General Discussion

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)

139. It's EQUALLY fantasy to think the Titanic could somehow have limped into New York Harbor

Wed Oct 1, 2014, 12:50 PM

Oct 2014

with the guy who didn't miss the iceberg still on the wheel.

There is no way that Kerry's deference to the Clintons could ever have led to a victory. And if he won by deferring to them in all the ways you think he had to, wouldn't that have made it impossible for him to go after the ghost of BCCI at all? And wouldn't it also have made it impossible for him to get out of Iraq at all? And if Kerry could neither go after BCCI OR get us out of Iraq, wouldn't that have made his presidency doomed to humiliating failure from the start? It's not like anything mattered more than those two issues.

What you've posted above was a case for Kerry deciding NOT to run in 2004...not a justification for how that campaign was managed.

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Michael Moore was the person most hated by the Bush WH, [View all] G_j Sep 2014 OP

And one of the most hated by some DUers MannyGoldstein Sep 2014 #1

Well, we do know that the 'Security Contractors' were bidding on contracts to 'smear sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #11

Uh... um... GREENWALD IS A LIBERTARIAN!!! MannyGoldstein Sep 2014 #27

Lol, see what I mean about the smear mongers lack of imagination regarding their talking points sabrina 1 Oct 2014 #104

+1 GREAT post. merrily Oct 2014 #87

It's been mind-blowing to watch them go after Moore, fox news style whatchamacallit Sep 2014 #29

What an amazing honor lame54 Sep 2014 #2

Just watch Fahrenheit 911 and you'll know why. Cleita Sep 2014 #3

In "Fahrenheit" I though the scene with "W" was interesting. Seemed more like a slick talking brewens Oct 2014 #83

oh definitely, want to see some more pre-dumbya speak? reddread Oct 2014 #112

THANKS! Very interesting look at preDimson Bush. nt valerief Oct 2014 #145

I find their comments illuminating reddread Oct 2014 #147

Just another reason to like Michael Moore!! Laf.La.Dem. Sep 2014 #4

Others should be slightly jealous uponit7771 Sep 2014 #5

I'm sure he welcomed their hatred�. dhill926 Sep 2014 #6

He exposed Chimpoleon for exactly what he was hifiguy Sep 2014 #7

and how many votes did Farenheit 9/11 shift? brooklynite Sep 2014 #9

That's because OUR ticket in 2004 SUPPORTED everything Moore's film called out. Ken Burch Sep 2014 #15

You should crucify Kerry a few more times, every chance you get. Major Hogwash Sep 2014 #17

It's not crucifixion to tell the truth. Ken Burch Sep 2014 #18

Evidently you didn't even hear about Ohio's 2004 presidential election results. Major Hogwash Sep 2014 #34

I know about Ohio as much as you do. Don't patronize me. Ken Burch Sep 2014 #40

I highly doubt that. Major Hogwash Sep 2014 #41

OK, I don't know as much about it as your relatives. Ken Burch Sep 2014 #43

There was no Dem strategy against fixed elections. Gore had 51m and Kerry 59m blm Oct 2014 #119

"But Ohio isn't really the point." Major Hogwash Oct 2014 #150

I wasn't "crucifying" Kerry. Ken Burch Oct 2014 #151

LOL! I have relatives in many places. Never dreamt that made me merrily Oct 2014 #92

YOU run a campaign against Bushes and Clintonites and see how you do, Burch. blm Oct 2014 #115

It's not hate, it's disappointment. Ken Burch Oct 2014 #121

LOL - rebuild national party infrastructure AND run a presidential campaign at same time. blm Oct 2014 #125

He could have dismissed McAuliffe. Ken Burch Oct 2014 #128

LOL - It's Fantasy Island to believe a Titanic could easily turn around blm Oct 2014 #133

It's EQUALLY fantasy to think the Titanic could somehow have limped into New York Harbor Ken Burch Oct 2014 #139

Why insist BCCI couldn't be re-opened and Iraq war be drawn down simultaneously? blm Oct 2014 #144

LOL - Tell that to the hawkish Clinton wing of the party you claim didn't exist in 2004. blm Oct 2014 #111

Baloney - You sound like you bought the lazy-minded corporate media's version of 2004. blm Sep 2014 #20

If we were going to keep the Iraq War going, BCCI was meaningless. Ken Burch Sep 2014 #23

