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rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)

61. I appreciate being able to have this discussion because I couldn't disagree with you more.

Sun Oct 5, 2014, 07:08 PM

Oct 2014

"Where do you get the idea that they feel the same about us?" What I said is we don't agree with how they treat females there. I am sure they don't agree with how we treat females here. Of course we think our values are right and their's are wrong, but since there really is no universal set of values, we must walk softly in trying to convince others that our values trump theirs. Heavy-handed attempts not only always fail, often they make things worse. The West has been meddling in the Middle East for decades and it's clear to me that we've made things much worse.

This is an excellent article and thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025623375

However much we might wish it were so, there are effectively no universally agreed essential values, and we have had little success, anywhere in the world, forcing people to trade their values for ours. Despite our collective spending of trillions of dollars fighting the Taliban in Afghanistan to win over hearts and minds, many – perhaps most – Afghans do not want to see girls in school; have little interest in what we call democracy; believe our harping about corruption is extravagantly hypocritical; and would rather grow poppies than carrots.

You said:

"The way to 'tame' Muslim culture is to have them accept the concept of love and romance."

Wow, if that statement doesn't scream "American Exceptionalism, I don't know what does. The other word that screams out is assimilation. Force them all to go to our schools and learn our values. Didn't work so well with the Native Americans.

Before we go looking to force other peoples to have our values, we need to look at our values. I think we, the wealthiest country in the world rank 54th in infant mortality. What kind of values allows that? But we rank #1 for the number of Muslims we kill. It's more important to us and our values to spend our wealth on killing Muslims than saving children's lives.

And again you say:

"but a merging of cultures must occur at some point. "

Really? If we wanted to do that, and I am totally against it, we are going about it all wrong.

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A special Venn diagram to pass on to any Islamophobes you may know... [View all] Turborama Oct 2014 OP

That is one scary looking Venn, with all the Muslims, you trying to fear monger some more? Fred Sanders Oct 2014 #1

Now show the Venn diagram of those who promote equal rights. randome Oct 2014 #2

The same old tune, "they need to be stopped." But what does "stopped" mean? It's like "Whack-A- rhett o rick Oct 2014 #19

Bringing up Southeast Asia pointed to an obvious number 5 and sadly the most likely answer for many. A Simple Game Oct 2014 #29

Yes, it's Whack-A-Mole. The Muslim world is undergoing its own Reformation Period. randome Oct 2014 #35

Fear mongering, that's a statement or proclamation . orpupilofnature57 Oct 2014 #42

KKK and other American Christian extrmists also oppose "equal rights." hunter Oct 2014 #20

America exports oil at record levels so I think seeing everything in terms of oil is simplistic. randome Oct 2014 #39

It has nothing to do with the levels of oil production in the U.S.A. hunter Oct 2014 #50

+ 1000 orpupilofnature57 Oct 2014 #43

well shit, of course Islamophobia is a horrid expression of hate cali Oct 2014 #3

MSM say's they're winning, it's not sympathizing with jihads, Do we support killing children ? orpupilofnature57 Oct 2014 #6

huh? your post hardly makes sense cali Oct 2014 #9

Ah, but does the alienation depend solely on non-Muslims? randome Oct 2014 #10

Your second question and its answer are utter BS. Turborama Oct 2014 #12

It's an eternal conflict, isn't it? randome Oct 2014 #13

There is nothing wrong with supporting freedom of thought and expression, but we have no rhett o rick Oct 2014 #28

Where do you get the idea that they feel the same about us? randome Oct 2014 #30

''The Muslim culture has no concept of romance or love.''? Seriously, you should stop. Turborama Oct 2014 #47

Prove me wrong. randome Oct 2014 #53

The "vast majority of Muslims" refuse to allow what, exactly? Turborama Oct 2014 #62

Arranged marriages. Giving children to husbands. Tell me this isn't a widespread practice. randome Oct 2014 #68

No, *giving children to husbands is not a widespread practice. Turborama Oct 2014 #78

I appreciate being able to have this discussion because I couldn't disagree with you more. rhett o rick Oct 2014 #61

I think we need to have zero relations with get the red out Oct 2014 #65

I am all for protecting the innocent around the world. But that's not at all what we do. rhett o rick Oct 2014 #69

Why bomb anyone? get the red out Oct 2014 #75

What in the world are you talking about? pangaia Oct 2014 #18

All the 'magic clothing' religions are equally ridiculous, IMO. randome Oct 2014 #32

