General Discussion

DanTex

(20,709 posts)

75. Maybe. I'm just saying that it's different from physical theft.

Tue Oct 14, 2014, 10:24 AM

Oct 2014

The moral question is more complicated. IP in general is more complicated than physical property. Once it is created, the supply is infinite. Legally, the creator is given a temporary monopoly as a reward, and in order to incentivize people to invent things. The point is to mimic physical property in such a way that society as a whole benefits.

When you pirate songs, you are violating the law, sure, but are you harming society? Are you harming the person who created the IP? That depends. One one hand, you can copy IP with the intention of selling it for your own profit. This is clearly immoral. On the other hand, you can find a copy of an old song that is no longer being sold for profit anywhere but is still under copyright. Copying this song is a violation of copyright law, but it is net beneficial to society -- you get to listen to the song, and nothing else changes. And there are other scenarios. It's not as simple as stealing a physical object from the owner.

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According to your values, is illegally downloading a song, TV show, or movie immoral? [View all] ZombieHorde Oct 2014 OP

Can you even download a song from youtube? bravenak Oct 2014 #1

Yes. Any youtube video can be downloaded as an mp3. nt ZombieHorde Oct 2014 #2

Oh. I never even knew that. bravenak Oct 2014 #3

I know how to download mp4s, can't download mp3s anymore. If the material is copyrighted or the freshwest Oct 2014 #9

I should try that next time I want to watch something. bravenak Oct 2014 #12

Well, I still wouldn't download a Hollywood kind of movie. And I've got tons of DVDs that I bought freshwest Oct 2014 #125

Virtually all material on the internet is protected by copyright - Ms. Toad Oct 2014 #67

Not sure what you mean by downloading a song off of YouTube. Live and Learn Oct 2014 #4

Bandwidth limits? Erich Bloodaxe BSN Oct 2014 #60

No (as to assuming it is legal) Ms. Toad Oct 2014 #70

YouTube removes copyrighted material when it knows about it Live and Learn Oct 2014 #77

You Tube is protecting itself when it takes down the material. Ms. Toad Oct 2014 #94

I wish I knew how to download something from YouTube... countryjake Oct 2014 #5

It is easy really. TM99 Oct 2014 #7

Thanks for that. countryjake Oct 2014 #19

Yup, it's highly annoying when my playlists suddenly have that Erich Bloodaxe BSN Oct 2014 #62

if you google "video downloaders" dixiegrrrrl Oct 2014 #17

I'm having a "doh" moment, here. countryjake Oct 2014 #23

Not all vids can be downloaded there, but most can. dixiegrrrrl Oct 2014 #26

The video I'd like to save isn't music or a movie or show... countryjake Oct 2014 #27

I don't lose sleep over it JonLP24 Oct 2014 #6

actually very easy whatthehey Oct 2014 #65

Like a minor traffic violation get the red out Oct 2014 #8

Depends. Do they offer me a way to pay for it? Recursion Oct 2014 #10

As an added plug, there are lots of sites with all Creative Commons music, which is legal Recursion Oct 2014 #11

Creative Commons is a great tool for artists when the marketing industry has rejected them. hunter Oct 2014 #128

Your question brings up other questions. Jenoch Oct 2014 #13

I have downloaded things that are no longer available hobbit709 Oct 2014 #14

Immoral if a legal download is available for sale. Nye Bevan Oct 2014 #15

Best answer! tblue Oct 2014 #107

Yes. n/t Mugu Oct 2014 #16

It's stealing. Is that immoral? badtoworse Oct 2014 #18

Some how I knew the morality police would have showed up by now davidpdx Oct 2014 #24

Morality police? What makes intellectual property different than any other kind of property? badtoworse Oct 2014 #33

If it is being for your own use and not being sold there is no theft davidpdx Oct 2014 #34

So it's OK to break into someone's house and steal stuff as long as you don't fence it? badtoworse Oct 2014 #36

Well, one thing that makes it different is that stealing a physical object means taking it away DanTex Oct 2014 #40

Unless the owner of the IP has authorized its duplication, you are taking something from him. badtoworse Oct 2014 #43

Not really. You have to admit there's a difference between physically stealing something DanTex Oct 2014 #50

There are differences in the examples you gave, but all of them are wrong. badtoworse Oct 2014 #59

Maybe. I'm just saying that it's different from physical theft. DanTex Oct 2014 #75