Baloney - BCCI is the skeleton key to just about everything that is still going on today. blm Sep 2014 #33

What's a few more pre-conviction pardons, a little MSM play along, a couple of airplane crashes reddread Sep 2014 #39

You are proving to be unable to accept the facts in my post. blm Oct 2014 #105

impeachment? reddread Oct 2014 #110

You think Bush1 gave up presidency to Clinton unwillingly? LOL - blm Oct 2014 #113

not at all reddread Oct 2014 #114

Perhaps you should read the entire exchange - I posted in order of replies blm Oct 2014 #116

yeah, watching Henry Gonzales on C-SPAN all that time reddread Oct 2014 #118

Henry Gonzales was on top of Iraqgate and IranContra links to Iraqgate blm Oct 2014 #122

So what if we left before "the first Iraqi election"? Ken Burch Sep 2014 #42

That's the problem arguing with you - you didn't pay attention then. blm Oct 2014 #55

90 days per Kucinich reddread Oct 2014 #57

As president Dennis Kucinich could NOT fulfill 90 days promise logistically, blm Oct 2014 #103

adamant assertions are still assertions, ANYTHING is possible, except perhaps Kerry saving us reddread Oct 2014 #107

In Nov 2003 there was no election in Iraq scheduled. blm Oct 2014 #109

Again, why are you still so invested in the "Iraqi election"? Ken Burch Oct 2014 #126

And that could have been easily conveyed to the American public blm Oct 2014 #130

ON the stump and in the debates, yes. Ken Burch Oct 2014 #132

Sorry - but you're still wrong. Corpmedia was still pushing blm Oct 2014 #135

Then he should have told Clinton to pound sand. Ken Burch Oct 2014 #138

Sorry, Ken, but your posts are absurd at this point. blm Oct 2014 #148

The "Iraqi election" was a meaningless joke. Ken Burch Oct 2014 #124

Prove it with the poll numbers of the American people at the time. blm Oct 2014 #136

Why do you still pretend that the Iraqi "election" meant anything? Ken Burch Oct 2014 #120

Keep telling yourself that. UN was involved at that point. blm Oct 2014 #146

Moore's film relied on Kerry's investigation of IranContra and BCCI - you think blm Oct 2014 #108

Is that all that matters to you, politics? What all this information has done and continues to do sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #16

& we now have a record for future generations, G_j Sep 2014 #22

The silence included Congressman Bernie Sanders, right? brooklynite Sep 2014 #36

Bernie was in the House at the time what was needed was 1 Senator to go along with the challenge dflprincess Sep 2014 #38

I've read somewhere that not-challenging was negotiated with the GOP, and Dems got more seats Ken Burch Oct 2014 #131

That's interesting dflprincess Oct 2014 #152

Still getting it wrong, eh? RandiFan1290 Oct 2014 #52

Please explain... brooklynite Oct 2014 #53

Moore set an example for all kinds of things. merrily Oct 2014 #90

Um, the OP is about whether Michael Moore was hated by the Bush Administration... brooklynite Sep 2014 #35

on no legs. reddread Sep 2014 #45

In other words, he's "stumped". Ken Burch Oct 2014 #141

After this, therefore because of this... LanternWaste Oct 2014 #99

It did help to rally dispirited Liberals MannyGoldstein Sep 2014 #30

As if you know what the impact of that film was or wasn't. merrily Oct 2014 #89

Boosh should be on our enemies list. Enthusiast Oct 2014 #48

And Phil Donohue would know this, because... brooklynite Sep 2014 #8

Oh? Watch the Colbert stand-up at the WH Correspondents Dinner. hatrack Sep 2014 #13

Yes. rustbeltvoice Sep 2014 #24

How can anybody on the liberal side be anti-Michael Moore? Ken Burch Sep 2014 #19

I'm not "anti", I just don't seem him as politically effective or a danger to the Bush Administratio brooklynite Sep 2014 #37

Really? Well, you are not Bush/Cheney. And you must not have been around sabrina 1 Oct 2014 #46

Funny..I just went down to my local theater to watch it... brooklynite Oct 2014 #54

hope you enjoyed my eyeroll reddread Oct 2014 #59

Lucky you. We were told there were threats against the local theater so it might be wise sabrina 1 Oct 2014 #106

