General Discussion

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)

133. People say many things, but it is only their actions others can use to define them.

Fri Oct 10, 2014, 05:01 PM

Oct 2014

That is to say, I really don't care to hear the back story or list of excuses for why you do what you do, because there is no way for me to know if that is authentic, or agenda driven. It's their inner life. What matters is what they do.
So if you treat others badly, I think you are a shitty person. If you rush behind the skirts of some faith and say 'my god says to treat others that way' I do not really care. What matters is what you do. Not your note from Mommy excusing you from civilization.
In Uganda, they say it's for Christianity. In many places they say it's for Islam. I do not give a shit what they clam it is for. It is what they, actual people, did to other actual people.
I have zero reason to abstain from criticism of those who treat others in shitty ways just because they have worked up some elaborate rationale for being so shitty. It's not the religion. It's the people treating others poorly. And I oppose the shitty treatment of others.
This idea that religions should be free to hate minority groups is a Republican, right wing, fucked up thing.
So you need to come up with something better than 'don't criticize anything done by people of faith'. Fuck that. No free pass. You are that. You own your actions, welcome to Earth, you have free will, what will you make of it?

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Islamophoia is not a liberal value [View all] Prophet 451 Oct 2014 OP

This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Oct 2014 #1

*bitter cynical chuckle* Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #2

I largely agree with you- not about the ignore list. I don't do ignore lists cali Oct 2014 #3

No, you seem able to have a constructive dialogue Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #5

well, I've always referred to that concept as "confirmation bias" cali Oct 2014 #22

I'm aware of confirmation bias Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #29

As I said, I think it's far more complex that simply "the law stops them" cali Oct 2014 #58

I think we're just going to have to disagree on the law part Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #67

That's a well-reasoned post. Blue_In_AK Oct 2014 #78

Thank you, sir n/t Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #92

Ma'am. :) Blue_In_AK Oct 2014 #97

Sorry. Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #99

Such a joke GummyBearz Oct 2014 #91

I listed modern Christian terrorists in my OP Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #101

So? GummyBearz Oct 2014 #119

"Christian terrorists seem to be a little nicer than islamic state terrorists" Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #122

I think you're missing how both fundamentalisms are intertwined. CJCRANE Oct 2014 #6

How could I be missing it when cali Oct 2014 #19

Where have we seen an increase in Islamic fundamentalism? CJCRANE Oct 2014 #27

Really ? Rhinodawg Oct 2014 #59

really? Link it. cali Oct 2014 #61

On brief look .... Rhinodawg Oct 2014 #64

Tell us did you watch Face the Nation on Sunday? azurnoir Oct 2014 #103

that isn't remotely like anything I've ever said, dear. cali Oct 2014 #137

it's the same logic as "we're not against Black people, just their massive criminal element" MisterP Oct 2014 #4

Pretty much n/t Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #7

"I don't hate gay people, I hate homosexuality." Another fun one from this mindset Scootaloo Oct 2014 #8

And we�re even getting a lot of that in this thread. �I�m not saying [certain group] is bad, I�m Chathamization Oct 2014 #112

No, it isn't. RedCappedBandit Oct 2014 #114

Do you think there is a difference between ZombieHorde Oct 2014 #154

Problem is they actually follow their holy book snooper2 Oct 2014 #9

I listed modern Christian terrorists in my OP Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #12

percentages matter snooper2 Oct 2014 #16

Only when you're trying to justify a prejudice Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #18

So would you, then. Dreamer Tatum Oct 2014 #28

this is such a tired and simplistic line. cali Oct 2014 #25

I would call equating a heavily armed ruthless group that has actually Dreamer Tatum Oct 2014 #34

not really, people that really follow their holy books would be assholes snooper2 Oct 2014 #37

Equal opportunity disdain is fine Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #43

I know, cut and paste adds some comedic value :) snooper2 Oct 2014 #49

You say "they" like you mean all. Maybe you mean some follow their holy book. Percentages are import rhett o rick Oct 2014 #33

See post 37 for clarification snooper2 Oct 2014 #39

Post 37 provides zip. You said that the "Problem is they actually follow their holy book" rhett o rick Oct 2014 #53

The phelps actually follow their holy book snooper2 Oct 2014 #57

Your ignore list contains much more than people...it includes entire concepts. Dreamer Tatum Oct 2014 #10

