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In reply to the discussion: Abraham Lincoln WTF? [View all]Starry Messenger
(32,381 posts)53. Marx on Lincoln
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1862/11/23.htm
At the time Lincoln was elected (1860) there was no civil war, nor was the question of Negro emancipation on the order of the day. The Republican Party, then quite independent of the Abolitionist Party, aimed its 1860 electoral campaign solely at protesting against the extension of slavery into the Territories, but, at the same time, it proclaimed non-interference with the institution in the states where it already existed legally. If Lincoln had had Emancipation of the Slaves as his motto at that time, there can be no doubt that he would have been defeated. Any such slogan was vigorously rejected.
But also this:
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1862/10/12.htm
Other people claim to be fighting for an idea, when it is for them a matter of square feet of land. Lincoln, even when he is motivated by, an idea, talks about square feet. He sings the bravura aria of his part hesitatively, reluctantly and unwillingly, as though apologising for being compelled by circumstances to act the lion. The most redoubtable decrees which will always remain remarkable historical documents-flung by him at the enemy all look like, and are intended to look like, routine summonses sent by a lawyer to the lawyer of the opposing party, legal chicaneries, involved, hidebound actiones juris. His latest proclamation, which is drafted in the same style, the manifesto abolishing slavery, is the most important document in American history since the establishment of the Union, tantamount to the tearing tip of the old American Constitution.
Nothing is simpler than to show that Lincolns principal political actions contain much that is aesthetically. repulsive, logically inadequate, farcical in form and politically, contradictory, as is done by, the English Pindars of slavery, The Times, The Saturday Review and tutti quanti. But Lincolns place in the history of the United States and of mankind will, nevertheless, be next to that of Washington! Nowadays, when the insignificant struts about melodramatically on this side of the Atlantic, is it of no significance at all that the significant is clothed in everyday dress in the new world?
Lincoln is not the product of a popular revolution. This plebeian, who worked his way tip from stone-breaker to Senator in Illinois, without intellectual brilliance, without a particularly outstanding character, without exceptional importance-an average person of good will, was placed at the top by the interplay of the forces of universal suffrage unaware of the great issues at stake. The new world has never achieved a greater triumph than by this demonstration that, given its political and social organisation, ordinary people of good will can accomplish feats which only heroes could accomplish in the old world!
Hegel once observed that comedy is in act superior to tragedy and humourous reasoning superior to grandiloquent reasoning.[Lectures on Aesthetics] Although Lincoln does not possess the grandiloquence of historical action, as an average man of the people he has its humour. When does he issue the proclamation declaring that from January 1, 1863, slavery in the Confederacy shall be abolished? At the very moment when the Confederacy as an independent state decided on peace negotiations- at its Richmond Congress. At the very, moment when the slave-owners of the border states believed that the invasion of Kentucky by the armies of the South had made the peculiar institution just as safe as was their domination over their compatriot, President Abraham Lincoln in Washington.
At the time Lincoln was elected (1860) there was no civil war, nor was the question of Negro emancipation on the order of the day. The Republican Party, then quite independent of the Abolitionist Party, aimed its 1860 electoral campaign solely at protesting against the extension of slavery into the Territories, but, at the same time, it proclaimed non-interference with the institution in the states where it already existed legally. If Lincoln had had Emancipation of the Slaves as his motto at that time, there can be no doubt that he would have been defeated. Any such slogan was vigorously rejected.
But also this:
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1862/10/12.htm
Other people claim to be fighting for an idea, when it is for them a matter of square feet of land. Lincoln, even when he is motivated by, an idea, talks about square feet. He sings the bravura aria of his part hesitatively, reluctantly and unwillingly, as though apologising for being compelled by circumstances to act the lion. The most redoubtable decrees which will always remain remarkable historical documents-flung by him at the enemy all look like, and are intended to look like, routine summonses sent by a lawyer to the lawyer of the opposing party, legal chicaneries, involved, hidebound actiones juris. His latest proclamation, which is drafted in the same style, the manifesto abolishing slavery, is the most important document in American history since the establishment of the Union, tantamount to the tearing tip of the old American Constitution.
Nothing is simpler than to show that Lincolns principal political actions contain much that is aesthetically. repulsive, logically inadequate, farcical in form and politically, contradictory, as is done by, the English Pindars of slavery, The Times, The Saturday Review and tutti quanti. But Lincolns place in the history of the United States and of mankind will, nevertheless, be next to that of Washington! Nowadays, when the insignificant struts about melodramatically on this side of the Atlantic, is it of no significance at all that the significant is clothed in everyday dress in the new world?
Lincoln is not the product of a popular revolution. This plebeian, who worked his way tip from stone-breaker to Senator in Illinois, without intellectual brilliance, without a particularly outstanding character, without exceptional importance-an average person of good will, was placed at the top by the interplay of the forces of universal suffrage unaware of the great issues at stake. The new world has never achieved a greater triumph than by this demonstration that, given its political and social organisation, ordinary people of good will can accomplish feats which only heroes could accomplish in the old world!
