General Discussion

djean111

(14,255 posts)

206. Looks to me like he has always just been about seeing people as units - and quality of life is not

Sun Sep 28, 2014, 07:49 AM

Sep 2014

as important as perceived usefulness to society. He has a triage system based on usefulness, not on severity of condition. Babies not as important as 20 year olds because we have invested time and money into 20 year olds and we can make more babies. Slippery slope, and rich babies, of course, count more than poor babies.

I don't think he is bummed out at all, I think he is deliberately starting a conversation.
He really just thinks that too many people have access to health care, and is thinking of ways to cut down access. One of those ways is to convince people that if they are no longer useful, they should check out. He is not concerned with cutting costs, just with cutting access. I think costs would go down with single payer and profit of insurance companies gone, but he loves private insurance and the profits.
He has quite a lot of papers on this sort of thing, which is why I cast a jaundiced eye on this latest one.

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Why one prominent doctor (Dr. Ezekial Emmanuel) says, "I hope to die at 75" [View all] KoKo Sep 2014 OP

We'll see what he says when he's 75. MannyGoldstein Sep 2014 #1

He's 57. rug Sep 2014 #13

Exactly. greytdemocrat Sep 2014 #82

I'm 58 And I Don't Have A Desire to Live more than another 16 or 18 years ProfessorGAC Sep 2014 #150

Yes. Putting a number on it is silly..It's all about how you feel at the time. n/t whathehell Sep 2014 #201

This is obviously a personal decision. I have no doubt their are people who are living in chronic still_one Sep 2014 #28

As a person whose next birthday is my 75th, I see no reason Cleita Sep 2014 #35

or George Burns whistler162 Sep 2014 #130

Exactly. n/t Jamastiene Sep 2014 #161

I can't really disagree with him. nomorenomore08 Sep 2014 #2

I absolutely agree. I'm 74 now and am shooting for 80 only because I'm in good health monmouth3 Sep 2014 #3

I'm only 29, but I've already begun to take my health a little more seriously than I used to. nomorenomore08 Sep 2014 #5

i always thought you were much older based on the things you post JI7 Sep 2014 #15

I guess I'm fortunate enough to have one of those brains that soaks up information like a sponge. nomorenomore08 Sep 2014 #20

That is the point. It is going to be a very personal view. If one feels good, they will have a still_one Sep 2014 #30

And if they've cared for an elderly relative with Alzheimers, pnwmom Sep 2014 #168

If your in good health now don't expect to miss 90 tech3149 Sep 2014 #67

I have seen some incredible 85 year olds yeoman6987 Sep 2014 #9

It very much depends on the person MannyGoldstein Sep 2014 #19

It certainly does. My maternal grandmother's mother lived to be almost 98, and up until the last nomorenomore08 Sep 2014 #22

I have a friend whose 84. She swims every day and rides her bicycle all Cleita Sep 2014 #38

My grandfather just turned 90 tabbycat31 Sep 2014 #81

My dear mother is 88 and still drives, shops, is already tucking gifts away for all the grandkids! TheNutcracker Sep 2014 #84

You and she are very lucky. I'm sure you realize that, though. nomorenomore08 Sep 2014 #103

You're so right...I'm so lucky and blessed to still have her so whole, and to have her genes!!! TheNutcracker Sep 2014 #187

i agree. i'm 73 and have minor health DesertFlower Sep 2014 #120

I'm 70, and I put that age at 84. I'm still learning a lot, especially physically enough Sep 2014 #4

assuming i looked up the right one he is currently 57 years old JI7 Sep 2014 #12

I can't afford to live much longer than that. smirkymonkey Sep 2014 #6

i agree about the quality of life thing but 75 seems a bit young these days JI7 Sep 2014 #7

Damn straight! randome Sep 2014 #11

Sounds like he's clinically depressed. MADem Sep 2014 #8

My reaction exactly - TBF Sep 2014 #16

Spot on. Puzzledtraveller Sep 2014 #105

^^^THIS^^^. Well said. It's exactly this shit he's selling. nt valerief Sep 2014 #125

Do you know anyone in chronic pain? still_one Sep 2014 #32

Did this guy say he was suffering any kind of debilitating illness? That he was IN "chronic pain?" MADem Sep 2014 #44

That is the issue. It is a personal choice still_one Sep 2014 #50

No. According to the article, that is NOT the issue he's discussing. He flat out said as much IN MADem Sep 2014 #65

No, he explicitly says it IS a personal choice muriel_volestrangler Sep 2014 #133

You don't think there wasn't even a tiny hint of moralizing in his statement? kcr Sep 2014 #199

There's moralizing every time anyone writes an opinion piece muriel_volestrangler Sep 2014 #202

