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The Philosopher

(895 posts)
78. I'm disappointed in the President as well
Fri Apr 13, 2012, 02:21 PM
Apr 2012

but my disappointment doesn't make me a Republican nor does it make me forgetful of how the government works. And it certainly doesn't make me out of touch with reality. These are the three arguments presented by several posters on this issue and it's entirely insensitive. And, I think, that's the point. It is entirely insensitive to promote a President over people, especially a discriminated people. The following arguments are insufficient against the complaints that the President should have issued an ENDA EO and, when addressed, show they are only a defense of the President himself, not of his actions or reasons. After all, regardless of the arguments, it’s show that if you’re unhappy with the President, you’re voting for a Republican.

I’ve seen basically four arguments presented in defense of not issuing an EO. It’s possibly I’ve overlooked others, as I know I have on some that I see as irrelevant or addressed already in the responses to the four arguments.

The four are:

Argument 1: An EO can be overturned by the next President

Argument 2: An EO would invite Congress not to do its Job

Argument 3: An EO would be attacked by the SCOTUS

Argument 4: Such an attack would negate the EO's effect and stall ENDA.


Argument One uses a factual reality that's faced by all legislation and even the identity of the country. What the next four years brings cannot be guaranteed in the preceding years. We could get a Republican President; we could also get a Republican President, Congress, and Supreme Court. So if the President should be afraid to issue an EO that does good simply because the next in line can undo it, Congress should have similar fears. The fact the latter is hard to achieve than the former has no relevance: it is still a factual reality we all face. Therefore, this argument is irrelevant.

Argument Two is an absurdity. It both states that Congress is waiting for the President to issue orders, and upon failure does the job for him; and that Congress has such a view of itself that if the President made any comment or act that they see as their domain, they throw a hissy. The EO would not invite Congress not to discuss and vote upon ENDA, as an EO cannot mute the rules of Congress. Nor can it mute the importance of such a legislation, which would reach beyond the EO, and be more important. Therefore, this argument doesn't address reality (argument two, I mean).

Argument Three assumes two things: one, that if attacked it wouldn't be useful, which is wrong; two, that the President has already lost against the SCOTUS. Now, I'm not much for Republicans like most (I'm sure) of my Democratic colleagues, but just because the SCOTUS is a Republican one doesn't mean the President is an idiot. Someone would argue against the EO and the President would argue back, and the SCOTUS decides who has the better argument. That's it. The review by SCOTUS isn't a reason to issue an EO. In fact, it's more likely to be helpful, as it is one more point (other than the world not ending when LGBTers aren't discriminated against on the job) that ENDA should be passed.

The Fourth argument is a sub-argument of Three and a reflection of 1 and 2. If the SCOTUS reviewed, it is argued, the EO then it wouldn't be implemented and Congress would be unable to pass ENDA. This is a foolish argument, for in order to be reviewed someone must issue a complaint. Then the complainer would have to provide proof of a problem with the EO. It would be nice if, like with Health Care legislation, such proof was aired out in public. Because, in my lifetime at least, 2012 has been nice to showing idiots are idiots to the public like no other year.

There's also a bit of reality that hampers the fourth argument: Irritatingly, the Log Cabin Republicans were suing the government over DADT. They were trying to overturn the legislation before the repeal. They also did it during the repeal and after the repeal, as they won the case months after the President signed the repeal into law. There's no reason why ENDA cannot be passed if the EO is being reviewed by Congress.

And let us not forget that SCOTUS can review legislation at any time. Providing someone makes a (relevant) argument.

Whether or not I like the President (I do) or whether or not I voted for him and will do in the future (I did and will) is irrelevant to the issue at hand. He should have issued the EO and relieved a pressure on a discriminated group and provided one more piece of evidence that ENDA would not destroy the economy or the country.


Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

So does this means he's "devolving" on the issue? vi5 Apr 2012 #1
He disappoints more than gays on this. He disappoints any straight with half a brain. kestrel91316 Apr 2012 #2
If it wasn't disappointing, Purveyor wouldn't be posting it. n/t Ian David Apr 2012 #3
Go into the GLBT group and say that. Occulus Apr 2012 #8
Do you care to expand on THAT? eom Purveyor Apr 2012 #67
no... it's informative fascisthunter Apr 2012 #80
The words 'at this time' does NOT mean never. Tx4obama Apr 2012 #4
Post removed Post removed Apr 2012 #7
Exactly dbackjon Apr 2012 #10
SO WHEN THE FUCK WILL WE GET TREATED AS EQUAL? dbackjon Apr 2012 #9
perhaps tx4obama shares his views on this. Occulus Apr 2012 #16
at a convenient time to someone's political career. La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2012 #33
So 20 years from now, when it will be not risky at all... dbackjon Apr 2012 #36
or 30 or 40 or whenever is convenient for someone important La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2012 #39
I'll stick with this. FedUp_Queer Apr 2012 #52
Let me guess... dbackjon Apr 2012 #57
*Crickets* Rex Apr 2012 #55
Outrage aside, Barney Frank deserves to get EDNA passed.... msanthrope Apr 2012 #13
The EO would not effect ENDA. TriMera Apr 2012 #26
Well, it would. It would give certain 'moderate' Democrats an out that I don't think they should msanthrope Apr 2012 #34
How so? In fact it would show moderate democrats that the president expects them La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2012 #40
You do that with a phone call from the Oval Office telling them to stand up and be counted. Barney msanthrope Apr 2012 #48
ENDA has been on the table since 1994. TriMera Apr 2012 #42
The problem is that if an EO is under court challenge, it's probable that Judiciary won't take the msanthrope Apr 2012 #46
Press Sec Carney's quotes on the link below Tx4obama Apr 2012 #51
No it means, 'not now' as in ' maybe some other time'. Rex Apr 2012 #19
Rep. Frank has pending legislation on this matter. Should the President not allow him an ENDA msanthrope Apr 2012 #23
Why not join him in that victory? Can they not share it together? Rex Apr 2012 #27
It would be a win-win. See my post down-thread.n/t TriMera Apr 2012 #30
As I explained elsewhere on the thread, having two branches of msanthrope Apr 2012 #50
Why would they be tripping over each other? I fail to see it. Rex Apr 2012 #54
Did you read my other posts??? I explain the mechanism quite clearly. nt. msanthrope Apr 2012 #62
ENDA and this EO differs in scope. La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2012 #29
Thank you. n/t TriMera Apr 2012 #32
Actually, ENDA covers government workers and contractors, too. msanthrope Apr 2012 #41
Yes, i know. The EO is much limited in scope and could have been used to set La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2012 #44
So you want an EO to pre-empt an Article 1, Section 8 matter??? msanthrope Apr 2012 #58
Let me ask you something. How many times has an EO been overturned by the Courts? TriMera Apr 2012 #69
Um. This tells me you never read why. Read the Youngstown case, and when you understand msanthrope Apr 2012 #70
Du rec. Nt xchrom Apr 2012 #5
Yep. Any day now. Iggo Apr 2012 #6
Obama - doesn't give a fuck about equality dbackjon Apr 2012 #11
I disagree with you, respectfully. I think EDNA deserves a chance at passage, and if it doesn't msanthrope Apr 2012 #15
Why should we wait? dbackjon Apr 2012 #17
Why would you assume it doesn't affect me? Issuing an EO gives Congress a pass. It also allows msanthrope Apr 2012 #20
Not if he challenges Congress to extend it to ALL AMERICANS dbackjon Apr 2012 #22
I think he's shown tremendous leadership. You may disagree, I will vote for him in November. msanthrope Apr 2012 #25
Ah, the old strawman rears his head dbackjon Apr 2012 #28
what a supremely lame argument. nt La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2012 #31
If all else fails...n/t TriMera Apr 2012 #35
i think its bigoted to cast aspersions on a minority group for standing up for their rights La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2012 #37
Well, I don't disagree with the right, I just disagree with how to go about obtaining it.... msanthrope Apr 2012 #43
I especially love the part where those "loyal democrats" TriMera Apr 2012 #49
It's not the 'political process.' It's Civics. Tell me how an Article 1, Section 8 matter is best msanthrope Apr 2012 #53
Well, let's see. FedUp_Queer Apr 2012 #45
So who are you voting for???? nt msanthrope Apr 2012 #59
Mr. M. Mouse. (That is, if they count my vote with the optical scan machines.) FedUp_Queer Apr 2012 #66
I wouldn't consider an EO until Barney Frank's legislation is off the table. (HR 1397) msanthrope Apr 2012 #12
Thank you for posting the best comment on this thread. Tx4obama Apr 2012 #14
Outrage aside, I'm a girl who loves a separation of powers debate. I know our President is msanthrope Apr 2012 #18
ENDA. nt La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2012 #21
Dyslexia kicking in...I had to look a few times before I saw it....nt msanthrope Apr 2012 #24
+ bigtree Apr 2012 #38
On what planet? dsc Apr 2012 #64
So if Frank can't pass ENDA in his last term, you want EO action???? msanthrope Apr 2012 #65
We don't control the floor dsc Apr 2012 #68
So--You think a President who does not have the floor should issue EOs??? msanthrope Apr 2012 #71
No it doesn't dsc Apr 2012 #75
I don't get this one really Broderick Apr 2012 #47
As I've explained above, an EO could actually interfere with pending legslation....ENDA. msanthrope Apr 2012 #60
Ok. I hope you are right Broderick Apr 2012 #61
Good legislation is better than good press. I hope Barney Frank can do this last msanthrope Apr 2012 #63
As a gay man, I am disappointed by this. Bolo Boffin Apr 2012 #56
Pathetic gratuitous Apr 2012 #72
HERE IS WHAT OBAMA HIMSELF SAID TWO YEARS AGO ruggerson Apr 2012 #73
"my ability to make sure that the federal government is an employer that treats gays and lesbians... FreeState Apr 2012 #74
Lovely. BlueIris Apr 2012 #76
So, Barney Frank is supposed to get ENDA passed Bohunk68 Apr 2012 #77
I'm disappointed in the President as well The Philosopher Apr 2012 #78
Awesome reply! dbackjon Apr 2012 #79
Quit thinking of the EO as a miracle decree treestar Apr 2012 #81
one does not preclude the other ruggerson Apr 2012 #82
It would have shown The Philosopher Apr 2012 #83
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