General Discussion

NuclearDem

(16,184 posts)

72. Don't let your mind open so far it falls out.

Thu Oct 16, 2014, 07:17 PM

Oct 2014

No, I'm not a "scientist"; I'm just someone with a firm grasp of basic scientific principles.

And no, I don't consider the GMO issue entirely settled either, which you would have known if you'd actually read what I said about changing my beliefs if the science leads that way.

But you're the one writing off peer review, a foundational part of the scientific method, and mixing up terms left and right. Science is not a democracy, and you don't get to twist it to fit your own preconceptions of the world.

I'm not belligerent because you believe differently about GMOs; I'm belligerent for the same reason I'm belligerent towards creationists, climate change denialists, and anti-vaxxers: because you don't seem to think the basic rules of science don't apply to your way of thinking.

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Bill Nye the Scinece Guy on GMOs [View all] eridani Oct 2014 OP

I enjoyed the video. ZombieHorde Oct 2014 #1

WTF does labelling have to do with fear of science? eridani Oct 2014 #2

Really! "fear of science"?! For Crying OUT LOUD@! Gawd! Cha Oct 2014 #4

Anti GMO = anti vaxx = climate change denial. ZombieHorde Oct 2014 #7

Labels provide information, that's all. merrily Oct 2014 #26

Like a label on a science textbook warning that evolution may be in doubt? alp227 Oct 2014 #121

+1 HuckleB Oct 2014 #171

You know it's not like that at all. merrily Oct 2014 #182

Actually, they wouldn't Scootaloo Oct 2014 #185

Thank you. I am totally confident that the combined resources of science and the US govt can merrily Oct 2014 #186

Science isn't involved Scootaloo Oct 2014 #188

Science might be helpful in coming up with wording. If I am mistaken, it's irrelevant to merrily Oct 2014 #189

You're operating purely on faith Scootaloo Oct 2014 #193

I wish I could rec individual posts. NuclearDem Oct 2014 #195

No, I am operating out of experience. merrily Oct 2014 #198

Yup, it's just a leavening agent Scootaloo Oct 2014 #200

But, my point is, I do google. Always. merrily Oct 2014 #208

It's not that simple. NuclearDem Oct 2014 #194

I never said it was simple. I do, however, aver it's not as impossible as it's being portrayed. merrily Oct 2014 #196

Its very simple Jim Beard Oct 2014 #205

No, it's not. NuclearDem Oct 2014 #214

Someone should put a label on this pigeon. yellowcanine Oct 2014 #212

This statement is whay too broad... Jim Beard Oct 2014 #209

Given that description, I imagine it would be hard for someone to know what you're talking about. NuclearDem Oct 2014 #219

Your equation is wrong and would be insulting if it weren't so stupid. KittyWampus Oct 2014 #33

Correct! BillZBubb Oct 2014 #80

+ 1000! Tumbulu Oct 2014 #93

That equation is quite correct. HuckleB Oct 2014 #144

Why is it you think your science is the only science. Jim Beard Oct 2014 #220

Science is science. HuckleB Oct 2014 #222

More like Monsanto's science. They spend millions on political donations in this country and sabrina 1 Oct 2014 #235

Anti-GMO labeling = climate change denial. pnwmom Oct 2014 #119

All three I listed are contradicted by science. ZombieHorde Oct 2014 #126

There is NOTHING about truth in labeling that is contradicted by science. pnwmom Oct 2014 #175

I didn't list pro-labels, I listed anti-GMOs. ZombieHorde Oct 2014 #226

There IS a scientific reason to label GMO's in food. pnwmom Oct 2014 #239

The FDA should know what is in the foods, ZombieHorde Oct 2014 #240

The FDA relies on industry studies. in the case of drugs, they rely on pnwmom Oct 2014 #242

And just where did you get that not-so-scientific opinion from? Are you seriously supporting sabrina 1 Oct 2014 #127

The vast majority of studies say GMOs are good. ZombieHorde Oct 2014 #131

Give us an example of the claims 'people are making' about Monsanto that are false. sabrina 1 Oct 2014 #140

I have discussed this issue throughout this thread. ZombieHorde Oct 2014 #148

The GMO producers control the research by limiting the seeds, requiring purchasers to sign pnwmom Oct 2014 #241

That's a myth. ZombieHorde Oct 2014 #243

The "independent" researchers can only publish with the permission of the producers. pnwmom Oct 2014 #246

Scientific American wasn't wrong when that article was published, ZombieHorde Oct 2014 #249