I agree. kcr Sep 2014 #58

I think people should be allowed to live as long as they want to...I don't like this idea that MADem Sep 2014 #192

agree 100% nt steve2470 Sep 2014 #196

You'll love this kcr Sep 2014 #198

What a WONDERFUL FIND!!! Thanks for including that in this thread--a MUST READ!! MADem Sep 2014 #200

44% of people between 75 and 84 have Alzheimers, and some of them, of course, pnwmom Sep 2014 #169

Not in my neighborhood. And not according to the Altzheimer's Association, either. MADem Sep 2014 #178

Where did you get your statistics? Here is my link: pnwmom Sep 2014 #179

Your link says that, of people with Alzheimer's, 44% of them are between 75 and 84 muriel_volestrangler Sep 2014 #186

From the Altzheimer's Association. I provided the link within the post. And it's not "30 or 40." MADem Sep 2014 #189

I am in chronic pain myself - TBF Sep 2014 #52

All I am saying is it is a personal issue. No one should decide what is right for someone else and still_one Sep 2014 #60

Yup - especially when the health of Baby Boomers TBF Sep 2014 #61

He isn't saying that. It has nothing to do with midterms. It is one doctors view still_one Sep 2014 #71

One doctor - but he happens to be the brother TBF Sep 2014 #134

politically it is a non-issue, because it has nothing to do with the politics you are inferring as still_one Sep 2014 #138

The MSM covered Obamacare - TBF Sep 2014 #139

This is a different issue. It isn't about the ACA. Just how many headline are you seeing regarding still_one Sep 2014 #143

Not about the ACA yet - but why is Zeke Emmanuel talking TBF Sep 2014 #148

I think it is his personal view. Regardless we just disagree on the impact it will have still_one Sep 2014 #149

As long as it stays his personal view TBF Sep 2014 #157

I hear you. You do realize if they did try to put that as part of the ACA it would fly like a lead still_one Sep 2014 #160

i agree. i've been a long time member of DesertFlower Sep 2014 #121

FFS. What a joke this place is. nt Logical Sep 2014 #33

MADem, I won't argue with you about the likelihood the guy is depressed, enough Sep 2014 #34

I know people in their nineties who are sharper than I was in my thirties, forties and fifties. MADem Sep 2014 #41

If anything they will put more restrictions on people end of life decisions still_one Sep 2014 #62

He is NOT talking about euthanasia. He specifically excludes it in his article. MADem Sep 2014 #70

He also makes it clear he is speaking for himself. So you disagree with his position, most will in still_one Sep 2014 #76

We all speak for ourselves--most of us don't do it in a position piece in the ATLANTIC that is MADem Sep 2014 #85

Post removed Post removed Sep 2014 #140

He's 57, not 75, and he doesn't sound depressed to me. Just realistic. pnwmom Sep 2014 #68

Really? MADem Sep 2014 #80

I'm talking about myself, not them. pnwmom Sep 2014 #83

That is not what it sounds like to me tabbycat31 Sep 2014 #87

I can only respond by asking you to remember this exchange as you approach your MADem Sep 2014 #92

Message auto-removed Name removed Sep 2014 #142

Welcome to DU, Marc72. pnwmom Sep 2014 #145

Message auto-removed Name removed Sep 2014 #146

I am about the age of the man in the OP and I feel the same way. pnwmom Sep 2014 #144

Unless you have a family history that puts you, personally, at that specific risk for Altzheimer's, MADem Sep 2014 #180

I also linked to the statistics I found. But, yes, I do have a parent with it, so my head isn't pnwmom Sep 2014 #181

I'm perfectly fine with not approaching my 70s tabbycat31 Sep 2014 #163

I'll bet you'll change your mind when you hit your mid-sixties. MADem Sep 2014 #188

I think it's realism, too, pnwmom. nt WhiteAndNerdy Sep 2014 #116

'I just think this is an opening salvo for an argument to ration health care.' sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #72

This isn't about Rahm, though. That is a bit of a cheap shot. MADem Sep 2014 #88

He and his brother worked together on HC. sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #99

His name is not on that article. It's just not appropriate to put that on him. MADem Sep 2014 #106

This is so much more complicated than people want to think. pnwmom Sep 2014 #147

I certainly don't want my death to be tied to some arbitrary age. That is what he is espousing - djean111 Sep 2014 #154

If you read the whole article, you would know he's not talking about anyone committing suicide. pnwmom Sep 2014 #164

I admit I read the article with the bias of having read some of his papers - like how spending a djean111 Sep 2014 #182

Well, I certainly don't agree with any libertarian nonsense, and I'm for single payer. pnwmom Sep 2014 #183

Thanks for understanding! My reaction is based on all the things I have read about him. djean111 Sep 2014 #185

I just got finished taking care of two elderly family members a year ago. I am proud to say sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #174

He's only one year older than me, and sounds like 30 years older.... steve2470 Sep 2014 #167

