General Discussion

baldguy

(36,649 posts)

170. One more time: Dog bites in Toronto have not decreased in any significant way.

Mon Oct 6, 2014, 10:14 PM

Oct 2014

Last edited Tue Oct 7, 2014, 06:23 AM - Edit history (1)

And since that is the advertised objective of BSL, it has failed.

And did you even notice that your chart makes no sense? Just look at 2001: The breed labeled "Pit Bull Terrier" accounted for 34% of dogs, right behind it is "All pit bull breeds" which they list as "includes the four breeds affected by the ban: pit bull terrier, American pit bull terrier, American Staffordshire terrier and Staffordshire bull terrier" for 24%, then below is "Staffordshire Bull terrier" at 16%.

Don't you think "All pit bull breeds" at 24% would include "Pit Bull Terrier" at 34% plus "Staffordshire Bull terrier" at 16% plus whatever percent is made up by "American pit bull terrier" and "American Staffordshire terrier"? Your chart says it does.

Sorry, but 24 ≠ 34 + 16 + whatever. Your numbers just don't add up. That's one indication of bullshit propaganda from Rob Ford's cronies in Animal Services.

Now, when you ask the people who don't have a political axe to grind, like the Toronto Humane Society, you'd find that there were 4000-5000 dog bites per year before BSL, and about 4000-5000 dog bites per year after BSL, at least up to 2009:

https://www.facebook.com/notes/toronto-humane-society/ths-study-finds-breed-specific-legislation-has-not-reduced-dog-bites/384465083730

And if we accept the article you've posted as gospel truth (which I don't), it seems that dog bites actually INCREASED to 9219 in 2013 after the ban has been in place for 8 yrs.

BSLs always fail, because the assumptions they're based on are lies, and as such BSLs bring more harm to people when enacted.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

218 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

The Academic Impostor Behind the Pit Bull Hysteria [View all] baldguy Oct 2014 OP

The pittie haters are like the anti-vaxxers. hobbit709 Oct 2014 #1

pittie makes them 1dogleft Oct 2014 #4

None of the pittie owners I know fit your description. hobbit709 Oct 2014 #5

I have pics of what my neighbor's pit did to me and my dachshund in my own yard. Gore1FL Oct 2014 #14

and you sued your neighbor, right? Your neighbor is totally responsible for all damages. Sunlei Oct 2014 #29

And what do you do when it's an unknown owner and pit bull you encounter pnwmom Oct 2014 #85

carry some 'bear spray' when you walk about. Strays are a huge problem here in houston too. Sunlei Oct 2014 #107

Wouldn't have helped. The dog ran up out of nowhere -- from behind my son -- pnwmom Oct 2014 #114

Your son was lucky & brave! Sunlei Oct 2014 #118

Yes, having the spray would be a good idea, though my son has asthma so he'd have to be very careful pnwmom Oct 2014 #122

no one died 1dogleft Oct 2014 #33

dogs in packs are the danger hollysmom Oct 2014 #140

Thugs, Hells Angels and others will not socialise any dog intaglio Oct 2014 #178

What does one have to do with the other arikara Oct 2014 #39

did you bother to read beyond the post title? Is comparison beyond your comprehension? hobbit709 Oct 2014 #42

i think the connection is on du anti vac gets scorned, ridiculed, shamed, and he was using that to seabeyond Oct 2014 #43

I wish I had your way with words n/t 1dogleft Oct 2014 #54

Dog haters, anti-vaxxers (and anti-abortionisists, too) all rely on unreasoned fear, spurious logic, baldguy Oct 2014 #58

dog haters? most of the people on this thread have dogs. that hardly shows them as dog haters, nt seabeyond Oct 2014 #92

Sort of like Michael Vick. baldguy Oct 2014 #102

no. again. not even sorta like. nt seabeyond Oct 2014 #109

You're claiming the mere possession of a canine precludes someone from being a dog hater? baldguy Oct 2014 #115

no. i am claiming, the mere discussion of, fear of, experience, with pit bulls, does not make a dog seabeyond Oct 2014 #117