Doesn't matter. GMO products were released during the years when the ban was in place, pnwmom Oct 2014 #250

The vast majority say that they are an ecological disaster eridani Oct 2014 #253

Most of the ones I have seen didn't concern resistant weeds. ZombieHorde Oct 2014 #259

Isn't it wonderful to accelerate that process by 100-fold? n/t eridani Oct 2014 #261

No, anti-GMO is more like "Geo-engineering will solve climate change, so no worries". MH1 Oct 2014 #190

You must know how stupid that is. roody Oct 2014 #197

I'm not saying people who deny science on one will deny science on the others. ZombieHorde Oct 2014 #229

lol closeupready Oct 2014 #231

That is a myth. ZombieHorde Oct 2014 #6

There is no advantage to GMO whatsoever as long as it is controlled by corporations eridani Oct 2014 #9

Are there any peer-reviewed studies ZombieHorde Oct 2014 #10

So many that it's hardd to track them all eridani Oct 2014 #21

Did you know that Monsanto invented Astroturf? nxylas Oct 2014 #24

Correct! AstroTurf� was invented for a specific purpose, to replace living grass in the Astrodome: freshwest Oct 2014 #176

OK, I've spent much of my morning looking for actual ZombieHorde Oct 2014 #57

substantial increases in the number and volume of herbicides applied. J_J_ Oct 2014 #59

What number? HuckleB Oct 2014 #115

The real issue is not lawsuits but contamination of organic crops. merrily Oct 2014 #27

I'm not sure why that is an issue, ZombieHorde Oct 2014 #40

You might tell that to the farmers in Oxaca, Mexico, who got their corn crops contaminated after merrily Oct 2014 #43

The thread is about the video, which covered several GMO issues. ZombieHorde Oct 2014 #45

Okay, not this thread, but this subthread. merrily Oct 2014 #48

This guy believed that we have the right to know what we are eating: bvar22 Oct 2014 #65

Do you think he still believes that? nt ZombieHorde Oct 2014 #66

At the time, I believed it,.... bvar22 Oct 2014 #68

I believed many of the things he said before his election. ZombieHorde Oct 2014 #69

It's not. HuckleB Oct 2014 #90

Oh no they do not, I am a seed breeder Tumbulu Oct 2014 #95

Yes, they do. HuckleB Oct 2014 #96

I suggest that you stick to subjects that you have some knowledge of Tumbulu Oct 2014 #111

Is that why you can't support your claims? HuckleB Oct 2014 #160

Oh yeah? Do you work for Monsanto? Tumbulu Oct 2014 #94

Can you link us to the peer reviewed studies that prove your assertions? HuckleB Oct 2014 #97

If I am selling seed that is contaminated Tumbulu Oct 2014 #106

So you can't support your previous assertions. HuckleB Oct 2014 #108

No you obviously know nothing about my industry Tumbulu Oct 2014 #114

Oddly, I've supported my assertions while you have not. HuckleB Oct 2014 #132

So you can't prove your assertions that GMO doesn't contaminate other crops. Lost In America Oct 2014 #120

All crops "contaminate" other crops. HuckleB Oct 2014 #133

That is not USDA policy, so I don't know what's going on with the farmers you know. ZombieHorde Oct 2014 #101

It is a business policy Tumbulu Oct 2014 #109

He's made the same claims repeatedly. HuckleB Oct 2014 #110

Yeah. It's clearly not USDA policy. ZombieHorde Oct 2014 #113

The USDA does not purchase the crops. Tumbulu Oct 2014 #117

Well, he's not talking about basic facts of plant genetics, that's for sure. HuckleB Oct 2014 #136

No, no no Jim Beard Oct 2014 #146

good intentions pave the way to ... a what's that place again? belzabubba333 Oct 2014 #36

Definitely. ZombieHorde Oct 2014 #41

"GMOs are currently people's best hope for ending world hunger." nationalize the fed Oct 2014 #105

Wow. I cannot believe I am reading this nonsense right here on DU. I have read it years ago sabrina 1 Oct 2014 #137

Do you believe that GMOs have no place in the solution to world hunger? HuckleB Oct 2014 #142

I'll go with the experts and the growing rejection worldwide of Corporations like Monsanto who were sabrina 1 Oct 2014 #150

First, Monsanto is one of several big companies in the business. HuckleB Oct 2014 #153

Your opinion is becoming more and more the minority opinion, thankfully, after decades of sabrina 1 Oct 2014 #169