In the West, muslims are a MINORITY, and liberals traditionally protect closeupready Oct 2014 #11

Nnnnnno. Don't agree with you there, I'm afraid. sibelian Oct 2014 #21

No, it's not mainly because "prejudice is illogical". Liberals have traditionally relied on cali Oct 2014 #30

That moral basis RELIES on the fact that prejudice is illogical. sibelian Oct 2014 #56

Know your history. The idea of civil rights is itself a liberal idea. closeupready Oct 2014 #41

Certainly there is always propensity for the mainstream to dominate sibelian Oct 2014 #62

That'd be cool if liberals controlled the govment. We are currently ignoring major portions of the rhett o rick Oct 2014 #38

As a liberal, one should do what one can. Change starts with YOU. closeupready Oct 2014 #45

I like your avatar but I'll never look at meatballs the same. rhett o rick Oct 2014 #69

Then think of them as Rocky Mountain Oysters! closeupready Oct 2014 #79

You're not helping. nm rhett o rick Oct 2014 #130

I don't think the point is that they are different. sibelian Oct 2014 #13

Not to some Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #14

Are you allowed to link links? sibelian Oct 2014 #70

I'm honestly not sure Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #75

Give or take a hundred massacred women and children Dreamer Tatum Oct 2014 #15

Oh, never mind all that. sibelian Oct 2014 #24

Blowing folks to bits is so much more civilized. GeorgeGist Oct 2014 #106

Ooooga booga Rhinodawg Oct 2014 #132

Bad guys trying to bomb bad guys and missing. sibelian Oct 2014 #156

Adding "phobia" to the end of the word Islam does not make it immune from analysis or criticism. Throd Oct 2014 #17

Homophobes say exactly the same n/t Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #20

Nice try. Throd Oct 2014 #23

Ah, you're on the "Islam is different because it just is" train Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #26

No I'm not. Throd Oct 2014 #32

Probably because he/she accidentally watched 3 seconds of the 700 Club Dreamer Tatum Oct 2014 #48

Islam *is* different from homosexuality muriel_volestrangler Oct 2014 #150

Islam is a set of beliefs. Race and sexual orientation are a matter of nature. PeaceNikki Oct 2014 #151

I reserve the right to cali Oct 2014 #36

Like this poster did... Rhinodawg Oct 2014 #74

I understand that Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #120

yeah, but when I criticize aspects of a given religion, I do not feel compelled cali Oct 2014 #135

There, we disagree Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #141

That sounds tedious. Throd Oct 2014 #145

Religion is a choice, sexual orientation not. nt alp227 Oct 2014 #63

. sibelian Oct 2014 #73

Two things Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #123

Religion is a choice Marrah_G Oct 2014 #104

Fundy Christians don't think so Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #121

The Problem Hari Seldon Oct 2014 #31

Greatest quote ever, thank you. get the red out Oct 2014 #46

I couldn't agree more that getting off fossil fuels would solve a ton of our problems. Marr Oct 2014 #51

Well said. nm rhett o rick Oct 2014 #68

That's a bit simplistic muriel_volestrangler Oct 2014 #152

Message auto-removed Name removed Oct 2014 #35

We don't demean Christians on the basis of being Christian Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #40

What a guy. Happy to "take a shot" at deniers of rights. Dreamer Tatum Oct 2014 #44

I guess you weren't on DU earlier in the year. Lobo27 Oct 2014 #89

If I was around, I missed it Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #95

Neither is defending oppressive authoritarians. Marr Oct 2014 #42

I wish a few psychologists would study why it's so hard for the Left to say what you said. Dreamer Tatum Oct 2014 #47

Definitely. I think I understand where they're coming from, but still. Marr Oct 2014 #66

It always befuddles me how the Left, which prides itself on nuanced thought Dreamer Tatum Oct 2014 #71

George Bush get the red out Oct 2014 #84

There was radical Islam before Bush. nt Dreamer Tatum Oct 2014 #86

Most definitely! get the red out Oct 2014 #87

I can see that. nt Dreamer Tatum Oct 2014 #88

I'm definitely one of his ignorees leftynyc Oct 2014 #76

Welcome to the club. Dreamer Tatum Oct 2014 #81

I'll wear it as a badge of honor leftynyc Oct 2014 #83

I think what ends up happening is this. Lobo27 Oct 2014 #90

The easier access to power is an accident of history Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #50

