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Lee-Lee

(6,324 posts)

169. Any religion like Islam or similar is NOT compatible with liberalism

Sat Oct 18, 2014, 04:53 PM

Oct 2014

The teachings of Islam about women, as followed to different degrees in differing areas, are simply not compatable with progressivism.

In all but a tiny, extremely progressive segment women are treated as second class citizens, forced to wear restricive covering clothing- this practive alone makes Islam oppressive to women, an inherently patriarchal system, and as such incomparable with liberalism and progressivism.

Believing that doesn't make me Isamophobic, it just means I won't turn a blind eye to a system that treats women poorly and won't be quiet about it.

True, there are exceptions. But as a percentage they are small enough and limited to western nations almost exclusively, so they are the outlier and not the majority.

I won't even go into the far worse treatment of women in many areas for a large segment of the followers of the religion.

I don't hate followers of Islam. I do hate how the majority of women in the religion are treated, most with no choice to be able to leave. And anyone considering themselves a liberal or progressive should too.

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Islamophoia is not a liberal value [View all] Prophet 451 Oct 2014 OP

This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Oct 2014 #1

*bitter cynical chuckle* Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #2

I largely agree with you- not about the ignore list. I don't do ignore lists cali Oct 2014 #3

No, you seem able to have a constructive dialogue Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #5

well, I've always referred to that concept as "confirmation bias" cali Oct 2014 #22

I'm aware of confirmation bias Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #29

As I said, I think it's far more complex that simply "the law stops them" cali Oct 2014 #58

I think we're just going to have to disagree on the law part Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #67

That's a well-reasoned post. Blue_In_AK Oct 2014 #78

Thank you, sir n/t Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #92

Ma'am. :) Blue_In_AK Oct 2014 #97

Sorry. Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #99

Such a joke GummyBearz Oct 2014 #91

I listed modern Christian terrorists in my OP Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #101

So? GummyBearz Oct 2014 #119

"Christian terrorists seem to be a little nicer than islamic state terrorists" Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #122

I think you're missing how both fundamentalisms are intertwined. CJCRANE Oct 2014 #6

How could I be missing it when cali Oct 2014 #19

Where have we seen an increase in Islamic fundamentalism? CJCRANE Oct 2014 #27

Really ? Rhinodawg Oct 2014 #59

really? Link it. cali Oct 2014 #61

On brief look .... Rhinodawg Oct 2014 #64

Tell us did you watch Face the Nation on Sunday? azurnoir Oct 2014 #103

that isn't remotely like anything I've ever said, dear. cali Oct 2014 #137

it's the same logic as "we're not against Black people, just their massive criminal element" MisterP Oct 2014 #4

Pretty much n/t Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #7

"I don't hate gay people, I hate homosexuality." Another fun one from this mindset Scootaloo Oct 2014 #8

And we�re even getting a lot of that in this thread. �I�m not saying [certain group] is bad, I�m Chathamization Oct 2014 #112

No, it isn't. RedCappedBandit Oct 2014 #114

Do you think there is a difference between ZombieHorde Oct 2014 #154

Problem is they actually follow their holy book snooper2 Oct 2014 #9

I listed modern Christian terrorists in my OP Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #12

percentages matter snooper2 Oct 2014 #16

Only when you're trying to justify a prejudice Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #18

So would you, then. Dreamer Tatum Oct 2014 #28

this is such a tired and simplistic line. cali Oct 2014 #25

I would call equating a heavily armed ruthless group that has actually Dreamer Tatum Oct 2014 #34

not really, people that really follow their holy books would be assholes snooper2 Oct 2014 #37

Equal opportunity disdain is fine Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #43

I know, cut and paste adds some comedic value :) snooper2 Oct 2014 #49

You say "they" like you mean all. Maybe you mean some follow their holy book. Percentages are import rhett o rick Oct 2014 #33

See post 37 for clarification snooper2 Oct 2014 #39

Post 37 provides zip. You said that the "Problem is they actually follow their holy book" rhett o rick Oct 2014 #53

The phelps actually follow their holy book snooper2 Oct 2014 #57

Your ignore list contains much more than people...it includes entire concepts. Dreamer Tatum Oct 2014 #10

In the West, muslims are a MINORITY, and liberals traditionally protect closeupready Oct 2014 #11