Comparing a Pit Bull to a bear or a shark makes your protestations... unconvincing. baldguy Oct 2014 #123

"Comparing a Pit Bull to a bear or a shark makes your protestations... unconvincing." no. animals. seabeyond Oct 2014 #127

Do you even understand the OP? baldguy Oct 2014 #131

bald. i addressed the people in this thread are dog haters. seabeyond Oct 2014 #136

as an aside, all except 2? of the Vick dogs were retrained and adopted by families. Sunlei Oct 2014 #138

Meh, those are "wimpy dog" owners ProudToBeBlueInRhody Oct 2014 #155

having had my behavior affected by confrontation with pits, .... i know, lol. nt seabeyond Oct 2014 #157

I wish I could recall the news source rustydog Oct 2014 #216

It is incredibly ignorant and shallow to hate certain breeds of dogs. Jamastiene Oct 2014 #203

the reality is, many of us have had experiences in our lives that have curtailed our behavior, seabeyond Oct 2014 #207

I used to volunteer at the dog shelter wercal Oct 2014 #98

Was this some sort of special pure bred dogs only type shelter? Jamastiene Oct 2014 #205

Predictable 'you can't id a pit bull' bullshit response wercal Oct 2014 #217

Predictable "I didn't run their dna" idiotic reply. NealK Oct 2014 #218

He truly is the worst sort of slimebag - hides behind animal welfare to kill them. Not to jtuck004 Oct 2014 #2

All I want is for fucking people to keep their fucking animals on a leash, whatever breed. NYC_SKP Oct 2014 #3

You and me both! ColesCountyDem Oct 2014 #7

In my town it IS illegal to have your dog off leash. roody Oct 2014 #46

It is here, too, but strangely enough... ColesCountyDem Oct 2014 #48

There is a direct connection. Jamastiene Oct 2014 #206

I don't know about your dog, but the little terrier that lives across the street from me is a terror notadmblnd Oct 2014 #17

Hopefully, at least it's contained on the property and not out on the street. NYC_SKP Oct 2014 #19

For the most part she is fenced in notadmblnd Oct 2014 #24

I always say about my little pet terriers, "Thank god they're little!" Sunlei Oct 2014 #134

You know they are cousins of those evil Pits? If they were bigger notadmblnd Oct 2014 #161

Exactly etherealtruth Oct 2014 #22

I know what you mean! My friend has some cattle- dogs from the area come on his property & chase Sunlei Oct 2014 #34

+1. i had that experience last year. scared that crap out of me. keep dogs on their fuckin leash. nt seabeyond Oct 2014 #37

If you know you will need to pull your dog up off the pavement, why are you STILL using a "chock" Jamastiene Oct 2014 #204

Breed doesn't matter jeffrey_pdx Oct 2014 #6

Rat Terriers Scarsdale Oct 2014 #9

No. Training can mask genetics to a degree but genetics are important. Drahthaardogs Oct 2014 #27

Except no one knows a bad dog's "genetics," right? DirkGently Oct 2014 #100

So much misinformation here. Drahthaardogs Oct 2014 #105

False argument from authority. "Responsible breeders?" DirkGently Oct 2014 #116

Show dogs are a genetic mess. Drahthaardogs Oct 2014 #137

Fun because you ignore facts and logic? DirkGently Oct 2014 #144

that temperment test is not only for aggression Drahthaardogs Oct 2014 #149

So, you have no answers, just credentials? DirkGently Oct 2014 #152

You have a GENETICS PROBLEM because you have irresponsible people. Drahthaardogs Oct 2014 #160

Now I KNOW you are full of shit. Jamastiene Oct 2014 #209

Yeah, I am full of shit. Drahthaardogs Oct 2014 #214

Dirk posted links to actual studies and facts. Jamastiene Oct 2014 #208

Dirk's "facts" and the thing the little bird left on the rock are very similar Drahthaardogs Oct 2014 #215

That's simply an obtuse statement Android3.14 Oct 2014 #31

What I meant is that breed of the dog has less to do than how they're raised jeffrey_pdx Oct 2014 #165

It does when some breeds are deliberately bred for aggression. n/t pnwmom Oct 2014 #86

