General Discussion

DirkGently

(12,151 posts)

124. We're saying a 17-yr-old has no agency.

Fri Oct 17, 2014, 10:23 AM

Oct 2014

And we may need that conceit to protect children, because we have to construct a line somewhere.

It is a little strange, though, to see people arguing that a crime based on a socially imposed lack of agency is exactly the same as a sexual assault on child or an adult who has not given consent.

We are saying, "Your consent cannot be counted, because you lack the capacity to fully understand what that means."

Maybe that's valid in this case. But it is a different circumstance from a child with no capacity or an adult being assaulted against their will.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

216 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Teen Who Bragged About Threesome With Teachers Feels Really Bad [View all] NaturalHigh Oct 2014 OP

Don't fuck your students. Problem solved. Throd Oct 2014 #1

That was my philosophy when I was a teacher. NaturalHigh Oct 2014 #3

Better yet, don't rape them REP Oct 2014 #32

Yup. Not that hard to figure out. Adrahil Oct 2014 #43

Really. Good god. The kid didn't ruin their lives -- they did it to Nay Oct 2014 #49

no, actually it is the government that is doing it to them hfojvt Oct 2014 #126

Do only self-righteous people think it's wrong... NaturalHigh Oct 2014 #138

students? hfojvt Oct 2014 #159

i agree with you samsingh Oct 2014 #160

Would you feel the same way if the teachers were male and the student female? yellowcanine Oct 2014 #170

My guess is that the majority here would not. NaturalHigh Oct 2014 #171

probably not hfojvt Oct 2014 #180

So if a 15 year old girl had a big hairy crush on a male teacher it's ok for him to act on it? yellowcanine Oct 2014 #181

That's kind of the point I've been trying to push. NaturalHigh Oct 2014 #183

okay? hfojvt Oct 2014 #184

But to get this straight, you're okay with a 15 yr old having sex with a 32 yr old. F4lconF16 Oct 2014 #192

Yup. eom. In_The_Wind Oct 2014 #101

This child was victimized by predators Cali_Democrat Oct 2014 #2

Post removed Post removed Oct 2014 #4

OK...and what if the genders were reversed? davidn3600 Oct 2014 #13

I think everyone knows the answer to that. NaturalHigh Oct 2014 #89

It was rape. Starry Messenger Oct 2014 #21

Yep. I hope someday the kid grows up to recognize this. Luminous Animal Oct 2014 #29

This story makes me furious. Starry Messenger Oct 2014 #34

I'm glad I'm not the only one who is furious about this. Luminous Animal Oct 2014 #38

How is your comment not hidden MattBaggins Oct 2014 #25

It was! nt Logical Oct 2014 #35

It was. Sheldon Cooper Oct 2014 #47

I feel bad for him yeoman6987 Oct 2014 #7

It effected the lives of two young rapists MattBaggins Oct 2014 #24

Your side note is unreadable yeoman6987 Oct 2014 #41

yes, let's not let anyone express a different opinion samsingh Oct 2014 #161

So the rape victim shouldn't BRAG first of all? Really? nt alp227 Oct 2014 #84

He was 17, I believe, at the time cali Oct 2014 #9

He was 16 at the time. Jenoch Oct 2014 #16

Your link says the age of consent is 16 in 30 states, plus DC muriel_volestrangler Oct 2014 #110

Authority figures shouldn't fuck their subordinates. It's ethically questionable at best. LeftyMom Oct 2014 #31

+1000 Starry Messenger Oct 2014 #36

+2000 nomorenomore08 Oct 2014 #59

I made that clear in my post. cali Oct 2014 #79

theoretically I can see that hfojvt Oct 2014 #135

The problem is that consent in those situations is basically impossible to verify. LeftyMom Oct 2014 #141

Um...maybe you've heard... NaturalHigh Oct 2014 #147

I'm reporting you hfojvt Oct 2014 #185

I've been benched anyway. NaturalHigh Oct 2014 #186

uhm, maybe we are not a team? hfojvt Oct 2014 #152

And here I really thought F4lconF16 Oct 2014 #197

well you can blame that on my math degree hfojvt Oct 2014 #199

Are you suggesting there be no statutory rape laws? yellowcanine Oct 2014 #174

actually a "minor" often can hfojvt Oct 2014 #182

Yours is the ethical point upon which this discussion should properly turn. hifiguy Oct 2014 #164