Yes, our entire government and our election process is an accident of history. Dreamer Tatum Oct 2014 #55

I don't disagree with you-- but here we are. Marr Oct 2014 #60

What to do? Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #72

Certainly. Marr Oct 2014 #138

Yes, forgot about that Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #140

I think they are all equally disgusting Skittles Oct 2014 #52

Equal opportunity disdain is fair n/t Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #54

K&R liberal_at_heart Oct 2014 #65

Man is the only animal to have found the One True God....several of them. Mark Twain Tierra_y_Libertad Oct 2014 #77

K&R. YoungDemCA Oct 2014 #80

Post removed Post removed Oct 2014 #82

Glad you would be in favor of disenfranchising most of America's population... YoungDemCA Oct 2014 #94

Well, you know....Prop 8 ProudToBeBlueInRhody Oct 2014 #117

Exactly The Green Manalishi Oct 2014 #127

Two things Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #96

I am glad you have something that works for you, be it meds or faith. The Green Manalishi Oct 2014 #125

One could say the same of all gun owners Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #129

that is a different argument, and a good point. The Green Manalishi Oct 2014 #136

" insane, vile, hateful and hurtful paradigm" Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #139

Atheism isn't taken seriously because people with invisible sky friends need cognitive dissonance The Green Manalishi Oct 2014 #142

Glad to know I have company n/t Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #146

Nah, just take away the tax exempt status. ProudToBeBlueInRhody Oct 2014 #107

Yes, I'd go for that Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #109

The word fundamentalism does not sadoldgirl Oct 2014 #85

Hmm, yes. That's a good distinction Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #98

Pardon me, but I went to Quaker schools and Quaker meeting when I was younger Crunchy Frog Oct 2014 #155

If I'm wrong, I welcome correction Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #157

Not any Quakers that I've ever met, and I've met LOTS. Crunchy Frog Oct 2014 #161

How quickly things like Sabra and Shatila, the Bosnia Genocide, the LRA, the IRA, etc. get forgotten Chathamization Oct 2014 #93

Eloquently put Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #113

Most Americans never even HEARD the word "Muslim" prior to 9/11... Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2014 #100

"Otherising" Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #116

Religion has done that from the beginning.... Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2014 #144

Not all religions Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #158

No kidding. Presbyterian was good at helping the poor and Quaker is still anti-war. Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2014 #164

Let's cut the crap. MicaelS Oct 2014 #102

so what conclusion should we be drawing from your post? azurnoir Oct 2014 #105

That I think the ME / Islamic World is one really fucked up place. MicaelS Oct 2014 #111

You say "cut the crap" but your post is full of it Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #108

Equality for women and gays is a liberal value OKNancy Oct 2014 #110

Something of a generalisation Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #115

I think it's problematic saying that Western culture is better than African culture or Asian culture Chathamization Oct 2014 #149

Islam, Judaism and Christianity ... All peas in the same pod Trajan Oct 2014 #118

~No, equal disdain is fine Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #126

Islamaphobia is a Christian Dominionist trapping. Watch your step. The Dominionists are Nazis. blkmusclmachine Oct 2014 #124

We have 2000 years of Christian history to back up the fact that Christians can be just as violent. hrmjustin Oct 2014 #128

That's something I agree with entirely Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #131

People say many things, but it is only their actions others can use to define them. Bluenorthwest Oct 2014 #133

That's not what I said Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #134

No, it is what I said. I speak for myself. No one is tilting at you. Bluenorthwest Oct 2014 #143

I missed Feral Child Oct 2014 #147

No, equal disdain is fair Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #159

Your point is accurate. Feral Child Oct 2014 #167

I am firmly against any religion LostOne4Ever Oct 2014 #148

Define "persecute" Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #160

I would define it as LostOne4Ever Oct 2014 #168

What Ben Affleck missed in the Islamophobia debate PeaceNikki Oct 2014 #153

This is so interesting you should post it separately. Rhinodawg Oct 2014 #165

I view Muslims in the same way I view Christians. Neoma Oct 2014 #162

That's fair Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #163

The prevelance of repulsively right-wing opinions in Islam is currently unique. Donald Ian Rankin Oct 2014 #166

Any religion like Islam or similar is NOT compatible with liberalism Lee-Lee Oct 2014 #169

Authoritarianism is ALWAYS bad, whether it is religious or otherwise. alarimer Oct 2014 #170