I've never seen a mean dog that wasn't owned by a jackass. marble falls Oct 2014 #8

I have had two pitt bulls and two Rottweilers RebelOne Oct 2014 #60

I had friends who had a female pitbull who I lived with for a couple of years. CentralMass Oct 2014 #10

You do realize this can be true of any dog? michaz Oct 2014 #20

Actually, you can lump breeds into categories Android3.14 Oct 2014 #32

No dog should be left alone with a baby. roody Oct 2014 #47

Who says the dog and baby were alone? XemaSab Oct 2014 #49

... Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2014 #11

Why are they called PIT BULLS? XemaSab Oct 2014 #45

They weren't always called "Pit Bull".... Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2014 #93

Why is the word "bull" in the name? XemaSab Oct 2014 #95

It's the angle of the body with muscular front and smaller hind legs... Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2014 #96

RIIIIIIGHT XemaSab Oct 2014 #97

They were used as herd dogs... Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2014 #106

from 'bull baiting', humanity has always encouraged 'animal fights' Sunlei Oct 2014 #110

Yes. Many breeds began as fighters of one kind or another. DirkGently Oct 2014 #153

Never heard of him Orrex Oct 2014 #12

"I have" is not the same as "I have written." CaptainTruth Oct 2014 #13

The problem with the bully breeds gaspee Oct 2014 #15

Sorry baldguy, but breed matters Android3.14 Oct 2014 #16

My vet agrees with you. ColesCountyDem Oct 2014 #51

You have described a people problem, not a "breed" problem. DirkGently Oct 2014 #150

"We DO have a problem with stupid people deliberately breeding and keeping vicious dogs." ColesCountyDem Oct 2014 #156

"breed matters." It does not. DirkGently Oct 2014 #158

Got it! ColesCountyDem Oct 2014 #159

Pit Bulls Are Banned in Several Countries dynasaw Oct 2014 #18

Maybe the pit bull ate his publications. pintobean Oct 2014 #21

Statistics can be manipulated. But pits routinely kill people. Drahthaardogs Oct 2014 #23

This is a vicious lie promoted by the like of Merritt Clifton. baldguy Oct 2014 #163

I am pretty sure ABC Local is credible Drahthaardogs Oct 2014 #164

And now I can see you didn't bother to *read* the article in the OP. baldguy Oct 2014 #168

one of those wonderful pitties sent my little buddy to the vet hospital. KG Oct 2014 #25

My friend was mugged by a Chinese guy jberryhill Oct 2014 #28

I normally don't read P/B threads ... 1StrongBlackMan Oct 2014 #26

Today:Pit bulls' owner gets 15 years to life in prison for fatal mauling dynasaw Oct 2014 #30

Good! nt Logical Oct 2014 #35

Those weren't Pits. Pit Bulls don't exist. Hassin Bin Sober Oct 2014 #40

Pit Bulls exist, but I'd be surprised if those were actually technically 4 pit bulls Recursion Oct 2014 #41

yeah yeah. I know. Hassin Bin Sober Oct 2014 #62

That's because it was a Brad Pitt Bull. kwassa Oct 2014 #64

This ASPCA disagrees with you. pnwmom Oct 2014 #87

"404 - Page not found" uppityperson Oct 2014 #88

I added quotes from the article, but I don't know why pnwmom Oct 2014 #89

aha, I copy pasted the whole link, not just the blue part. uppityperson Oct 2014 #91

The U.S. does an awful job collecting data on dog attacks exboyfil Oct 2014 #36

Merritt Clifton, an investigative reporter and former editor of Animal People.has a lot of books. Sunlei Oct 2014 #38

Post removed Post removed Oct 2014 #44

I've never met a pit bull owner who wasn't a wanna-be tough guy XemaSab Oct 2014 #50

Right. All Pit Bull owners are insecure in their masculinity... baldguy Oct 2014 #78

None of those dogs are Pit Bulls. Hassin Bin Sober Oct 2014 #99

Probably. Most of them are rescues, and are probably of the "Heinz 57" variety. baldguy Oct 2014 #101