That reminded me of that movie "Summer of '42." It was a beautiful evocation of a kid CTyankee Oct 2014 #168

Now you're just talking about stuff that was way before my time. NaturalHigh Oct 2014 #172

Not in either one. in "Summer of '42" she and the kid's famiiy were on the Vineyard CTyankee Oct 2014 #187

How is it that all these teachers are humping students? Blue_Tires Oct 2014 #5

ANSWER: Internet Dating Stallion Oct 2014 #11

I guess that's my problem Blue_Tires Oct 2014 #12

I just think we find out about it now get the red out Oct 2014 #111

When I was a teacher... NaturalHigh Oct 2014 #112

Kiss and Tell. Downwinder Oct 2014 #6

What a disgusting post MattBaggins Oct 2014 #26

Yeah, and it probably won't happen again any time soon. RiffRandell Oct 2014 #33

I don't even know what you're trying to say. NaturalHigh Oct 2014 #88

I feel for the kid. Hopefully, he will realize that what happened was wrong. badtoworse Oct 2014 #8

r/nottheonion AngryAmish Oct 2014 #10

Some of the reponses surprise me scarystuffyo Oct 2014 #14

Gotta agree and thank you Kber Oct 2014 #18

You are right. bigwillq Oct 2014 #19

+ 1 TexasMommaWithAHat Oct 2014 #22

This post would be perfect for handing out bans. MattBaggins Oct 2014 #28

I'm just trying to understand the comments and I can't. scarystuffyo Oct 2014 #39

Never read a Julian Assange or Roman Polanski thread on this board. msanthrope Oct 2014 #91

The Roman Polanski threads are the worst. NaturalHigh Oct 2014 #92

Assange defender threads have the added taint of CIA conspiracy lunacy, msanthrope Oct 2014 #95

I guess I mostly stayed out of those. NaturalHigh Oct 2014 #96

Yep d_r Oct 2014 #30

Notice who the responses are coming from. Men you wouldn't mind Luminous Animal Oct 2014 #40

Stems from the idea of Lancero Oct 2014 #81

"Whether it was consensual or not"? alp227 Oct 2014 #85

Whether it's PC to say so or not Erich Bloodaxe BSN Oct 2014 #106

That is undoubtedly true. NaturalHigh Oct 2014 #108

Correct. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Oct 2014 #109

Your common sense in this discussion is highly admirable. hifiguy Oct 2014 #165

The teachers should never be allowed in a school again. FLPanhandle Oct 2014 #15

Three lives ruined bigwillq Oct 2014 #17

Absolutely! get the red out Oct 2014 #113

I wonder that too. NaturalHigh Oct 2014 #114

If a 16 year old girl was raped by a 32 year old man, DUers would be calling for his execution. chrisa Oct 2014 #20

+ 1000 nt Logical Oct 2014 #27

Because there are way too many people here and elsewhere Seeking Serenity Oct 2014 #42

I'm sorry.....but you got it fucking backwards, amigo. AverageJoe90 Oct 2014 #55

Except. . . ProfessorGAC Oct 2014 #99

"Losing their jobs and having to cop a plea will be punishment enough." Which I agree with. nt AverageJoe90 Oct 2014 #189

And that would be an entirely appropriate and rational punishment. hifiguy Oct 2014 #201

Just so I'm clear... NaturalHigh Oct 2014 #100

In all honesty..... AverageJoe90 Oct 2014 #190

I understand. NaturalHigh Oct 2014 #191

Actually he was resentenced to 10 years mythology Oct 2014 #216

One men, let alone two. LisaL Oct 2014 #205

There would LITERALLY be calls for castration. NaturalHigh Oct 2014 #210

Yes, if two male teachers were accused of having sex with a 16 year old female student, I doubt LisaL Oct 2014 #213

Next question..... whistler162 Oct 2014 #23

That is what I am wondering... Lady Freedom Returns Oct 2014 #51

I hate it when teachers rape their students. (nt) Nye Bevan Oct 2014 #37

Saying those teachers "raped" that consenting kid does a disservice to the word. Comrade Grumpy Oct 2014 #44

Thankfully your neanderthal views are going the way of the Dodo MattBaggins Oct 2014 #45