See Post 82. I think it's easier to just respect the wishes of the IP owner badtoworse Oct 2014 #84

I don't see this as an "ethical pretzel". I think it's a good thing to reason things out in detail. DanTex Oct 2014 #98

Thanks. Looks like a good read. badtoworse Oct 2014 #101

You're welcome. DanTex Oct 2014 #114

Interesting article and a good analysis badtoworse Oct 2014 #153

If the song is no longer being sold anywhere, then ask permission of the owner of the rights. Ms. Toad Oct 2014 #95

You're only depriving the craftsman of payment if you would have been willing to pay otherwise. DanTex Oct 2014 #112

The choice of distribution model is not yours to make - Ms. Toad Oct 2014 #140

The difference seems to be that mythology Oct 2014 #88

Just to add, in college, pretty much everyone I knew copied songs without authorization. DanTex Oct 2014 #52

Now you are just rationalizing badtoworse Oct 2014 #64

What I'm doing is reasoning. Reasoning is important. DanTex Oct 2014 #73

I think we've gone as far with this one as we can. badtoworse Oct 2014 #82

Plus, of course, the reality shown by actual scientific studies Erich Bloodaxe BSN Oct 2014 #66

The artist may choose to let his/her song be used for free to gain exposure Ms. Toad Oct 2014 #96

What if someone takes a picture of artwork? phil89 Oct 2014 #151

I think it depends. badtoworse Oct 2014 #154

Yes, because I make a habit of breaking into houses davidpdx Oct 2014 #42

What an erudite response. badtoworse Oct 2014 #45

it is copying, not stealing! wildbilln864 Oct 2014 #119

Again, my suggestion is that you read up on IP Law and understand what the IP owner has authorized. badtoworse Oct 2014 #122

Like the guy who took my car for his own use. Kaleva Oct 2014 #135

One very basic difference whatthehey Oct 2014 #47

Who owns the door? badtoworse Oct 2014 #48

The person who originally paid. Who owns the CD or DVD uploaded? Same answer in a sane world. whatthehey Oct 2014 #55

My suggestion is that you read up on IP Law. badtoworse Oct 2014 #63

People are not disagreeing with you as to what laws ARE. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Oct 2014 #72

precisely. spanone Oct 2014 #97

Well, it's not stealing, certainly Recursion Oct 2014 #143

it's stealing money from the copyright holder nothing less. spanone Oct 2014 #148

By that logic Microsoft is "stealing" my income by making server products... Recursion Oct 2014 #149

How do you know the person phil89 Oct 2014 #152

The Merriam-Webster definition of stealing sure fits badtoworse Oct 2014 #150

Report: Album Piracy May Help Musicians Sell baldguy Oct 2014 #20

I got a round of applause in a theater after the advertisement... GummyBearz Oct 2014 #21

No kidding davidpdx Oct 2014 #25

I would have clapped for you. bigwillq Oct 2014 #85

Are you aware of how many people work in the industry that brings the movie to your theatre? Beaverhausen Oct 2014 #103

Capitalism is immoral - TBF Oct 2014 #22

^^^This^^^ Tom Ripley Oct 2014 #44

I was trying to think of a reply to the OP, but now I d have to. johnp3907 Oct 2014 #49

Artists should be government employees. Art should be government approved and funded. FrodosPet Oct 2014 #54

Well, that's why you need very high marginal rates on massive incomes. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Oct 2014 #74

Why? JonLP24 Oct 2014 #80

You mean like in the erstwhile Third Reich or Soviet Union? Because that is what one gets. WinkyDink Oct 2014 #105

Organized Theft on a Global Scale Octafish Oct 2014 #61

I hope you grow your own food. Manufacture your own cloth and turn it into clothing. KittyWampus Oct 2014 #110

I hope you are well paid. nt TBF Oct 2014 #111

What's an "illegal download?" MADem Oct 2014 #28

I live outside the US davidpdx Oct 2014 #29

Because tv shows are like food joeglow3 Oct 2014 #92

Downloading is not illegal. Sharing a downloaded file is illegal. randome Oct 2014 #30

