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Octafish

(55,745 posts)
28. True, ''advisors,'' whom he ordered home.
Thu Oct 2, 2014, 05:00 PM
Oct 2014

JFK wanted to withdraw all U.S. forces from Vietnam and approved National Security Action Memorandum (NSAM) 263. A few days after JFK was dead, LBJ ordered the opposite -- to extend military aid to South Vietnam in NSAM 273.

In the year before JFK's assassination, the Pentagon and CIA gave LBJ, as veep, a more accurate picture of what was happening in Vietnam than they provided JFK, as president. John M. Newman, in "JFK and Vietnam,"documented all that, work originally sourced by Canadian diplomat and educator Peter Dale Scott in the later 1970s.

Why did JFK want to withdraw from Vietnam? JFK said he would not get into a land war in Southeast Asia and he certainly was not going to place US draftees in the middle of Vietnam's civil war. Note: Johnson did and he went along with the CIA/NSA lie that North Vietnam intentionally attacked US destroyers in the Gulf of Tonkin.



Vietnam Withdrawal Plans

The 1990s saw the gaps in the declassified record on Vietnam filled in—with spring 1963 plans for the complete withdrawal of U.S. forces. An initial 1000 man pullout (of the approximately 17,000 stationed in Vietnam at that time) was initiated in October 1963, though it was diluted and rendered meaningless in the aftermath of Kennedy's death. The longer-range plans called for complete withdrawal of U. S. forces and a "Vietnamization" of the war, scheduled to happen largely after the 1964 elections.

The debate over whether withdrawal plans were underway in 1963 is now settled. What remains contentious is the "what if" scenario. What would Kennedy have done if he lived, given the worsening situation in Vietnam after the coup which resulted in the assassination of Vietnamese President Diem?

At the core of the debate is this question: Did President Kennedy really believe the rosy picture of the war effort being conveyed by his military advisors. Or was he onto the game, and instead couching his withdrawal plans in the language of optimism being fed to the White House?

The landmark book JFK and Vietnam asserted the latter, that Kennedy knew he was being deceived and played a deception game of his own, using the military's own rosy analysis as a justification for withdrawal. Newman's analysis, with its dark implications regarding JFK's murder, has been attacked from both mainstream sources and even those on the left. No less than Noam Chomsky devoted an entire book to disputing the thesis.

But declassifications since Newman's 1992 book have only served to buttress the thesis that the Vietnam withdrawal, kept under wraps to avoid a pre-election attack from the right, was Kennedy's plan regardless of the war's success. New releases have also brought into focus the chilling visions of the militarists of that era—four Presidents were advised to use nuclear weapons in Indochina. A recent book by David Kaiser, American Tragedy, shows a military hell bent on war in Asia.

CONTINUED with very important IMFO links:

http://www.history-matters.com/vietnam1963.htm



New Deal economist and Ambassador to India John Kenneth Galbraith worked to bring a back-door peace to Vietnam with Indian PM Jawaharlal Nehru:



Galbraith and Vietnam

by RICHARD PARKER
The Nation, March 14, 2005 issue

In the fall of 1961, unknown to the American public, John F. Kennedy was weighing a crucial decision about Vietnam not unlike that which George W. Bush faced about Iraq in early 2002--whether to go to war. It was the height of the cold war, when Communism was the "terrorist threat," and Ho Chi Minh the era's Saddam Hussein to many in Washington. But the new President was a liberal Massachusetts Democrat (and a decorated war veteran), not a conservative Sunbelt Republican who claimed God's hand guided his foreign policy. JFK's tough-minded instincts about war were thus very different. Contrary to what many have come to believe about the Vietnam War's origins, new research shows that Kennedy wanted no war in Asia and had clear criteria for conditions under which he'd send Americans abroad to fight and die for their country--criteria quite relevant today.

But thanks also in part to recently declassified records, we now know that Kennedy's top aides--whatever his own views--were offering him counsel not all that different from what Bush was told forty years later. Early that November, his personal military adviser, Gen. Maxwell Taylor, and his deputy National Security Adviser, Walt Rostow, were on their way back from Saigon with a draft of the "Taylor report," their bold plan to "save" Vietnam, beginning with the commitment of at least 8,000 US troops--a down payment, they hoped, on thousands more to follow. But they knew JFK had no interest in their idea because six months earlier in a top-secret meeting, he had forcefully vetoed his aides' proposed dispatch of 60,000 troops to neighboring Laos--and they were worried about how to maneuver his assent.

Harvard economist John Kenneth Galbraith, then Ambassador to India, got wind of their plan--and rushed to block their efforts. He was not an expert on Vietnam, but India chaired the International Control Commission, which had been set up following French withdrawal from Indochina to oversee a shaky peace accord meant to stabilize the region, and so from State Department cables he knew about the Taylor mission--and thus had a clear sense of what was at stake. For Galbraith, a trusted adviser with unique back-channel access to the President, a potential US war in Vietnam represented more than a disastrous misadventure in foreign policy--it risked derailing the New Frontier's domestic plans for Keynesian-led full employment, and for massive new spending on education, the environment and what would become the War on Poverty. Worse, he feared, it might ultimately tear not only the Democratic Party but the nation apart--and usher in a new conservative era in American politics.