Post removed Post removed Oct 2014 #54

As is typical with some of the more ancient views of rape MattBaggins Oct 2014 #56

If it were two random women this boy had had sex with, I might concede you the point. nomorenomore08 Oct 2014 #63

Rape is rape. No nuance. Period. alp227 Oct 2014 #86

Um, as a criminal defense attorney, I will tell you that you are utterly and completely msanthrope Oct 2014 #93

The definition of "consent" is different, though, right? DirkGently Oct 2014 #107

Your focus is incorrect...intent is irrelevant in a strict liability msanthrope Oct 2014 #117

"Consent," as I said. Not intent. That is the difference. DirkGently Oct 2014 #120

Of course the definitions of consent are different...you are talking different classes msanthrope Oct 2014 #125

No. The difference in "consent" is an actual legal distinction. DirkGently Oct 2014 #130

The "bad act" is exactly the same. Put your genitals where they don't msanthrope Oct 2014 #133

It's not an argument. It's a definition. DirkGently Oct 2014 #136

I'm always stymied by people who seem to understand the concept of msanthrope Oct 2014 #140

We don't equate selling beer to minors with rape. DirkGently Oct 2014 #146

I'd say that's good advice. NaturalHigh Oct 2014 #149

Post removed Post removed Oct 2014 #150

Do you have a substantive response to the post? DirkGently Oct 2014 #151

I believe that rape is rape. JTFrog Oct 2014 #153

It's the law's definition, not mine. DirkGently Oct 2014 #157

I appreciate your posts JonLP24 Oct 2014 #158

Thank you. I worry when we can't discuss DirkGently Oct 2014 #175

Jury results. 0-7 LEAVE IT hifiguy Oct 2014 #162

Thanks, hifiguy and jurors. DirkGently Oct 2014 #167

"Ordinary rape?" Did you just actually write that? nt msanthrope Oct 2014 #163

I do not presume to speak for the poster hifiguy Oct 2014 #166

"Non-statutory" if you prefer. Real terms. Real meanings. DirkGently Oct 2014 #169

Dirk, I see where you are coming from on this. NaturalHigh Oct 2014 #173

And I am with you there. DirkGently Oct 2014 #176

That's the core issue here. hifiguy Oct 2014 #178

Exactly. Thank you. NaturalHigh Oct 2014 #200

It was rape. Period. The word fits perfectly. Seeking Serenity Oct 2014 #46

But it's a boy MattBaggins Oct 2014 #57

And so many actual misogynists are likely calling for these women's heads on a pike..... AverageJoe90 Oct 2014 #66

Suuuuuuurrrre MattBaggins Oct 2014 #67

I'm sorry, but I've seen too much of this stuff in action to think otherwise. AverageJoe90 Oct 2014 #68

Well this case isn't harming women MattBaggins Oct 2014 #69

I'll just wait for the evidence. AverageJoe90 Oct 2014 #74

Force? MattBaggins Oct 2014 #76

He didn't have to be forced. Iggo Oct 2014 #103

Free money dude. n/t JTFrog Oct 2014 #98

Right? cyberswede Oct 2014 #122

Maybe someday he will feel better about it all. Major Hogwash Oct 2014 #48

It doesn't matter if he didn't feel raped gollygee Oct 2014 #50

I have a feeling CG doesn't understand that concept MattBaggins Oct 2014 #58

Statutory rape is rape... TDale313 Oct 2014 #52

Children can't consent. Starry Messenger Oct 2014 #60

Very hard it would seem MattBaggins Oct 2014 #70

The guy was seventeen, not twelve......nt AverageJoe90 Oct 2014 #75

17=legally a child. Starry Messenger Oct 2014 #104

17 is the age of consent. He was 16. Had he been a few months older, it would have been legal. ieoeja Oct 2014 #132

I wonder if there is a law Jenoch Oct 2014 #134

Two *male* teachers where I went to high school married students they impregnated. ieoeja Oct 2014 #137

At my high school Jenoch Oct 2014 #139

Maybe nobody cared in the past... NaturalHigh Oct 2014 #143

I know a few DUers who meet your description. Your problem is ... ieoeja Oct 2014 #145