+1 davidpdx Oct 2014 #35

You indicate illegal downloads as opposed to legal downloads? liberal N proud Oct 2014 #31

if it is available through legal means then yes CBGLuthier Oct 2014 #32

This is the best answer. Bluenorthwest Oct 2014 #39

Seems Iggy Pop is torn but sympathetic to pirates. gvstn Oct 2014 #37

No (nt) bigwillq Oct 2014 #38

Not if the artist is dead Tom Ripley Oct 2014 #41

The strange thing about some of the 'Yes' responses... randome Oct 2014 #46

Apparently, Millennials are against capitalism... FrodosPet Oct 2014 #69

It is teft so i say yes it is immoral. hrmjustin Oct 2014 #51

"Breakin' the law, breakin' the law..." panader0 Oct 2014 #53

I voted no. I'm 51. whatthehey Oct 2014 #57

I voted no and I'm 53 FLPanhandle Oct 2014 #78

Not enough nuance, the option I ould go with is Erich Bloodaxe BSN Oct 2014 #56

Theft is Theft. Octafish Oct 2014 #58

I'll first make a fair effort to buy it at a fair price, but... FLPanhandle Oct 2014 #68

I did a paper on this in college tabbycat31 Oct 2014 #71

Really? You only have 64 gig of music? randome Oct 2014 #86

According to my itunes I have exactly 12 tabbycat31 Oct 2014 #93

If said work of art is readily available for purchase... NCTraveler Oct 2014 #76

Fuck artists and musicians trying to earn a living. I don't like paying for shit. Throd Oct 2014 #79

Money contaminates everything it touches with immorality. But I would say it's unethical. hunter Oct 2014 #81

There are small crimes and big crimes el_bryanto Oct 2014 #83

Depends on what you mean by "illegal". Dr. Strange Oct 2014 #87

yes, but i am not religious so i dont think all immorality is at the same level of sin. La Lioness Priyanka Oct 2014 #89

This message was self-deleted by its author La Lioness Priyanka Oct 2014 #89

No. Xithras Oct 2014 #99

I no longer steal music, now that a viable product is available. DisgustipatedinCA Oct 2014 #100

I can think of no crime so heartless, so cruel so sinister than illegally downloading a song, Douglas Carpenter Oct 2014 #102

Let me ponder....."Illegally...." If only I could find the definition...... WinkyDink Oct 2014 #104

"Legal" and "Moral" have no relation to each other. KentuckyWoman Oct 2014 #106

This is my favorite reply in this thread. ZombieHorde Oct 2014 #144

It's not a black and white issue. vi5 Oct 2014 #108

there is a huge opportunity for artists to put works into the Public Domain KurtNYC Oct 2014 #109

I went with "other." Chan790 Oct 2014 #113

Piracy kills. NuclearDem Oct 2014 #115

Yes, but not very. N.T. Donald Ian Rankin Oct 2014 #116

Might be... But, I genuinely don't care. LostInAnomie Oct 2014 #117

Do you think every person who works at or supports the record companies is a highly paid exec? Beaverhausen Oct 2014 #118

Like I said: Don't care. LostInAnomie Oct 2014 #120

you missed the point completely Beaverhausen Oct 2014 #124

downloadhelper! n/t wildbilln864 Oct 2014 #121

Here's an informative video to help people decide: kentauros Oct 2014 #123

what's immoral is to refuse to provide for free something that can be easily distributed for free. unblock Oct 2014 #126

Is recording a song from the radio, or a TV show to DVR, immoral? Spider Jerusalem Oct 2014 #127

I'd say that, in hindsight, we can reasonably say that home taping did NOT kill music. Maedhros Oct 2014 #129

You need another choice, "I say immoral, but I voted for stealing anyway." Rex Oct 2014 #130

Nope. I believe art is part of the public domain and shouldn't be held hostage by huge media conglom cbdo2007 Oct 2014 #131

I Voted Yes ProfessorGAC Oct 2014 #132

Not at present tuhaybey Oct 2014 #133

Depends MillennialDem Oct 2014 #134

This thread brings up another question tabbycat31 Oct 2014 #136

Personally I do not feel this is a bad thing. Glassunion Oct 2014 #139

Actually I don't see any issues with that. KentuckyWoman Oct 2014 #155

Me, personally: Blue_Tires Oct 2014 #137

I had a very brief carreer as an artist in the music industry and file sharing killed it. Glassunion Oct 2014 #138

I think it is every bit as reprehensible as masturbation. nt bemildred Oct 2014 #141

lol Chimeradog Oct 2014 #142

I attend 15-20 concerts every year. U4ikLefty Oct 2014 #145

It probably depends on who you ask. hughee99 Oct 2014 #146

Saw Tom Petty last Tuesday. U4ikLefty Oct 2014 #147