General Discussion

SheilaT

(23,156 posts)

111. I think one of the reasons people

Sun Oct 12, 2014, 05:34 PM

Oct 2014

go for the raw food and magic rocks is that they are often told that Miracles Do Happen! They'll be fed some line of nonsense about how the magic rocks or the raw food or the meditating and prayer cured someone, so obviously it's better than medical science.

Every single time I read some story about someone supposedly recovering from some illness that was supposed to be fatal, I want to see documentation. Maybe the person was mis-diagnosed in the first place. Maybe the condition wasn't actually terminal, but that's what's presented. Maybe it's totally made up.

The sad truth is, that even with the best of medical science, people do die. We all die eventually, and it sucks when someone goes well before their time.

Add to this the fact that a lot of people do not understand the simplest basics of science or math -- the latter necessary to understand risks and probability -- and you have the perfect foundation for such crap.

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Study: You Can't Change an Anti-Vaxxer's Mind [View all] zappaman Oct 2014 OP

Too bad there's no vaccine against stupidity... SidDithers Oct 2014 #1

Mumps can cause sterility ... REP Oct 2014 #14

How happy do you think parents were, in the late 50's, when a polio vaccine became available... SidDithers Oct 2014 #17

I was born in '64. I know how happy parents were about the polio, MMR and other vaccines. REP Oct 2014 #22

Yup. I've got the shoulder scar too... SidDithers Oct 2014 #23

At the time, I just thought it was a lot of needles but I got a sucker afterwards REP Oct 2014 #25

So do I. murielm99 Oct 2014 #115

I also had the smallpox vac and was happy to get it. I have met people who survived smallpox. Shrike47 Oct 2014 #106

Just keep pushing statistics like this front and center. randome Oct 2014 #2

IMO, all personal belief exceptions should be eliminated... SidDithers Oct 2014 #5

Yes shenmue Oct 2014 #6

May have to come to that... daleanime Oct 2014 #33

The parents should go to jail for child abuse, imo. joshcryer Oct 2014 #67

Oh really? yeoman6987 Oct 2014 #178

The difference is letting your child go to church or not... zappaman Oct 2014 #179

Maybe. I just hate telling parents how to parent. yeoman6987 Oct 2014 #180

Responsibilities to the community matter. -eom- HuckleB Oct 2014 #181

Merely being biologically capable of conceiving Feral Child Oct 2014 #189

Yes. Nt Barack_America Oct 2014 #128

Nailed it, Sid. GoneOffShore Oct 2014 #155

This is because it's attached to a larger world view daredtowork Oct 2014 #3

I think part of it is information overload, too. randome Oct 2014 #15

The pseudo-information daredtowork Oct 2014 #28

Facts are also boring and dry. Peddlers of snake oil have always known how Maru Kitteh Oct 2014 #37

Regardless of how it's done daredtowork Oct 2014 #46

"Not Sure" did it by putting toilet water on the crops instead of Brawndo Maru Kitteh Oct 2014 #49

Well Mayim Bialik is not exactly the poster girl for Brawndo daredtowork Oct 2014 #50

What do you recommend? Blanks Oct 2014 #72

A more diplomatic approach daredtowork Oct 2014 #89

I like your approach... Blanks Oct 2014 #96

I can see why you're frustrated daredtowork Oct 2014 #99

Yes, the approach that you recommend is best... Blanks Oct 2014 #102

The deaths do make the matter urgent daredtowork Oct 2014 #105

Trust in science is a big part of it, but... Blanks Oct 2014 #109

There is also a lack of trust in doctors daredtowork Oct 2014 #119

Better trust in science will come with better education REP Oct 2014 #24

Everyone that I know who has not vaccinated their children has a Masters degree or higher Tumbulu Oct 2014 #57

Anecdotal "evidence" - do you have any stats TBF Oct 2014 #69

what sort of response is this? Tumbulu Oct 2014 #117

So nothing then - ok. nt TBF Oct 2014 #123

You just have to go out on the street and ask around daredtowork Oct 2014 #142

Your argument is bigger TBF Oct 2014 #143

Steve Jobs was similar to an antivaxer. He waited to cure himself and then it was too late. randome Oct 2014 #153

Too many times people that are enormously successful in one facet of their lives believe they Ikonoklast Oct 2014 #183

Which explains why so many successful parents fall for the anti-vax bullshit. zappaman Oct 2014 #184

And it seems many such as those parents are the ones with "Indigo Children". Ikonoklast Oct 2014 #186

