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MADem

(135,425 posts)

72. The SOFA gives USA the prosecutorial high ground; that doesn't mean that personnel are not

Fri Oct 17, 2014, 12:22 AM

Oct 2014

prosecuted, and that does not mean that civil "retribution" payouts in the custom of the region are not made; it simply means that any prosecution would be done by US personnel in a military setting.

The SOFA as written for Iraq provided immunity to servicemembers and state department contractors; no immunity, but the usual state department coordination, for other contractor personnel.

Iraq wanted these individuals to fall under Iraqi law regardless of the criminal accusation; we just don't do that. Never have. We have SOFA agreements in every nation where we "permanently" base personnel--some more restrictive than others, based on the sophistication of the criminal justice system in those nations, pretty much.

Most people believe that Bush wanted to make that Green Zone monstrosity a permanent, massive middle-eastern base. Iraqi refusal to accede to a SOFA obviated that plan. Just as well.

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Leon Panetta is a scary, scary man [View all] MannyGoldstein Oct 2014 OP

Leon is trying to sell a book madokie Oct 2014 #1

I almost wonder if he's *trying* to hurt Democratic turnout MannyGoldstein Oct 2014 #4

It sure seems that way madokie Oct 2014 #7

He was in the House. CA 16th District, south of SF, agricultural area, mostly. MADem Oct 2014 #24

Mybad, sorry madokie Oct 2014 #26

He's had so many roles in DC it's easy to conflate--he's done well for a House member. MADem Oct 2014 #27

Not only got away with it madokie Oct 2014 #31

I always thought Dick was DRUNK. Shootin' while drinkin' is what I'm-a thinkin'!!!! MADem Oct 2014 #33

Well that too madokie Oct 2014 #35

Hell, if it were me, I'd probably STILL be in jail for the crime!!!! MADem Oct 2014 #36

During this tour, he has said Hillary will make a strong President. merrily Oct 2014 #29

The timing of this book tour strongly supports your thought. After election day merrily Oct 2014 #54

of course he is DonCoquixote Oct 2014 #63

Oh, he's trying to do more than sell a book. He's got big plans for another post in 2016. 2banon Oct 2014 #19

He's too old. He'll be 78 in 2016. I doubt this very much. nt MADem Oct 2014 #25

How old is Kissinger? Sure, he has no cabinet position, but he is still influential. merrily Oct 2014 #30

I was responding to a suggestion that he was seeking another "post" two years from now. MADem Oct 2014 #34

I was responding to the same point, as modified by your age comment. merrily Oct 2014 #37

Yes, the word post "can" mean that, but when the year 2016 is added in, the inference is that the MADem Oct 2014 #40

Um, no, no and no. merrily Oct 2014 #44

I was speaking with someone else, and you interjected yourself into the conversation to challenge me MADem Oct 2014 #71

I have already responded to that. See my prior post on the subject. merrily Oct 2014 #74

Yes, so you have. nt MADem Oct 2014 #76

Decades of bloodletting Autumn Oct 2014 #2

Decades. MannyGoldstein Oct 2014 #3

It would help if people would stop voting for politicians that do this shit. [n/t] Maedhros Oct 2014 #22

If a majority of people did that, yes, it would help. merrily Oct 2014 #32

I've been saying no wilsonbooks Oct 2014 #5

The Diane Rehm show is a small light in the MSM darkness... A real treasure riderinthestorm Oct 2014 #6

She personally went after Panetta MannyGoldstein Oct 2014 #9

What did she have to say when he was nominated, though? merrily Oct 2014 #38

One of my favorites. Best show on radio with best host. One can learn a lot by tuning in to her. kelliekat44 Oct 2014 #21

it's gonna require more than that stupidicus Oct 2014 #8

"The moral, political and economic violence of neoliberalism must be made visible..." woo me with science Oct 2014 #14

Washington DC Is Addicted To War Liberal_Dog Oct 2014 #10

Even most heroin addicts stop short of mass murder and hacking off limbs. merrily Oct 2014 #48

Panetta's probably right about decades of bloodshed agentS Oct 2014 #11

The Iraqis did not want to keep the SOFA. They would have been delighted to keep the troops. MADem Oct 2014 #28

The Iraqis refused to agree with Obama to keep the SOFA beyond Bush's withdrawal date. merrily Oct 2014 #42

The SOFA gives USA the prosecutorial high ground; that doesn't mean that personnel are not MADem Oct 2014 #72

Put another way, the SOFA required Iraq-or any nation--to give up the inherent sovereign right of merrily Oct 2014 #73

Generally speaking, they are reciprocal to some extent. MADem Oct 2014 #75

Leon is doing all of this for the Clintons. He's their boy through and through. Zen Democrat Oct 2014 #12

Yes, he is. bigwillq Oct 2014 #13

Very consistent with most or all of Obama's nominees, though. merrily Oct 2014 #39

Turns out.... zentrum Oct 2014 #15

There were signs of that when he was nominated, though. Where were all the critics then? merrily Oct 2014 #43

Rachel Maddow called him out on her show on Monday night . . . markpkessinger Oct 2014 #16

This explains it pretty well: MannyGoldstein Oct 2014 #23

Please see Reply 38. merrily Oct 2014 #46

What does a post about Diane Rehm have to do with Rachel Maddow;s reporting on the issue? markpkessinger Oct 2014 #58

As Jon Stewart might say, you seem nice. merrily Oct 2014 #59

After reading some of your other posts in this thread . . . markpkessinger Oct 2014 #66

Qualifications Tweedy Oct 2014 #67

He's what we call a "shill" DefenseLawyer Oct 2014 #17

I don't agree with all that, but I do agree Obama should not have nominated him in the first place. merrily Oct 2014 #49

Sorry to continue with the same song, but the answer to the question of why rhett o rick Oct 2014 #64

If it is the same old song, you are singing to the choir. merrily Oct 2014 #65

The art of politics is the possible Tweedy Oct 2014 #68

The art of politics is the possible, but you settle for what is possible merrily Oct 2014 #69

Move on to achieve more Tweedy Oct 2014 #70

I apply the same standard to our government that I apply to individuals: MontyPow Oct 2014 #18

Then maybe fewer threats should be made, not more useless boots on the ground. merrily Oct 2014 #41

I don't follow. MontyPow Oct 2014 #51

Belief in danger is not a reason to put boots on the ground. merrily Oct 2014 #53

I am failing miserably at expressing myself. MontyPow Oct 2014 #60

Yes, I got that. You are not failing miserably. I am. I am making different points than you did. merrily Oct 2014 #61

It would seem we are on the same page after all. MontyPow Oct 2014 #62

I didn't like him before you didn't like him nt fadedrose Oct 2014 #20

Panetta is hawking his book, snake oil salesman style. democrank Oct 2014 #45

That is no surprise, but he is doing that on his own time and dime, not those of the taxpayer. merrily Oct 2014 #47

Lots of scary people out there. Saying no doesn't seem to matter, as another merrily Oct 2014 #50

Seems like he's been listening to Liz Warren Nye Bevan Oct 2014 #52

Or almost anyone in or out of DC who supports war and/or Obama. merrily Oct 2014 #55

Strange... I thought she was one of the few MannyGoldstein Oct 2014 #56

Leon Panetta, "Cut entitlements, not the military!" Enthusiast Oct 2014 #57