As long as I'm phytsically and mentally healthy I plan to live until I'm at least 100. I remember Louisiana1976 Sep 2014 #10

Damn right!!! Do not go gently!!! Hang on and HAVE FUN!!!! nt MADem Sep 2014 #23

I'll take what I can get Glassunion Sep 2014 #14

My parents are 81 and 76,they walk a mile every day,stay busy, sufrommich Sep 2014 #17

I think there needs to legislation in the US for Euthanasia oooooob Sep 2014 #18

I completely support people's right to end their lives when they wish to. Albeit with counseling etc nomorenomore08 Sep 2014 #24

He isn't arguing that point at all, though.... MADem Sep 2014 #46

Too much money for his Private HC buddies is what he's really worried about. I hope he manages sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #53

i saw a documentary about it. the doctor could not help. DesertFlower Sep 2014 #122

I have no problem with this.. sendero Sep 2014 #21

Provocative, but I'd have said 80 BeyondGeography Sep 2014 #25

The number is arbitrary, but I agree in principle RedCappedBandit Sep 2014 #26

I'm Calling Him on "Longevity for the 1%" daredtowork Sep 2014 #27

Yes! "The Unit" is an incredible book, SheilaT Sep 2014 #43

Just looking at the questions in the post above yours, which may not be representative of sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #49

This is exactly why you should read The Unit daredtowork Sep 2014 #93

Perhaps because it wasn't written by an American? daredtowork Sep 2014 #91

I have no idea why people haven't heard of it SheilaT Sep 2014 #104

Now I can't remember how I found it daredtowork Sep 2014 #110

BINGO. "The Rich Are Different" and they can live as long as they'd like, because they can MADem Sep 2014 #63

Oops - those aren't my points daredtowork Sep 2014 #94

I understand that. I was responding in that same voice. nt MADem Sep 2014 #95

Whew! daredtowork Sep 2014 #97

You're doing great--that UNIT is a huge contribution to this discussion and thank you for it. nt MADem Sep 2014 #108

I hope people actually make time to read it daredtowork Sep 2014 #111

You can get it to read on your kindle/nook or computer/tablet (w/an app) for three fifty MADem Sep 2014 #112

Maybe if there's a wave of interest the ebook will go on sale, too daredtowork Sep 2014 #158

You can get the ebook at that Amazon link, cheap, too. It's the "kindle" version but you don't NEED MADem Sep 2014 #190

Most of the low end reviews daredtowork Sep 2014 #197

you'd think that'd be easy to arrange, but the main mafias are Italian and Irish MisterP Sep 2014 #29

my father is 77 and still healthy and having fun in life. plays golf 3, 4 x's a week. seabeyond Sep 2014 #31

This 103 year-old Doc would disagree n2doc Sep 2014 #36

Thanks for the link A Little Weird Sep 2014 #56

Yay for Dr. Engleman! Duppers Sep 2014 #73

TAKER!!!!! MADem Sep 2014 #96

Well, more power to him. One less member of that family to plague the rest of us. scarletwoman Sep 2014 #37

Amazing isn't it, how that family's total lack of morals and principles is still being foisted on sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #48

"I don't take guidance from people with no souls." Excellent! scarletwoman Sep 2014 #57

It is totally amazing. And, Sabrina1, we did have one small coup today - truedelphi Sep 2014 #102

+1 TexasMommaWithAHat Sep 2014 #162

I'll be 75 in February and I'm not anywhere ready to check out. eom Cleita Sep 2014 #39

I'm almost 49 yo and I'd be ok if I'm gone by 50. mucifer Sep 2014 #40

This message was self-deleted by its author WhiteAndNerdy Sep 2014 #114

Good for him jamzrockz Sep 2014 #42

Someone who is only 57 SheilaT Sep 2014 #45

I can't think of too many people whose opinions are more suspect than Rahm's brother's. sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #47

Nailed it. nt TBF Sep 2014 #54

My mother is 88, and currently traveling cwydro Sep 2014 #51

So much more to learn and see. ErikJ Sep 2014 #55

I disagree completely to die at 75 golfguru Sep 2014 #59

Personally, I am not afraid of dying - I am afraid of living.... kentuck Sep 2014 #64

I don't like him. I think he would deprive the very elderly of cutting edge medicine. madfloridian Sep 2014 #66

Indeed bluestateguy Sep 2014 #86

Should I not trust myself? JonLP24 Sep 2014 #194

I am 75 years old and plan to live at least another 10 years. RebelOne Sep 2014 #69

talkin bout my ge-ge-generation unblock Sep 2014 #74

44% of people between 75 and 84 have Alzheimers. So I think he makes a reasonable point. pnwmom Sep 2014 #75

You are misreading this statistic Yupster Sep 2014 #213

As long as that his his decision, and not the decision of the government or an insurance co. bluestateguy Sep 2014 #77