You know he had pancreatic cancer Tumbulu Oct 2014 #202

Yes, that's true daredtowork Oct 2014 #167

Thank you for your insightful posts Tumbulu Oct 2014 #203

Weary sigh. The two sources I've seen promoting that meme are Dr. Nancy Snyderman & Dr. Paul Offit. proverbialwisdom Oct 2014 #185

ageofautism is not a reliable source... SidDithers Oct 2014 #194

Weary sigh indeed. zappaman Oct 2014 #195

not in this case. this anti vaccine shit is also a problem with college educated upper middleclass La Lioness Priyanka Oct 2014 #122

But everyone on DU wants to thump their chest and claim it is only the fundamentalists Tumbulu Oct 2014 #135

no, this is the lefts version of climate change denial. i feel like i wrote an op about this La Lioness Priyanka Oct 2014 #150

However, those people's education is often not one that includes science. HuckleB Oct 2014 #147

Not around where I live, all have Tumbulu Oct 2014 #204

Yeah, I see a lot of that worldview on my hospice unit Maru Kitteh Oct 2014 #36

Amen. MissB Oct 2014 #60

Thank you so much MissB :-) Maru Kitteh Oct 2014 #137

I think one of the reasons people SheilaT Oct 2014 #111

The choice should be this: vaccinate your kids or prepare to home school them Warpy Oct 2014 #38

The people that I know who do not vaccinate all home school Tumbulu Oct 2014 #58

Do you think truth outweighs being nice? nt alp227 Oct 2014 #40

Absolutely correct! Tumbulu Oct 2014 #56

Well the shoe fits phil89 Oct 2014 #78

Fair points LeftishBrit Oct 2014 #139

Some one just has to give up on, logic fails on them. One hopes that with their idiocracy they RKP5637 Oct 2014 #4

..... or a climate denier's.... or a creationist's... Bigmack Oct 2014 #7

"God is my surgeon, I shall not want." randome Oct 2014 #18

"Thank God they caught it in time..."... Bigmack Oct 2014 #21

K&R Solly Mack Oct 2014 #8

If there were a vaccine for Ebola would they avoid it? Downwinder Oct 2014 #9

I know my Facebook friends would avoid an ebola vaccine... Blanks Oct 2014 #26

naturalnews... **shudder**... SidDithers Oct 2014 #30

They don't like to be compared to a cult, but that's what it looks like to me. eom Blanks Oct 2014 #32

I liken it to an argument r/t religion .... etherealtruth Oct 2014 #10

We've got to give them another story to believe Lefty Thinker Oct 2014 #11

Science vs. "big pharma/medicine" - interesting. Maru Kitteh Oct 2014 #41

Yes, I keep thinking that it is time to think of something very creative Tumbulu Oct 2014 #59

Mumps causes sterility. The Illuminati don't want the kids of smart people like you to reproduce... hunter Oct 2014 #87

They aren't just wacko right wing bible thumpers. iandhr Oct 2014 #12

Yeah, RFK Jr is an asshat when it comes to this issue. zappaman Oct 2014 #13

The problem is that he can't be trusted there either. HuckleB Oct 2014 #20

Anti vaccination crusaders and pro lifers are both cut from the same cloth. Initech Oct 2014 #16

How about this "stupid smart person" Maher didn't mention? Archae Oct 2014 #27

Easy test Treant Oct 2014 #44

What's most facepalmingly ironic about the whole thing NuclearDem Oct 2014 #159

I believe that Bill Maher may be anti-vax too. n/t Crunchy Frog Oct 2014 #35

This type of closed-mind is spreading fast in the age of the Internet. HuckleB Oct 2014 #19

I was engaged in extensive discussions on Facebook on the 'CDC whistleblower' story... Blanks Oct 2014 #29

They believe smallpox was eradicated with clean water? seriously? Marrah_G Oct 2014 #53

They believe a lot of things that would make you cringe... Blanks Oct 2014 #71

Uh oh. ZombieHorde Oct 2014 #31

So, if you can't actually change their minds, why spend so much effort trying to? Electric Monk Oct 2014 #34

Nope, because vaccine uptake of 85-90% is required for that (n/t) Spider Jerusalem Oct 2014 #47

You must stand up to them so that the onlookers know... Blanks Oct 2014 #73

And anyone's for the matter. alp227 Oct 2014 #39

"Don't Get The Flu Vaccine." Treant Oct 2014 #42

I'm in the opposite position. Lunacee_2013 Oct 2014 #52

people in your position are exactly why people should get vaccinated Marrah_G Oct 2014 #54

You're not my doctor. Nobody on this board is. I take HIS advice, closeupready Oct 2014 #84

People are worried about ebola,... awoke_in_2003 Oct 2014 #43

Fortunately there is no need for the smallpox vaccine anymore Marrah_G Oct 2014 #55