Okie dokie... NaturalHigh Oct 2014 #148

No, I don't think you can. JTFrog Oct 2014 #154

No, I still see them. Often in fact. NaturalHigh Oct 2014 #155

This message was self-deleted by its author JTFrog Oct 2014 #156

It isn't legal for teachers to rape minor students. Starry Messenger Oct 2014 #194

It's not legal for anyone to rape anyone. ieoeja Oct 2014 #195

Decades=this happened a long long time ago. Starry Messenger Oct 2014 #196

Oklahoma has a similar law. NaturalHigh Oct 2014 #198

And there doesn't seem to be any evidence that he was coerced, either, from what I could tell. AverageJoe90 Oct 2014 #72

Bingo LittleBlue Oct 2014 #77

I see... one is 'legitimate rape' and other isn't? LanternWaste Oct 2014 #97

Statutory rape is rape. Gormy Cuss Oct 2014 #144

There are young female students who get crushes on male teachers. yellowcanine Oct 2014 #177

Sad situation all around. AverageJoe90 Oct 2014 #53

Why would MRA types smack you down for spewing their crap? MattBaggins Oct 2014 #62

"Why would MRA types smack you down for spewing their crap?" You can't be serious. AverageJoe90 Oct 2014 #64

The judge in Montana broke the law in making that sentence and a different judge was appointed davidn3600 Oct 2014 #80

I seriously doubt they will do ANY time. NaturalHigh Oct 2014 #94

He would not be the first to sympathize with his abusers Bad Thoughts Oct 2014 #61

Thank you for pointing this out MattBaggins Oct 2014 #65

Anyone who blames this child better look long and hard Hosnon Oct 2014 #71

Well.....in my honest opinion.....this kid did nothing wrong. At all. nt AverageJoe90 Oct 2014 #73

Who is claiming otherwise? Jenoch Oct 2014 #119

I didn't say otherwise, though. Not sure why you thought I was accusing somebody. nt AverageJoe90 Oct 2014 #188

I have no idea why you made a point Jenoch Oct 2014 #193

"The reporting on this would be completely different"... NaturalHigh Oct 2014 #121

The arguments in this thread seem to be about psychology. ZombieHorde Oct 2014 #78

Not a psychologist, but this is a prime example of Stockholm Syndrome. Lancero Oct 2014 #82

Rape victims too often blame themselves. I hope he gets the help he needs Maru Kitteh Oct 2014 #83

Yeah, I was kind of thinking that about the grandpa too. NaturalHigh Oct 2014 #90

Survivors of sexual abuse chervilant Oct 2014 #87

I find the general "take" on this topic in this thread bizarre. DirkGently Oct 2014 #102

Not one but TWO adult women preyed upon a 16 year old BOY. That is rape. See how easy it is? KittyWampus Oct 2014 #116

Well, no. It is not legally or literally the same as rape. DirkGently Oct 2014 #118

I personally think... NaturalHigh Oct 2014 #123

That is a valid, but separate point. DirkGently Oct 2014 #127

Thank you! FiveGoodMen Oct 2014 #142

Rape is rape. JTFrog Oct 2014 #105

5-2 leave. cherokeeprogressive Oct 2014 #202

That got an alert? NaturalHigh Oct 2014 #203

I was surprised as well. Here are the alerter's comments... cherokeeprogressive Oct 2014 #208

I would have voted to leave as well. NaturalHigh Oct 2014 #209

I don't think anyone has the right to tell this kid how he should feel. randome Oct 2014 #115

We're saying a 17-yr-old has no agency. DirkGently Oct 2014 #124

For the most part, I agree. But the line is drawn and the teachers need to suffer the consequences. randome Oct 2014 #129

Question is severity of the crime. Are these teachers "exactly the same" DirkGently Oct 2014 #131

This is an excellent point, sir. hifiguy Oct 2014 #179

As a gay man, when I was 13, I was popping boners at just anything - closeupready Oct 2014 #128

Message auto-removed Name removed Oct 2014 #207

OMG. Teenage boy bragged? LisaL Oct 2014 #204

I would think that was pretty predictable. NaturalHigh Oct 2014 #206

So much laughable, puritanical piety in these comments. True Blue Door Oct 2014 #211

That doesn't change the fact... NaturalHigh Oct 2014 #212

That's reasonable. True Blue Door Oct 2014 #214

Well, another thing that concerns me... NaturalHigh Oct 2014 #215