Just to clarify one point here, so we're all on the same page Orrex Oct 2014 #108

People who say they "run a Pit rescue" are mistaken or making things up. Hassin Bin Sober Oct 2014 #113

except they have studies like this. boomer55 Oct 2014 #52

And replies like this: baldguy Oct 2014 #57

What is your premise? Drahthaardogs Oct 2014 #68

Both. baldguy Oct 2014 #69

Dogs yes. Dogs bred since the Roman times for a purpose. Drahthaardogs Oct 2014 #72

Were Pit Bulls originally bred to fight? Sure. 200 yrs ago. baldguy Oct 2014 #73

Your lack of dog knowledge is a problem. Drahthaardogs Oct 2014 #74

Anyone such as you who blames all Pit Bulls and only Pit Bulls for the relatively few baldguy Oct 2014 #75

You have no breeding regulations Drahthaardogs Oct 2014 #77

You have no requirement the media to tell the truth baldguy Oct 2014 #79

Again what are disqualifying breeding faults for pit bulls Drahthaardogs Oct 2014 #80

It doesn't matter. BSLs ban every Pit Bull - even if it's the most stable dog in the universe. baldguy Oct 2014 #81

We are not talking about BSL here. We are talking about your belief that pits are not genetically Drahthaardogs Oct 2014 #83

Testing puts actual Pits below 121 other breeds in aggression. DirkGently Oct 2014 #119

No. You stated they have "been bred for companion animals for 200 years" so... Drahthaardogs Oct 2014 #135

I'm with you Drath. We accidentally adopted a Carolina Dog elehhhhna Oct 2014 #111

My neighbor had a pit bull. meaculpa2011 Oct 2014 #53

A mastiff mix across the street stalked our CAR. DirkGently Oct 2014 #154

I'd be more sympathetic to the claims that pit bulls SheilaT Oct 2014 #55

I hope this is some kind of stealth sarcasm, because... baldguy Oct 2014 #56

LOL! SheilaT Oct 2014 #94

pit bull ban has worked in Toronto over that past decade DrDan Oct 2014 #59

All that proves is that there are fewer Pit Bulls registered in Toronto. baldguy Oct 2014 #61

read the article DrDan Oct 2014 #63

The Toronto Human Society disagrees. baldguy Oct 2014 #65

the facts DrDan Oct 2014 #67

Get those numbers from Merritt Clifton? baldguy Oct 2014 #70

right from that Toronto Star link I provided to you DrDan Oct 2014 #71

Which, again just proves that there are fewer Pit Bulls registered in Toronto. baldguy Oct 2014 #76

Your problem is not with statistics DrDan Oct 2014 #82

Your utter & complete faith in the charlatan Merritt Clifton has damaged your reasoning ability. baldguy Oct 2014 #121

I used NO info from him - LOOK AT THE ARTICLE I POSTED from the Toronto Star DrDan Oct 2014 #146

Right. BSLs deal with Pit Bulls. They **DON'T** deal with the issue of dog bites. baldguy Oct 2014 #167

pit bites in Toronto down from 168 to 13 (down 92%!!!!!!!) DrDan Oct 2014 #169

One more time: Dog bites in Toronto have not decreased in any significant way. baldguy Oct 2014 #170

Bites down 92% while the pit population goes down only 49% DrDan Oct 2014 #171

Dog bites have not gone down. Dog bites have GONE UP! baldguy Oct 2014 #172

Look at the Toronto data - not the province DrDan Oct 2014 #173

Read your own fucking article! baldguy Oct 2014 #174

Hahaha DrDan Oct 2014 #175

Sez the guy tauting an article that deliberately obfuscates the raw data. baldguy Oct 2014 #176

Pit bites down 92% DrDan Oct 2014 #177

Dog bites up 91%. baldguy Oct 2014 #186

At least I can source my data DrDan Oct 2014 #188

Toronto Humane Society. baldguy Oct 2014 #189

Toronto Star - that article you refuse to acknowledge DrDan Oct 2014 #190

Toronto Star, you say? baldguy Oct 2014 #192

Pit bull bites down 92% while population drops only 49% DrDan Oct 2014 #193

Post removed Post removed Oct 2014 #194

The pit bull ban has reduced pit bull bites DrDan Oct 2014 #195

Seems to me the total number of dog bites isn't that useful a number on it's own. Captain Stern Oct 2014 #213