The antivaxers also believe that smallpox wasn't eradicated... Blanks Oct 2014 #74

LOL nuts Marrah_G Oct 2014 #88

News flash: people's beliefs on the whole are not rational caraher Oct 2014 #45

Sometimes people are paid to be irrational... Blanks Oct 2014 #76

True caraher Oct 2014 #95

It's part of the new "Choose your own facts" America Algernon Moncrieff Oct 2014 #48

Google allows you to know your allies & their shifting rationalizations. Do their arguments hold up? proverbialwisdom Oct 2014 #113

I'd prefer another more serious unedited interview w Dr. Melinda Wharton but I haven't seen one.(nt) proverbialwisdom Apr 2015 #209

The only thing that will change their minds is... MicaelS Oct 2014 #51

Probably not even then. I can easily see a paranoid conspiracy theory being spun... Silent3 Oct 2014 #68

Meanwhile, US Vaccine Court awards $10,000,000.00+ to an autistic 10-year old ucrdem Oct 2014 #61

So, progressoid Oct 2014 #62

So the Kennedy bashers are running it out. Fast. nt ucrdem Oct 2014 #63

? Bashers are running what out? progressoid Oct 2014 #64

David Kirby is not a reliable source for information... SidDithers Oct 2014 #70

LOL. The US Vaccine Injury Compensation Court paid out $276,424,636.81 in fiscal year 2013. ucrdem Oct 2014 #79

Do you know anything about David Kirby?... SidDithers Oct 2014 #80

The Huffpost author is irrelevant. nt ucrdem Oct 2014 #82

Source: U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. ucrdem Oct 2014 #83

His information about these Vaccine court rulings is accurate. pnwmom Oct 2014 #182

People are damaged by vaccines... Blanks Oct 2014 #77

Try telling that to the parents of a severly autistic child. ucrdem Oct 2014 #86

I have three autistic children that are adults now... Blanks Oct 2014 #94

I said "Regardless of the source of the injury." Please reread my post, thanks. nt ucrdem Oct 2014 #97

Let me rephrase... Blanks Oct 2014 #100

If there's a statement you'd like to challenge, please quote it directly, thanks. nt ucrdem Oct 2014 #104

Sure... Blanks Oct 2014 #107

No such connection therein stated or implied, as demonstrated once already. Please read carefully: ucrdem Oct 2014 #108

It makes no sense then. Bye. Blanks Oct 2014 #110

It isn't quite as simple as anti-vax. ucrdem Oct 2014 #141

It's unfortunate that you don't understand it. Blanks Oct 2014 #144

Unsupported & easily disproven talking points do not a thorough refutation make. ucrdem Oct 2014 #152

The Kennedy article that you posted linked thimerasol to autism. Blanks Oct 2014 #156

The real story. HuckleB Oct 2014 #157

And more reality. HuckleB Oct 2014 #158

Like the quote says, sagat Oct 2014 #65

Intelligence and educational level are irrelevant here eridani Oct 2014 #66

How about an insurance shift FreeJoe Oct 2014 #75

Since 1989, the US Vaccine Injury Compensation Court has paid $2,857,926,807.60 in damages. ucrdem Oct 2014 #81

Source: U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. ucrdem Oct 2014 #85

every parent is given information about the vaccine injury fund when they consent to vaccination. missingthebigdog Oct 2014 #134

Can you post a link to support this? Thanks. nt ucrdem Oct 2014 #140

Title 42 � 300aa�26. Can you answer my question? missingthebigdog Oct 2014 #145

$2,857,926,807.60 in vaccine injury damage awards should give you your answer. nt ucrdem Oct 2014 #154

Is there a reason you won't just say yes or no? missingthebigdog Oct 2014 #160

You really don't understand the difference between science and courts of any kind, do you? HuckleB Oct 2014 #161

I think anti-vaxxers should refuse any and all vaccines. kestrel91316 Oct 2014 #90

Anti-Vaxxers not a problem in NYC (NYT article) because... mainer Oct 2014 #91

Are you from Maine? Seen this Op-Ed? Don't be afraid to read in full & please check out links, too. proverbialwisdom Oct 2014 #92

Here on DU, one's decisions about one's body belong to the Pompous Brigade, closeupready Oct 2014 #93

yes, the pompous and so very rude brigade Tumbulu Oct 2014 #206

Chris Mooney is a 37 yo Yalie; here's an older Yalie, Dan Olmsted. Each earned BA degree in English. proverbialwisdom Oct 2014 #98

what is your point? a writer has an english degree from yale? La Lioness Priyanka Oct 2014 #121