Hegel once observed that comedy is in act superior to tragedy and humourous reasoning superior to grandiloquent reasoning.[Lectures on Aesthetics] Although Lincoln does not possess the grandiloquence of historical action, as an average man of the people he has its humour. When does he issue the proclamation declaring that from January 1, 1863, slavery in the Confederacy shall be abolished? At the very moment when the Confederacy as an independent state decided on peace negotiations- at its Richmond Congress. At the very, moment when the slave-owners of the border states believed that the invasion of Kentucky by the armies of the South had made the peculiar institution just as safe as was their domination over their compatriot, President Abraham Lincoln in Washington.
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Since They Are Not Hidden, Sir, Then On Your Showing There Is Nothing To Discuss
The Magistrate
Apr 2012
#31
You Can Call It A Double-Burger With Cheese, Sir, For All The Difference It Would Make To Me
The Magistrate
Apr 2012
#58
And Both 'Nothing' And 'Double Cheeseburger', Sir, Plug The Same Hole In Sentence Structure
The Magistrate
Apr 2012
#67
You seem to have difficulty following a logical argument (including, apparently, your own)...
regnaD kciN
Apr 2012
#85
They thought women voting was as likely as pigs flying, it was "accepted" that women gave up all
MADem
Apr 2012
#69
Exactly. I've known this since my American History classes in high school, if not before...
regnaD kciN
Apr 2012
#84
You're engaging in the sin of 'presentism,' i.e., judging the past by the
coalition_unwilling
Apr 2012
#98
It was so ingrained, it was not noticed, and something like the Lincoln quotes
treestar
Apr 2012
#125
How many of the vaguely educated persons you met consider "the complexities of his personal views"
rug
Apr 2012
#22
Lincoln's views on race, which are racist, are insignificant? Really insignificant?
rug
Apr 2012
#79
Moreover, it was absolutely necessary to make such remarks to be politically violable in that race.
pnorman
Apr 2012
#47
Same (O.P.) can be said of MADISON, LBJ (see thread on MADISON/his slaves by xchrom)
UTUSN
Apr 2012
#57
Why are you making this personal? The subject line and article is from another website
Tx4obama
Apr 2012
#10
actually at that time he only needed those from Southern Illinois as he was running for that Senate
dsc
Apr 2012
#28
I remember learning about this rhetoric when I was in High School and it really floored me.
aikoaiko
Apr 2012
#18
Yet he prosecuted a war that was, ultimately, about freeing black people
MannyGoldstein
Apr 2012
#19
Manny, the war became ultimately about freeing slaves (whether black or
coalition_unwilling
Apr 2012
#100
I want to explain why I rec'd this. It made for interesting replies people might want to read.
Gregorian
Apr 2012
#32
It's hard to belive that any one with a basic knowledge of Lincoln and his history
enough
Apr 2012
#35
This isn't really a surprise to me. A couple years ago I read a quote by Lincoln stating that he
Proles
Apr 2012
#40
If this was Lincoln's personal viewpoint, then why did the South fear him being elected?
Major Hogwash
Apr 2012
#46
Because, Major, the South Was Loaded With, And Led By, Raving Nutters....
The Magistrate
Apr 2012
#60
American history is really ugly; it's why most people prefer American "heritage"
Tom Ripley
Apr 2012
#48
This does not surprise me. He fought the war to stop the south from leaving the union. And
jwirr
Apr 2012
#50
Sure--he was dragged, kicking and screaming, to the place where he saw the point of emancipation.
MADem
Apr 2012
#61
Lincoln WAS NOT dragged, kicking and screaming, to emancipation. That is total and utter rubbish. He
coalition_unwilling
Apr 2012
#103
Oh please. Put the huff-n-puff away. I am talking about his evolution over DECADES.
MADem
Apr 2012
#104
When someone uses the phrase 'kicking and screaming,' the implication is
coalition_unwilling
Apr 2012
#106
And Jefferson had slaves and he SLEPT with them...I mean he really had SEX with them...and George
Rowdyboy
Apr 2012
#62
Very true.... I was unaware there was any controversy about that but thanks for the clarification..
Rowdyboy
Apr 2012
#90
Oh, please. That's engaging in pedantry and Jesuitical equivocation of the worst sort. The
coalition_unwilling
Apr 2012
#105
Yipes. I guess it comes down to what the phrase 'freeing the slaves' actually means, hence
coalition_unwilling
Apr 2012
#114
Seems a lot of folk are feeling superior for having read A People's History of the United States
sadbear
Apr 2012
#80
Therefore, he was actually the bad guy, and the South should have won.
2ndAmForComputers
Apr 2012
#81
Yep, well it's not my fault that folks aren't clicking on the OP link to see that's the title :) n/t
Tx4obama
Apr 2012
#101
Less interesting to me than why we don't talk about which of today's ruling-class families owe
HiPointDem
Apr 2012
#102
Emphatic K&R for the discussion! I had my eyes opened a couple years back
coalition_unwilling
Apr 2012
#116
I remember being taught this in highschool, in addition, his views did develop over the course of...
Humanist_Activist
Apr 2012
#118