The Bushies have been out of office since 2008. Ken Burch Oct 2014 #142

I don't care... brooklynite Oct 2014 #143

I have to agree JustAnotherGen Oct 2014 #50

because you failed to stop it. reddread Oct 2014 #60

Are you serious? JustAnotherGen Oct 2014 #66

you can blame Moore, I can blame you reddread Oct 2014 #67

When did I blame Moore? JustAnotherGen Oct 2014 #71

"If he was so effective - then why did we have 8 years of the Appointed One instead of four?" reddread Oct 2014 #72

Again you are being a silly sophomore JustAnotherGen Oct 2014 #76

and they didnt hate him. noooo reddread Oct 2014 #81

If Audie Murphy was such a big war hero, Jackpine Radical Oct 2014 #102

Because our party ran an incompetent, deferential, defeatist campaign in 2004 Ken Burch Oct 2014 #134

resistance is futile. accountability is "off the table" reddread Oct 2014 #137

The poster I'm arguing with in this exchange Ken Burch Oct 2014 #140

That is not close to a fair standard for a film, JG, esp. when we let Kerry off the hook. merrily Oct 2014 #95

Apparently, you should have assured the Bush White House about that. merrily Oct 2014 #94

theres the rub reddread Oct 2014 #58

Dan Rather was the most hated by Bush the elder. grasswire Sep 2014 #10

They sure showed him he had something to fear. merrily Oct 2014 #91

yes, much later grasswire Oct 2014 #117

Payback for his story on Dubya's desertion from the Texas Air whatever. merrily Oct 2014 #123

much, much earlier, Rather went after Bush senior. grasswire Oct 2014 #127

Lee Atwater was one POS. Everyone who thinks Poppy is so merrily Oct 2014 #129

Michael Moore is very fat and he lives in a big house!!11!! QC Sep 2014 #12

Get with the program- He's a known Racist n2doc Sep 2014 #21

Oh yeah! I guess Moore's evil was so devastating QC Oct 2014 #63

Not only a known racist Puglover Oct 2014 #75

He's fat, too. That makes him even worse! n/t QC Oct 2014 #78

That's so last week. Today, it's that Bush got re-elected, so Moore is merrily Oct 2014 #96

Makes sense. Ken Burch Sep 2014 #14

Yes, only after Paul Wellstone died. Octafish Sep 2014 #25

they put Jesse Jackson away on Day One reddread Sep 2014 #32

Eh I think that was actually JustAnotherGen Sep 2014 #26

why, do you think they felt threatened by Hussein? reddread Sep 2014 #44

They didn't JustAnotherGen Oct 2014 #49

why would they hate him? reddread Oct 2014 #56

Listen JustAnotherGen Oct 2014 #64

You best take issue with Phil Donahue, not the OP reddread Oct 2014 #68

Nope I take issue with the OP for posting it. JustAnotherGen Oct 2014 #74

thats not logical reddread Oct 2014 #77

Ahh - there it is . . . JustAnotherGen Oct 2014 #84

one for Phil and Mike, tied to the tracks when a bus couldnt be found reddread Oct 2014 #88

I'm confused G_j Oct 2014 #79

Your buddy is the one JustAnotherGen Oct 2014 #82

you keep mentioning the OP G_j Oct 2014 #85

Post removed Post removed Oct 2014 #86

hey now reddread Oct 2014 #93

lol G_j Oct 2014 #97

historical basis? reddread Oct 2014 #98

As well as DU's Party Faithful. n/t Le Taz Hot Sep 2014 #28

Some folks here hate him as well malaise Sep 2014 #31

a long list of hated staunch Bush opponents in these parts reddread Oct 2014 #62

Partisans are partisans every where on the planet malaise Oct 2014 #65

hilarious from another planet maybe reddread Oct 2014 #69

In a cynical way it is funny watching them malaise Oct 2014 #70

My Hero libodem Oct 2014 #47

The trolls swarmed DU when F911 came out. RandiFan1290 Oct 2014 #51

yeah, bring up JFK and you get the same routines reddread Oct 2014 #73

I remember that JustAnotherGen Oct 2014 #80

He is much hated by the local Loyalty Brigade, too. QC Oct 2014 #61

AND WE WELCOME THEIR HATRED: grahamhgreen Oct 2014 #100

I guess that Secretary Donohue would know better than anyone. n/t Orsino Oct 2014 #101

Michael Moore was the first one to courageously take on the samsingh Oct 2014 #149