Indonesia, Turkey. cali Oct 2014 #48

I am curious which religion you belong to. One that doesn't put women at a lower level than men. rhett o rick Oct 2014 #71

I've often said the only thing I will ever call myself is a human being. Nothing more, nothing less. randome Oct 2014 #79

I like the sentiment, but don't you belong to the American "club" and the "Democratic" club? nm rhett o rick Oct 2014 #80

I LOVE YOUR POST!!! get the red out Oct 2014 #76

Sorry for Whatever but, I never trivialized anything as in " So What " , orpupilofnature57 Oct 2014 #16

Again, I fail to see what Fonda has to do with this cali Oct 2014 #22

Not to try to speak for cali but " it sounds like you ostracize a ton of views ." rhett o rick Oct 2014 #24

The Views attached to the diagram were the " Views " I meant or orpupilofnature57 Oct 2014 #38

Your argument makes no sense. Maybe if you'd use statements of how you feel rhett o rick Oct 2014 #23

Thanks orpupilofnature57 Oct 2014 #31

Some very good questions Turborama Oct 2014 #8

Yes. More interconnectedness will, in the long run, be the death-knell of fundamentalism. randome Oct 2014 #11

Goodness. You understand that capitalism and communism (as practiced in Russia and China, rhett o rick Oct 2014 #34

Pretty well said. pangaia Oct 2014 #45

Communism as practiced by the old USSR and its satellite nations clearly lost out. randome Oct 2014 #51

oligarchy indeed justabob Oct 2014 #77

Is it fearmongering get the red out Oct 2014 #4

What's an Islamic country? n/t Turborama Oct 2014 #5

Saudi Arabia, Iran, Brunei MNBrewer Oct 2014 #14

Islamic States EX500rider Oct 2014 #33

I'm not sure that's how the term is usually used. Donald Ian Rankin Oct 2014 #41

Nearly. The normal term is ''Muslim majority country''. Turborama Oct 2014 #46

Majority Islamic religion get the red out Oct 2014 #63

Well, there aren't "many" of them (Muslim majority countries where there is no religious freedom). Turborama Oct 2014 #73

Some informative reading get the red out Oct 2014 #74

Feminism and Liberalism are synonymous . Unless you mean " good Liberal " like orpupilofnature57 Oct 2014 #7

No, they're not even close to being synonyms. Donald Ian Rankin Oct 2014 #36

I got it and the reading attached, Your diagram showed how we make the exception the rule . orpupilofnature57 Oct 2014 #54

Thank you get the red out Oct 2014 #64

There are many female Muslims who fight for equal rights but still continue to be Muslim. liberal_at_heart Oct 2014 #60

So? get the red out Oct 2014 #66

one of the most dangerous places on earth for women is India, yet we still whereisjustice Oct 2014 #15

+1000 !!!! orpupilofnature57 Oct 2014 #17

That's a slight exaggeration. Donald Ian Rankin Oct 2014 #40

You are wrong. And your response is EXACTLY the problem with Democratic elite whereisjustice Oct 2014 #44

It is a two front attack. One method does not preclude the other. Fighting ISIS rhett o rick Oct 2014 #56

Good pt, Lockheed Martin get's to hire s/w eng and IT from the slums of India to help whereisjustice Oct 2014 #57

That's true get the red out Oct 2014 #67

I think you're being rude in not considering the feelings of... TlalocW Oct 2014 #21

It's rude to actual Venn diagrams. eggplant Oct 2014 #26

true mathphobes wouldn't have clicked through the subject line ;) unblock Oct 2014 #27

At least one American Muslim supports ISIS Nye Bevan Oct 2014 #25

So the red dot should be tangential to the blue lozenge? Donald Ian Rankin Oct 2014 #37

If you think the only American Muslim who supports ISIS Nye Bevan Oct 2014 #49

I think there are about 1000-2000 pixels in the blue lozenge. Donald Ian Rankin Oct 2014 #52

The ambiguos things we are told to fear for 13yrs, is scarey . Ike was right orpupilofnature57 Oct 2014 #55

Bust out the crayons and add some more colors to those circles. ZombieHorde Oct 2014 #58

K&R liberal_at_heart Oct 2014 #59

So, we shouldn't worry about R-W militias, either, because....small in toto? WinkyDink Oct 2014 #70

No, that analogy would be: Don't hate all Americans because a few of them belong to RW militias Turborama Oct 2014 #72