Yes, at DU, my opinion is losing sway. HuckleB Oct 2014 #170

If only. Monsanto was voted the 'most evil corporation' recently by 51% of respondents in a poll sabrina 1 Oct 2014 #173

LOL!!!!!! HuckleB Oct 2014 #201

Banned from 30 countries. The poll simply reflects the Global opinion of this evil Corporation. sabrina 1 Oct 2014 #232

GMOs developed by NON-PROFIT entities like golden rice certainly do eridani Oct 2014 #255

Are there any studies about the events in India? nt ZombieHorde Oct 2014 #147

Here are a few links regarding the tragedy of Indian Farmers. sabrina 1 Oct 2014 #172

Thanks for the links. ZombieHorde Oct 2014 #233

They're not because of GMOs. HuckleB Oct 2014 #215

The Scientific American article is interesting. ZombieHorde Oct 2014 #234

FEAR of SCIENCE Cha Oct 2014 #8

If your opinion is based on peer-reviewed studies, ZombieHorde Oct 2014 #11

If you can link to a peer-reviewed study indicating labels=fear, please link to them also... LanternWaste Oct 2014 #38

I never claimed labels cause fear. ZombieHorde Oct 2014 #39

I think the issue here druidity33 Oct 2014 #82

That is another myth. ZombieHorde Oct 2014 #86

Feel free to post links to those... nt. druidity33 Oct 2014 #181

Would seeing independent studies ZombieHorde Oct 2014 #228

Would you druidity33 Oct 2014 #247

Those are good things to consider, in my opinion. ZombieHorde Oct 2014 #260

I'll check it out, thanks. nt. druidity33 Oct 2014 #263

"What if people don't want to support fucking sociopathic corporations like Monsanto who make huge Cha Oct 2014 #15

We don't care because that doesn't happen. ZombieHorde Oct 2014 #58

Well, you've noted an anti-GMO fiction. HuckleB Oct 2014 #98

Don't be ridiculous Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #13

Mahalo, Prophet. Cha Oct 2014 #16

There are two reasons I'm against GMO labels. ZombieHorde Oct 2014 #17

OK, in response Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #19

I know my reasons against labels are based off speculation. ZombieHorde Oct 2014 #20

Withholding information is not a solution to your fear of alleged fear of science or alleged merrily Oct 2014 #28

+1 nt laundry_queen Oct 2014 #31

No company labels the technology used to create the seed. HuckleB Oct 2014 #99

Hmmm, let's see...you use a plasmid to introduce a gene that produces a toxin Tumbulu Oct 2014 #122

In other words, you don't know what your talking about. HuckleB Oct 2014 #130

Oh right, and you do? Tumbulu Oct 2014 #141

Yeah, I do. HuckleB Oct 2014 #143

No, what you post is not OK Tumbulu Oct 2014 #152

Anyone can see your claims. HuckleB Oct 2014 #154

Really. Damn. Cha Oct 2014 #102

Didn't you know that withholding information promotes scientific literacy? eridani Oct 2014 #112

Here's my two responses. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Oct 2014 #35

The problem is defining GM progressoid Oct 2014 #61

It's not my problem, or the problem of pretty much anyone who isn't a pro-GM booster. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Oct 2014 #71

Golden rice is being developed by a non-profit corporation eridani Oct 2014 #123

That's why I gave that as an example of the sort of 'GM' Erich Bloodaxe BSN Oct 2014 #192

Yes, in a broad definition Jim Beard Oct 2014 #204

Medicines? Hell, we're also growing pharmaceuticals in our plants. progressoid Oct 2014 #225

My question exactly BrotherIvan Oct 2014 #84

And hiding the ingredients fosters mistrust. Rex Oct 2014 #51

They both have the same labels. ZombieHorde Oct 2014 #53

I agree, a lot of people won't even notice they are buying GMO foods. Rex Oct 2014 #56

Well, one difference is that the gmo plants were patented Tumbulu Oct 2014 #125

Funny thing. Many plants were patented before GMOs, and continue to be so. HuckleB Oct 2014 #139

No, wrong again pal, they were the first open pollinated seed plants to be patented Tumbulu Oct 2014 #145

You've yet to prove me wrong. HuckleB Oct 2014 #149

Yes, why don't you read through that history? Tumbulu Oct 2014 #162

So, your only response is another logical fallacy? HuckleB Oct 2014 #164

I think that you need to read the history, and if you wont read Tumbulu Oct 2014 #166