Early that November, just as Taylor and his team arrived back in Washington, Galbraith arrived from New Delhi for the state visit of Prime Minister Nehru. Hoping to gain a quick upper hand over Taylor and his mission, he arranged a private luncheon for Kennedy and Nehru at the Newport estate of Jacqueline Kennedy's mother and stepfather. No one from the State Department--to Secretary of State Dean Rusk's great consternation--was invited, save Galbraith. Ten days earlier, Galbraith, in one of his back-channel messages, had shared with Kennedy his growing concerns about Vietnam. From India, he'd played a role in defusing the Laos situation that spring, but over the summer, the Berlin crisis had sent a sharp chill through relations with the Soviets, with the risks of nuclear confrontation for a time all too real. About this, Galbraith now told the President:

Although at times I have been rather troubled by Berlin, I have always had the feeling that it would be worked out. I have continued to worry far, far more about South Viet Nam. This is more complex, far less controllable, far more varied in the factors involved, far more susceptible to misunderstanding. And to make matters worse, I have no real confidence in the sophistication and political judgment of our people there.

This was advice Kennedy was hearing from no one else in his Administration, but clearly welcomed.

CONTINUED...

http://www.johnkennethgalbraith.com/index.php?display=10&page=articles



This is an important part of modern US history. I hope more people continue its study.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

k and r -- bookmarking for later too :) nashville_brook Oct 2014 #1
The Chicago Plot Octafish Oct 2014 #17
Racist culture in federal law-enforcement? DirkGently Oct 2014 #2
Meriah Heller interviewed Mr. Bolden... Octafish Oct 2014 #18
*sigh* So much fucked-uppediness. scarletwoman Oct 2014 #3
Yeah but... toddwv Oct 2014 #10
You are most welcome, scarletwoman! Edwin Black helped keep Abraham Bolden's story alive. Octafish Oct 2014 #38
You are simply amazing, Octafish! scarletwoman Oct 2014 #41
Thanks for this. You know that some people are going to call you crazy LawDeeDah Oct 2014 #4
For keeping his integrity, Abraham Bolden was put in a psych ward and force-fed drugs. Octafish Oct 2014 #22
What sucks is that not everyone has the mental toughness of Bolden RufusTFirefly Oct 2014 #40
Pres. Obama should issue a pardon to this man so he won't still have the stigma of being a tblue37 Oct 2014 #5
It may be that things are so twisted he can't. Octafish Oct 2014 #23
They couldn't have Mr Bolden interfering with their plans for Mr Kennedy. n/t 951-Riverside Oct 2014 #6
Universal sign of WTF Octafish Oct 2014 #24
i hope he gets a presidential pardon. I wouldn't be underthematrix Oct 2014 #7
It's my bet that the WH is working on pardons for Bush and Cheney and the hell with this rhett o rick Oct 2014 #25
K&R. Bolden was also a crucial part of this brilliant and beautiful book RufusTFirefly Oct 2014 #8
Recommended! Thank you! LongTomH Oct 2014 #9
''He chose peace. They marked him for death.'' -- James W. Douglass, PhD. and man of peace, himself Octafish Oct 2014 #39
A Coup In Camelot Trailer: Narrated by Peter Coyote Ichingcarpenter Oct 2014 #11
1963 - over 50 years ago TorchTheWitch Oct 2014 #12
but, there's a long way to go...... a kennedy Oct 2014 #13
no denying that TorchTheWitch Oct 2014 #16
I agree, the past can't be changed gratuitous Oct 2014 #30
The past can't be changed... malthaussen Oct 2014 #46
Bolden describes his WH service starting at the 1:16 mark here KurtNYC Oct 2014 #14
Great video..narrated by Martin Sheen Ichingcarpenter Oct 2014 #19
K&R for the original post and subsequent informative posts and links. JEB Oct 2014 #15
Here's an old newspaper clipping from 1964... Octafish Oct 2014 #43
kicking for visibility. nashville_brook Oct 2014 #20
Meeting President Kennedy Octafish Oct 2014 #44
HUGE K & R !!! - THANK YOU !!! WillyT Oct 2014 #21
Excerpt from book review: 'You're the ''Jackie Robinson'' of the Secret Service.' Octafish Oct 2014 #45
And Thank You For All Your Invaluable Information WillyT Oct 2014 #47
Huger K&R rhett o rick Oct 2014 #26
Abraham Bolden heard agents say they wouldn't take a bullet for JFK. Octafish Oct 2014 #49
Actually, Kennedy escalated troop numbers in Vietnam. valerief Oct 2014 #27
True, ''advisors,'' whom he ordered home. Octafish Oct 2014 #28
Wow, thanks for this refresher course! Duppers Oct 2014 #31
Thanks, I'm another who did not know all of this. Scuba Oct 2014 #32
Right, but the troops he wanted to pull, he had put there to begin with. nt valerief Oct 2014 #35
OPLAN-34A Octafish Oct 2014 #37
This message was self-deleted by its author Duppers Oct 2014 #29
Great thread, thanks to all. Kicking. Bookmarking. Scuba Oct 2014 #33
Damn!! Hutzpa Oct 2014 #34
Thanks for this thread malaise Oct 2014 #36
Thank you. n/t Judi Lynn Oct 2014 #42
Every time I read anything about JFK, I think how different history could have been! LongTomH Oct 2014 #48
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