Not me. Blue_In_AK Sep 2014 #78

why would it not depend on one's health at the time treestar Sep 2014 #79

I'm shootin' for 109. Throd Sep 2014 #89

I hate that nonsense - life expectancy was 47 in 1900 hfojvt Sep 2014 #90

This is sort of weird to say, but Arugula Latte Sep 2014 #98

LOL!!! A healthy 74 year old Zeke'll be saying "But but but but but..." n/t cherokeeprogressive Sep 2014 #100

I had my 75th birthday exactly one week ago....I'm not ready!! young_at_heart Sep 2014 #101

+1,000 !!!! Don't let anyone tell you otherwise...! nt MADem Sep 2014 #107

Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now pinboy3niner Sep 2014 #127

Personally, I'd like the option of euthanasia. Live life until it's just too hard. Hoyt Sep 2014 #109

We do sort of have that. Cleita Sep 2014 #117

There is something to be said for quality over quantity but, I am not sure one can put an age limit Tuesday Afternoon Sep 2014 #113

Quality over quantity? Cleita Sep 2014 #115

what part of personal decision do you NOT understand? This is really none of my business. Done here. Tuesday Afternoon Sep 2014 #118

Done? I guess you can't answer the question. eom Cleita Sep 2014 #119

Actual Life expectancy was not 47 in 1900. former9thward Sep 2014 #123

Excellent piece of information. Divernan Sep 2014 #129

Yep. My family tree has loads of children who died before age 21. MadrasT Sep 2014 #131

BINGO! Infant mortality is the only reason, we are not living longer! B Calm Sep 2014 #132

Fuck you. Our society could do without assholes like you now. Bioethicist, my ass. valerief Sep 2014 #124

I concur. truebluegreen Sep 2014 #126

Big Insurance would heartily agree with this "ethicist" physician! Divernan Sep 2014 #128

If the USA would allow stem cell treatments like some people I know who get them in other countries, Sunlei Sep 2014 #135

"Half A Life" Takket Sep 2014 #136

Oh, yes, Delphinus Sep 2014 #184

Zeke is the Architect of Obamacare Octafish Sep 2014 #137

No he isn't--Mitt Romney and the Massachusetts Legislature are the architects of Obamacare. MADem Sep 2014 #191

Zeke was an advisor. The ACA was not just moved from Massachusetts. djean111 Sep 2014 #203

It wasn't "just moved" but many essential elements, the building blocks, the "architecture" MADem Sep 2014 #205

Looks to me like he has always just been about seeing people as units - and quality of life is not djean111 Sep 2014 #206

Yes--as I said, he's looking to ration health care. MADem Sep 2014 #208

Wouldn't it be great if he used his intellect and influence - he was an advisor for Obama on the djean111 Sep 2014 #209

He'd have to start thinking in terms of humanity and compassion. MADem Sep 2014 #211

We wouldn't have to argue about this if we had a civilized approach to elder care, including means Brickbat Sep 2014 #141

If you look around at his other papers, etc., the 75 year old death thing is not about quality of djean111 Sep 2014 #151

I plan on living till I no longer enjoy seeing beuatiful women. dilby Sep 2014 #152

I plan to deny treatment too PasadenaTrudy Sep 2014 #153

Right now it's your body, your choice (as it should be) - TBF Sep 2014 #156

Right now it's coded as: "if you're debilitated you may be a cash cow to some nursing home pnwmom Sep 2014 #171

That's not a very good argument TBF Sep 2014 #172

It's not an argument for euthanasia. It's an argument for letting people control their own lives pnwmom Sep 2014 #173

As long as it stays personal choice TBF Sep 2014 #175

Check back with him on his 74th birthday KamaAina Sep 2014 #155

OK, Zeke, rogerashton Sep 2014 #159

Let's see if still says that at 74 and a half. nt TeamPooka Sep 2014 #165

My personal goal is 95 steve2470 Sep 2014 #166

I agree with you! nt MADem Sep 2014 #193

I feel sorry for this guy's daughters steve2470 Sep 2014 #195

I told the 75 year old and the 80 year old I played gold with today about this CBGLuthier Sep 2014 #170

To be clear - Zeke is only concerned about contributions to society, not whether your friends are djean111 Sep 2014 #204

OK, they pay taxes and go to church and enjoy their families. Is that ok with Zeke? CBGLuthier Sep 2014 #207

Zeke is already worse than useless so why wait for 75. Evil motherfucker. TheKentuckian Sep 2014 #176

A quote from HL Mencken might be appropriate? kentuck Sep 2014 #177

If the Dr. wishes to "konk out" at 75, it' his right. ladjf Sep 2014 #210

He needs to find out about Arthur Rubinstein. Manifestor_of_Light Sep 2014 #212