I know the history. HuckleB Oct 2014 #168

beyond ridiculous I will ignore now Tumbulu Oct 2014 #254

No seed technology is labeled. Not one. HuckleB Oct 2014 #92

All they have to do is label food products. Rex Oct 2014 #177

It's not rocket science. It's baseless fear mongering. HuckleB Oct 2014 #202

Agreed. Don't see why Democrats, who are into regulation and informing people, would object. freshwest Oct 2014 #183

If you believe the fear of science hurts people, then you are helping perpetuate that Rex Oct 2014 #47

I don't think I have that much influence on other people. ZombieHorde Oct 2014 #52

Yes, not really about you - just in general. Humans are suspicious and curious by nature imo. Rex Oct 2014 #54

I fear when science has not tested something that is new Tumbulu Oct 2014 #104

GMO plants have been tested more than any other type of plant. HuckleB Oct 2014 #163

Scientific epidemiological studies of GMO's post-FDA approval cannot be conducted without pnwmom Oct 2014 #118

Why is the label needed for the studies? nt ZombieHorde Oct 2014 #128

Because if people don't know that they have consumed a particular GMO product, pnwmom Oct 2014 #174

The researches can use the same methods they use for e-coli. ZombieHorde Oct 2014 #224

The funny thing about that argument is that they're not asking for labels for all seed technologies. HuckleB Oct 2014 #227

That is a good point. nt ZombieHorde Oct 2014 #230

Knowing the brand won't tell them whether it is a GMO product or not. n/t pnwmom Oct 2014 #244

Why wouldn't it? ZombieHorde Oct 2014 #245

Bill Nye, what a guy madokie Oct 2014 #3

Cool, he's my kind of Science Guy.. a smart one. Almost Cha Oct 2014 #5

I'm still blown away by what Tyson said madokie Oct 2014 #14

Well, I haven't really known that much about Bill Nye but now I love him due to his common sense Cha Oct 2014 #18

K&R B Calm Oct 2014 #12

And then there's the health risk. RiverLover Oct 2014 #22

Not sure GMO farming always uses less pesticide. freedom fighter jh Oct 2014 #23

In most cases it does, when it you actually look at the science. HuckleB Oct 2014 #89

What's your source? freedom fighter jh Oct 2014 #187

You are right that I should have done better with a source. freedom fighter jh Oct 2014 #191

That study has been solidly debunked several times. HuckleB Oct 2014 #203

There are lots of others that haven't been eridani Oct 2014 #257

What this reminds me of is the fact... ReRe Oct 2014 #25

Thank you, Mr. Science! LawDeeDah Oct 2014 #29

excellent video - NOT anti-GMO - but a call for disclosure and testing case by case Douglas Carpenter Oct 2014 #30

I don't see that we're 'fine'. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Oct 2014 #32

+1000 Tumbulu Oct 2014 #129

We will never be 100% certain of anything, no matter how much it's studied. randome Oct 2014 #207

I wouldn't say it should be assumed so Erich Bloodaxe BSN Oct 2014 #213

great video G_j Oct 2014 #34

Sounds like he is taking a cautious attitude but not freaking out about it. liberal_at_heart Oct 2014 #37

Yes, and that is where I stand. hifiguy Oct 2014 #42

"Peer Reviewed!!1" scream the authoritarians whatchamacallit Oct 2014 #44

Actually, unscientific is not understanding how peer review fucking works. NuclearDem Oct 2014 #49

Uh huh whatchamacallit Oct 2014 #55

And yet again, there you go. NuclearDem Oct 2014 #63

Supercilious, belligerent, reactionary, reductionist... whatchamacallit Oct 2014 #70

Don't let your mind open so far it falls out. NuclearDem Oct 2014 #72

Since it seems this conversation is taking a slight turn for the better whatchamacallit Oct 2014 #83

Crop Scientists Say Biotechnology Seed Companies Are Thwarting Research Luminous Animal Oct 2014 #60

^^This!^^ BrotherIvan Oct 2014 #85

Yes, so true. It boggles the mind! Tumbulu Oct 2014 #134

But we're all so ignorant, the truth must be kept from us! BrotherIvan Oct 2014 #159

And then you repeat this old news? HuckleB Oct 2014 #88

Yes. I do. You do not, Pro GMO's say this is 30 years of settled science. A blatant lie. Luminous Animal Oct 2014 #100

"A blatant lie." HuckleB Oct 2014 #107

Only if you ignored who controls that science. As did the lead industry. As did coal industry. Luminous Animal Oct 2014 #116