The editorializing in Mooney's article is unsupported & offensive. The study is worth reading, OTOH. proverbialwisdom Oct 2014 #126

no, it's not unsupported. nt La Lioness Priyanka Oct 2014 #130

Mooney is correct, and his claims are supported by the evidence base. HuckleB Oct 2014 #148

Do you regard as problematic everyone on earth except those following the exact 2014 CDC schedule? proverbialwisdom Oct 2014 #101

I see the Andrew Wakefield Fan club has shown up again... SidDithers Oct 2014 #112

I like accuracy. Please point out a concrete example of "misdirection/half-truths about vaccination" proverbialwisdom Oct 2014 #116

Anything. Literally any-fucking-thing, in defence of Wakefield... SidDithers Oct 2014 #118

CDC Whistleblower Text Exchange With Mrs. Wakefield: �Your husband�s career was unjustly damaged..." proverbialwisdom Oct 2014 #124

Keep trying. Wakefield is a fraud and continues to be a dangerous asshat... SidDithers Oct 2014 #125

AUTISM SPEAKS: Regressive Autism Reported Twice as Often among African American Children proverbialwisdom Oct 2014 #138

Anti-vax bullshit should get a poster banned, under the Crazy Talk part of the TOS... SidDithers Oct 2014 #149

Dr Gorski read the following & provided comments. Skim it, skip the parts you regard as insufferable proverbialwisdom Oct 2014 #166

More anti-vax bullshit from an another anti-vax website... SidDithers Oct 2014 #170

#CDCwhistleblower #hearthiswell - unreported in the MSM, but not credible? Really? (nt) proverbialwisdom Oct 2014 #174

The only thing emerging is the continued flow of anti-vaccine BS. HuckleB Oct 2014 #162

As for the big "whistleblower." HuckleB Oct 2014 #163

Letter from CDC Whistleblower to CDC official Julie Gerberding proverbialwisdom Oct 2014 #165

In other words, you choose to ignore reality. HuckleB Oct 2014 #169

Worth the automatic hide and thread lock-out for citing blacklisted site, HuckleB; this is tedious. proverbialwisdom Oct 2014 #171

Why are you spamming debunked nonsense, and making baseless claims about other items? HuckleB Oct 2014 #173

This is the very reason many people turn their backs on vaccines entirely Tumbulu Oct 2014 #136

Sorry, but that's simply not true. HuckleB Oct 2014 #146

Guess you have not been reading my other posts Tumbulu Oct 2014 #168

Post removed Post removed Oct 2014 #172

My youngest brother got measles and chicken pox at the same time. He almost died. appleannie1 Oct 2014 #103

There shouldn't be onecaliberal Oct 2014 #114

yup or public school premises (via charter schools) La Lioness Priyanka Oct 2014 #120

They've proven as much in this thread Union Scribe Oct 2014 #127

No kidding. N/T zappaman Oct 2014 #132

Idiots will be idiots. Barack_America Oct 2014 #129

Purposely endangering the lives onecaliberal Oct 2014 #131

It was quite fascinating to me... 3catwoman3 Oct 2014 #133

Quarantine their children at home until public risk eliminated on point Oct 2014 #151

Quarantine all adults also? HockeyMom Oct 2014 #188

Yes, Quarantine all those who should be vaccinated and are not. They pose a risk to public health on point Oct 2014 #190

You do realize for your fanatical HockeyMom Oct 2014 #191

Sorry fanatics are ones with ignorance endangering everyone else on point Oct 2014 #197

Leave? HockeyMom Oct 2014 #198

You misunderstand. The can leave quarantine anytime they like. Get vaccinated or get sick. on point Oct 2014 #199

And the bottom line here is... pipi_k Oct 2014 #164

If one does not challenge their claims, those who do not know enough can be conned. HuckleB Oct 2014 #175

True. zappaman Oct 2014 #176

No surprise, but this doesn't just apply to vaccines. Even on DU I have still_one Oct 2014 #177

Ridiculing them online won't make them admit error. Orsino Oct 2014 #187

If only there were a vaccine they could give DU KamaAina Oct 2014 #192

^ This. nt TBF Oct 2014 #193

Hide 'em if you don't like 'em... SidDithers Oct 2014 #196

Are you calling these Harvard & other MDs baseless names & suggesting they should be made pariahs? proverbialwisdom Oct 2014 #207

The odd thing is, only on DU do people go all nutty about Tumbulu Oct 2014 #208

Seems it would take plenty convincing for someone to even become an anti-vaxxer in the first place JonLP24 Oct 2014 #200

My late father-in-law contracted polio while LibDemAlways Oct 2014 #201

All Anti Vaxers should be sentenced to spend at least one day in the late fifties. alphafemale Oct 2014 #205