 #33
When you frame the argument in a dishonest way, you get incorrect results. stevenleser Apr 2012 #34
I framed it quite honestly, and quite flawlessly, thank you. Zalatix Apr 2012 #35
No, you didnt stevenleser Apr 2012 #36
Wrong again. You failed on both counts. Zalatix Apr 2012 #37
I'm happy to stand on previous posts stevenleser Apr 2012 #54
Oh, you think far too highly of your debating skills. Zalatix Apr 2012 #55
You write this and then a few posts down you have the unmitigated gall SomethingFishy Apr 2012 #51
Yup, I do. Thankfully, you dont get to define what anti-war means. stevenleser Apr 2012 #53
What facts?! You have presented none. Zalatix Apr 2012 #58
Pres. Obama has a following, Cindy doesn't. It happens. Tarheel_Dem Apr 2012 #17
Maybe she can RISE UP and be one of the occupy leaders snooper2 Apr 2012 #19
Nope. The real reason is she shares a problem with a small percentage of the anti-war crowd stevenleser Apr 2012 #21
+100! TY for putting to words what I couldn't. arthritisR_US Apr 2012 #22
Thank you. The sad thing is that a good credible anti-war activist group is sorely needed. stevenleser Apr 2012 #24
They sure are needed! They start out fine and arthritisR_US Apr 2012 #40
FDR did not bring us into WW II. Bandit Apr 2012 #25
Yet, WWII is something that this crowd argues. Just check out Swanson's latest book "War is a Lie" stevenleser Apr 2012 #29
Actually, the European part of World War II grew directly out of resentments engendered Lydia Leftcoast Apr 2012 #60
Byeeeee... SidDithers Apr 2012 #28
Finally! I literally went out of my way hours arthritisR_US Apr 2012 #39
The last I read about her is that the IRS is going after her for tax evasion. OKDem08 Apr 2012 #8
I wish I was brave enough to do that! Luminous Animal Apr 2012 #13
Read some websites and maybe you will get the courage you seek! snooper2 Apr 2012 #20
Cindy is great. I met her at BeachImpeach. EFerrari Apr 2012 #9
"I also think she was and is her own worst enemy." Tarheel_Dem Apr 2012 #16
She is not a Naderite proud2BlibKansan Apr 2012 #41
She's a former Republican, right? Tarheel_Dem Apr 2012 #44
From the Teabagger contingent which is why Dems/Libs left her years before Obama presidency. ieoeja Apr 2012 #47
Ding! Ding! Ding! Tarheel_Dem Apr 2012 #49
Cindy Sheehan is the reason America finally woke up to the horror of the Iraq war. WilliamPitt Apr 2012 #23
I agree. The only minor bone of contention is... stevenleser Apr 2012 #26
I don't disagree WilliamPitt Apr 2012 #27
yes but Cindy brought it to nightly news while the media did not report those of us who marched xiamiam Apr 2012 #32
We were ignored by the MSM. I asked a friend recently if they remembered the huge sabrina 1 Apr 2012 #68
I don't think she woke the masses to the horrors of the Iraq War cali Apr 2012 #38
She gave up what was left of her life proud2BlibKansan Apr 2012 #42
'Cindy Sheehan is a hero' sabrina 1 Apr 2012 #66
Goddam right WilliamPitt Apr 2012 #69
Pat Tate was a vfp guy, though thinking white rose bus? Or some such. uppityperson Apr 2012 #31
Rec Typical NYC Lib Apr 2012 #43
view all Typical NYC Lib Apr 2012 #50
A lot of us are still active. broiles Apr 2012 #46
Cindy is a nice lady. H2O Man Apr 2012 #48
I love Cindy because she made GWB squirm. Cleita Apr 2012 #52
She drifted over into Tea-bag Libertarian wacko-land a while ago. Odin2005 Apr 2012 #56
She is definitely not a teabagger or a libertarian proud2BlibKansan Apr 2012 #57
Did you forget about her anti-tax nonsense??? Odin2005 Apr 2012 #59
Withholding tax payments to protest has a long tradition in this country. EFerrari Apr 2012 #61
I just remembered--Henry David Thoreau refused to pay taxes because of his opposition Lydia Leftcoast Apr 2012 #64
Yes. And in the 60s, didn't Joan Baez withhold her payments for a time? EFerrari Apr 2012 #65
This month's issue of Harper's has an article about forgetting American history Lydia Leftcoast Apr 2012 #62
There's also a way you can put the money in a special account, isn't there? proud2BlibKansan Apr 2012 #67
That doesn't make her a teabagger or a libertarian. proud2BlibKansan Apr 2012 #63
Nonsense? WilliamPitt Apr 2012 #70
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