Nnnnnno. Don't agree with you there, I'm afraid. sibelian Oct 2014 #21

No, it's not mainly because "prejudice is illogical". Liberals have traditionally relied on cali Oct 2014 #30

That moral basis RELIES on the fact that prejudice is illogical. sibelian Oct 2014 #56

Know your history. The idea of civil rights is itself a liberal idea. closeupready Oct 2014 #41

Certainly there is always propensity for the mainstream to dominate sibelian Oct 2014 #62

That'd be cool if liberals controlled the govment. We are currently ignoring major portions of the rhett o rick Oct 2014 #38

As a liberal, one should do what one can. Change starts with YOU. closeupready Oct 2014 #45

I like your avatar but I'll never look at meatballs the same. rhett o rick Oct 2014 #69

Then think of them as Rocky Mountain Oysters! closeupready Oct 2014 #79

You're not helping. nm rhett o rick Oct 2014 #130

I don't think the point is that they are different. sibelian Oct 2014 #13

Not to some Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #14

Are you allowed to link links? sibelian Oct 2014 #70

I'm honestly not sure Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #75

Give or take a hundred massacred women and children Dreamer Tatum Oct 2014 #15

Oh, never mind all that. sibelian Oct 2014 #24

Blowing folks to bits is so much more civilized. GeorgeGist Oct 2014 #106

Ooooga booga Rhinodawg Oct 2014 #132

Bad guys trying to bomb bad guys and missing. sibelian Oct 2014 #156

Adding "phobia" to the end of the word Islam does not make it immune from analysis or criticism. Throd Oct 2014 #17

Homophobes say exactly the same n/t Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #20

Nice try. Throd Oct 2014 #23

Ah, you're on the "Islam is different because it just is" train Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #26

No I'm not. Throd Oct 2014 #32

Probably because he/she accidentally watched 3 seconds of the 700 Club Dreamer Tatum Oct 2014 #48

Islam *is* different from homosexuality muriel_volestrangler Oct 2014 #150

Islam is a set of beliefs. Race and sexual orientation are a matter of nature. PeaceNikki Oct 2014 #151

I reserve the right to cali Oct 2014 #36

Like this poster did... Rhinodawg Oct 2014 #74

I understand that Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #120

yeah, but when I criticize aspects of a given religion, I do not feel compelled cali Oct 2014 #135

There, we disagree Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #141

That sounds tedious. Throd Oct 2014 #145

Religion is a choice, sexual orientation not. nt alp227 Oct 2014 #63

. sibelian Oct 2014 #73

Two things Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #123

Religion is a choice Marrah_G Oct 2014 #104

Fundy Christians don't think so Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #121

The Problem Hari Seldon Oct 2014 #31

Greatest quote ever, thank you. get the red out Oct 2014 #46

I couldn't agree more that getting off fossil fuels would solve a ton of our problems. Marr Oct 2014 #51

Well said. nm rhett o rick Oct 2014 #68

That's a bit simplistic muriel_volestrangler Oct 2014 #152

Message auto-removed Name removed Oct 2014 #35

We don't demean Christians on the basis of being Christian Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #40

What a guy. Happy to "take a shot" at deniers of rights. Dreamer Tatum Oct 2014 #44

I guess you weren't on DU earlier in the year. Lobo27 Oct 2014 #89

If I was around, I missed it Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #95

Neither is defending oppressive authoritarians. Marr Oct 2014 #42

I wish a few psychologists would study why it's so hard for the Left to say what you said. Dreamer Tatum Oct 2014 #47

Definitely. I think I understand where they're coming from, but still. Marr Oct 2014 #66

It always befuddles me how the Left, which prides itself on nuanced thought Dreamer Tatum Oct 2014 #71

George Bush get the red out Oct 2014 #84

There was radical Islam before Bush. nt Dreamer Tatum Oct 2014 #86

Most definitely! get the red out Oct 2014 #87

I can see that. nt Dreamer Tatum Oct 2014 #88

I'm definitely one of his ignorees leftynyc Oct 2014 #76

Welcome to the club. Dreamer Tatum Oct 2014 #81

I'll wear it as a badge of honor leftynyc Oct 2014 #83

I think what ends up happening is this. Lobo27 Oct 2014 #90

The easier access to power is an accident of history Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #50