So you can't support your assertions. Thus, you make baseless claims about "control." HuckleB Oct 2014 #135

So true, and they are not to be trusted. Tumbulu Oct 2014 #165

The same authoritarian corporatist assholes hifiguy Oct 2014 #64

Really? HuckleB Oct 2014 #91

That is all I ask, label food products correctly. Rex Oct 2014 #46

If GMOs are so beneficial, why not advertise them or, at least, label them? K&R Tierra_y_Libertad Oct 2014 #50

Bill Nye stole from Professor Proton! progressoid Oct 2014 #62

Note that he is talking about environmental effects as opposed to consumption. alarimer Oct 2014 #67

Science that is controlled by Monsanto, et.al. Luminous Animal Oct 2014 #74

Even then there were hundreds of independently funded studies. HuckleB Oct 2014 #79

And Monsanto controlled the publication. That was their terms for allowing the scientist access to Luminous Animal Oct 2014 #81

You seem to have some things you want to believe badly. HuckleB Oct 2014 #87

Careful there Bill. pa28 Oct 2014 #73

Please let me just step in here and comment.. because I'm not talking to Cha Oct 2014 #76

If GMO's were good for us, they would WANT them to be labelled. grahamhgreen Oct 2014 #75

You and I both know the more batshit labeling advocates NuclearDem Oct 2014 #78

No one who wants to label dangerous food products is crazy, IMHO. grahamhgreen Oct 2014 #178

Like we need labels to remind us what's not harmful? alp227 Oct 2014 #124

Anything that's "new and improved" is marketed as such, the fact they want to hide it, tells you its grahamhgreen Oct 2014 #179

I think they oppose labelling because it creates a possibly unnecessary stigma to the product. phleshdef Oct 2014 #167

If it was actually better, there would be no stigma. grahamhgreen Oct 2014 #180

Which is why the GOP is an insignificant force in politics today. randome Oct 2014 #210

Scientific literacy is on the side of those who want labels. Jim Beard Oct 2014 #218

I figure some GMO foods are harmless while others are questionable. phleshdef Oct 2014 #248

i think you're confusing him with gary scinece unblock Oct 2014 #77

Excellent. Thanks for posting k/r nationalize the fed Oct 2014 #103

I think they work for the "web washing firms". Jim Beard Oct 2014 #236

Excellent Bill Nye! He pretty much sums up what the Union of Concerned Scientists Tumbulu Oct 2014 #138

UCS is losing credibility, and impacts are being studied, and always have been. HuckleB Oct 2014 #151

Oh there you go- pick on the Union of Concerned Scientists Tumbulu Oct 2014 #155

You tried to use them in a classic logical fallacy. HuckleB Oct 2014 #157

They have been a clear voice for the non bought off scientists in the US, Tumbulu Oct 2014 #158

That's some cool, but baseless, propaganda you got there. HuckleB Oct 2014 #161

Mahalo, Tumbulu.. I did not know about Union of Concerned Scientists.. Cha Oct 2014 #251

Oh Mahalo Cha Tumbulu Oct 2014 #252

Aloha and Mahalo to you, Tumbulu! Cha Oct 2014 #256

ASYMMETRY OF MISINFORMATION: From Krugman To GMOs HuckleB Oct 2014 #156

Thanks for the video, always enjoy Bill Nye. I'm in favor of labeling, but the question at the end freshwest Oct 2014 #184

Bookmarking! B Calm Oct 2014 #199

How would labels prevent pollen from being blown about? randome Oct 2014 #206

Try crossing soybeans, peas or beans with the wind. Wheat is also very Jim Beard Oct 2014 #217

I'm no holier-than-thou, "if-everyone-did-what-I-do" character but... randome Oct 2014 #221

The issue isn't whether or not GMO is healthy to eat, it is what GMOs do to the ecosystem. MH1 Oct 2014 #238

About 30 years ago, when the corporate giants were in full takeover mode mountain grammy Oct 2014 #211

To the science lovers avove all else. Didn't science create the atomic bomb? Jim Beard Oct 2014 #216

Very true. randome Oct 2014 #223

Yes, genetic modification is equivalent to the atomic bomb. NuclearDem Oct 2014 #237

Guess what? A few years ago I unscientifically switched my car insurance from State Farm to Allstate eridani Oct 2014 #258

So, where are all the Monsanto apologists? <crickets> n/t eridani Oct 2014 #262