I always wondered who started the BULLSHIT about pit bulls. Rex Oct 2014 #66

The only dog that's ever ripped into one of mine, leaving us with a $900 vet bill, pnwmom Oct 2014 #84

Ban all breeding of Pit Bulls seveneyes Oct 2014 #90

Ban all breeding please! At least until roody Oct 2014 #112

They will never be empty because they have become the shelters of the world. pnwmom Oct 2014 #124

World Vets is working on it. roody Oct 2014 #166

Most of the nice dogs in shelters are Pit Bulls. baldguy Oct 2014 #162

Pitties are just playful MannyGoldstein Oct 2014 #103

no different than any other breed . . . I read that right here DrDan Oct 2014 #148

Any well-muscled dachshund could do that, too MannyGoldstein Oct 2014 #151

Facts don't seem to make a difference in this debate JonLP24 Oct 2014 #104

Sweet. Will our 7 year old friend grow back his penis and testicles now? joeglow3 Oct 2014 #120

Are the 20 million Pit Bulls in America all collectivly guilty of this? baldguy Oct 2014 #125

Post removed Post removed Oct 2014 #126

30 vs 30,000 baldguy Oct 2014 #128

Pit humpers trying to manipulate stats more joeglow3 Oct 2014 #129

Try four. baldguy Oct 2014 #133

And you think the "kind" of dog was the problem? DirkGently Oct 2014 #130

Pit humpers now claiming spoons are more dangerous than guns joeglow3 Oct 2014 #132

Well, no, the logic is that Pits have better temperaments than DirkGently Oct 2014 #139

because they're a cheap breed, very popular and 'the poor mans gun', a status symbol Sunlei Oct 2014 #141

It's become a generic term, is what it is. DirkGently Oct 2014 #147

sure, a lot of mutts are missIDed (i do DNA on my mutts) but pitts are in top 10 in popular 'pets' Sunlei Oct 2014 #184

Few people, and no poor ones could ever afford a real pitbull. Ligyron Oct 2014 #183

more people mating those 'cheap poor quality pitts?',selling them cheap to bad homes. Sunlei Oct 2014 #185

"Pit Humpers" .... are you intentionally trying to be rude and ignorant by using this term? etherealtruth Oct 2014 #142

Well, one of his three posts was hidden for using that term. Orrex Oct 2014 #143

Ah, very good! Thanks for the info etherealtruth Oct 2014 #145

Hmmmm, Google scholar is your friend rjsquirrel Oct 2014 #179

Err, you did not actually bother to read the article, did you? intaglio Oct 2014 #180

If you had any clue as to how to work the Google machine, baldguy Oct 2014 #187

Dangerous dogs or dangerous owners? intaglio Oct 2014 #181

England grew out of their dog fighting days in the 1800s when they banned some animal fights Sunlei Oct 2014 #198

Oh how very wrong intaglio Oct 2014 #199

sure you have 'gangbangers' who fight animals, but your society goes after animal cruelty- Sunlei Oct 2014 #200

It still does not alter the fact that I have never been attacked by pit bulls intaglio Oct 2014 #212

Chicago dogs like the one in video are usually down from Corvino lines Ligyron Oct 2014 #201

whatever, point is the USA has a HUGE, HUGE dog fighting industry..that is ignored. Sunlei Oct 2014 #202

Most people have no idea what a "Pit bull" is Ligyron Oct 2014 #182

Extra butter on mine, please. KamaAina Oct 2014 #191

Our society needs to be harsher on dog fighters & bad owners, not the 'dog breeds.' Sunlei Oct 2014 #196

About the muzzle in public business IVoteDFL Oct 2014 #210

No, the law requires a full muzzle. I use a gentle leader for training some dogs, works great! Sunlei Oct 2014 #211

I was going to get a Pit Bull but my vet said she wouldn't give him a circumcision snooper2 Oct 2014 #197