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In reply to the discussion: Our founding fathers were not Christians. [View all]Major Nikon
(36,925 posts)31. You keep ignoring what I wrote and instead wish to debate what I didn't write
It just so happens I have the very book you mentioned (as well as a few others on the subject) and nowhere in it does Ron Chernow declare Washington's belief in Christianity. So you may want to actually do a better job of reading the book, you're saying I should read (assuming you have actually read it and aren't just digging stuff up on google). You might want to read again these parts...
Washington's personal pastor in Philadelphia said he wasn't a Christian. Jefferson said Washington wasn't a Christian. Washington never took communion. Washington almost never referred to Jesus Christ in any of his writings. Washington never affirmed the divinity of Christ in any of his writings. Washington never declared his religious beliefs despite being implored by the Christian establishment to do so. Washington never asked for a Christian minister on his deathbed.
All the facts you point out about what Washington did or didn't do have very little to do with what he actually believed. Washington rose to prominence within the English establishment before the revolution during a time when one had to belong to the Angelical church in order to advance. Washington's wife was also an extremely devout Christian. Those two things easily explain why Washington spent so much time in the Christian church. Affilliation with the Christian church does not make one a Christian.
So if you think Ron Chernow's excellent book ends the 200 yr old debate on what Washington's beliefs were, you must be reading something I haven't. I'm pretty sure Ron Chernow himself would not make any such claim.
I didn't claim Washington was a deist, or a Christian, or anything else no matter how many times you wish I did. I claimed he never identified himself as a Christian, and nothing you have offered makes that any less true. As I said before, if you want to contradict me, start with reading what I actually wrote.
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Yep, all logic and truth fails with fundies ... best to just write them off as prehistoric. n/t
RKP5637
Apr 2012
#2
Fundamentalism hadn't been invented when the forefathers signed the Constistuition.
kwassa
Apr 2012
#20
You keep ignoring what I wrote and instead wish to debate what I didn't write
Major Nikon
Apr 2012
#31
Many of the founding fathers were either deists or were very sympathetic to deism
Major Nikon
Apr 2012
#39
do you think the god he wanted her to believe in was something other than the christian god?
HiPointDem
Apr 2012
#41
all your "guesses" are predictated on your own faith, and must be taken on faith.
HiPointDem
Apr 2012
#44
I think that's an overreaction. Maybe I was trying to be too clever in phrasing, but all I meant
HiPointDem
Apr 2012
#50
in private letters Jefferson refers to himself as "Christian" (1803),[2] "a sect by myself" (1819),
HiPointDem
Apr 2012
#42
what's the usual meaning of the word? in my world, "christian" refers to anyone from the fundie
HiPointDem
Apr 2012
#46
But the faith of the fathers is irrelevant. What's relevant is their faith in separation of church
HiPointDem
Apr 2012
#49
It's not irrelevant - it is one of the lies they use in their campaign to establish a religion.
eomer
Apr 2012
#52
It's not worth debunking when it's an unwinnable pissing match that distracts from publicizing
HiPointDem
Apr 2012
#61
I think it is worthwhile to point this out to people who claim that Jefferson was a Christian...
eomer
Apr 2012
#68
You are defining a Christian as a follower of Christ. In that sense, many deists would be
JDPriestly
Apr 2012
#64
Jefferson, Washington, Franklin, Thomas Paine, Monroe, Madison, Adams, Hamilton.... any questions?
underpants
Apr 2012
#57
Five founders who were skeptical of organized Christianity and couldn't be elected today!
yortsed snacilbuper
Apr 2012
#5
actually, there is, it's called the God Nodule and it's a specific cerebral locus.
nebenaube
Apr 2012
#59
The prohibition against murder and theft is not unique to the Christian and Jewish religions.
JDPriestly
Apr 2012
#65
Well the Bill of Rights/parts of constitution were borrowed from Iroquois confederacy - not
Kashkakat v.2.0
Apr 2012
#7
It's both from common law but influenced by the Iroquois form of government as
JDPriestly
Apr 2012
#18
Yep, it's just a lost cause. Also, "if" they had divine knowledge with a capital T, many of
RKP5637
Apr 2012
#16
And even if they were they were not in favor of having an official national church. They were for
jwirr
Apr 2012
#23
Yes, they were Christians, but the problem with this argument from Fundies is....
Moonwalk
Apr 2012
#27
Jefferson and Adams did not believe in the divinity of Christ. Read their correspondence.
JDPriestly
Apr 2012
#67