Yes, our entire government and our election process is an accident of history. Dreamer Tatum Oct 2014 #55

I don't disagree with you-- but here we are. Marr Oct 2014 #60

What to do? Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #72

Certainly. Marr Oct 2014 #138

Yes, forgot about that Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #140

I think they are all equally disgusting Skittles Oct 2014 #52

Equal opportunity disdain is fair n/t Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #54

K&R liberal_at_heart Oct 2014 #65

Man is the only animal to have found the One True God....several of them. Mark Twain Tierra_y_Libertad Oct 2014 #77

K&R. YoungDemCA Oct 2014 #80

Post removed Post removed Oct 2014 #82

Glad you would be in favor of disenfranchising most of America's population... YoungDemCA Oct 2014 #94

Well, you know....Prop 8 ProudToBeBlueInRhody Oct 2014 #117

Exactly The Green Manalishi Oct 2014 #127

Two things Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #96

I am glad you have something that works for you, be it meds or faith. The Green Manalishi Oct 2014 #125

One could say the same of all gun owners Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #129

that is a different argument, and a good point. The Green Manalishi Oct 2014 #136

" insane, vile, hateful and hurtful paradigm" Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #139

Atheism isn't taken seriously because people with invisible sky friends need cognitive dissonance The Green Manalishi Oct 2014 #142

Glad to know I have company n/t Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #146

Nah, just take away the tax exempt status. ProudToBeBlueInRhody Oct 2014 #107

Yes, I'd go for that Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #109

The word fundamentalism does not sadoldgirl Oct 2014 #85

Hmm, yes. That's a good distinction Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #98

Pardon me, but I went to Quaker schools and Quaker meeting when I was younger Crunchy Frog Oct 2014 #155

If I'm wrong, I welcome correction Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #157

Not any Quakers that I've ever met, and I've met LOTS. Crunchy Frog Oct 2014 #161

How quickly things like Sabra and Shatila, the Bosnia Genocide, the LRA, the IRA, etc. get forgotten Chathamization Oct 2014 #93

Eloquently put Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #113

Most Americans never even HEARD the word "Muslim" prior to 9/11... Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2014 #100

"Otherising" Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #116

Religion has done that from the beginning.... Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2014 #144

Not all religions Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #158

No kidding. Presbyterian was good at helping the poor and Quaker is still anti-war. Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2014 #164

Let's cut the crap. MicaelS Oct 2014 #102

so what conclusion should we be drawing from your post? azurnoir Oct 2014 #105

That I think the ME / Islamic World is one really fucked up place. MicaelS Oct 2014 #111

You say "cut the crap" but your post is full of it Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #108

Equality for women and gays is a liberal value OKNancy Oct 2014 #110

Something of a generalisation Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #115

I think it's problematic saying that Western culture is better than African culture or Asian culture Chathamization Oct 2014 #149

Islam, Judaism and Christianity ... All peas in the same pod Trajan Oct 2014 #118

~No, equal disdain is fine Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #126

Islamaphobia is a Christian Dominionist trapping. Watch your step. The Dominionists are Nazis. blkmusclmachine Oct 2014 #124

We have 2000 years of Christian history to back up the fact that Christians can be just as violent. hrmjustin Oct 2014 #128

That's something I agree with entirely Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #131

People say many things, but it is only their actions others can use to define them. Bluenorthwest Oct 2014 #133

That's not what I said Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #134

No, it is what I said. I speak for myself. No one is tilting at you. Bluenorthwest Oct 2014 #143

I missed Feral Child Oct 2014 #147

No, equal disdain is fair Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #159

Your point is accurate. Feral Child Oct 2014 #167

I am firmly against any religion LostOne4Ever Oct 2014 #148

Define "persecute" Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #160

I would define it as LostOne4Ever Oct 2014 #168

What Ben Affleck missed in the Islamophobia debate PeaceNikki Oct 2014 #153

This is so interesting you should post it separately. Rhinodawg Oct 2014 #165

I view Muslims in the same way I view Christians. Neoma Oct 2014 #162

That's fair Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #163

The prevelance of repulsively right-wing opinions in Islam is currently unique. Donald Ian Rankin Oct 2014 #166

Any religion like Islam or similar is NOT compatible with liberalism Lee-Lee Oct 2014 #169

Authoritarianism is ALWAYS bad, whether it is religious or otherwise. alarimer Oct 2014 #170