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In reply to the discussion: WAIT! So FDP Officer Wilson, whos ILLEGALLY refusing to make a report for fear of being incriminated [View all]Savannahmann
(3,891 posts)190. I'm truly astonished.
I can only assume you're part of the brotherhood of the badge. Or you're someone who doesn't want to believe your friend, brother, husband, son, wife, daughter, or mother is doing all the horrible things that are posted about cops on so many websites. You want to believe the fiction of the thin blue lie.
Some people are all upset that Brown got killed by a cop. Why shouldn't people be more upset about a dead six year old? Why should I care any more about Mike Brown, who I think assaulted a cop and a store manager, that I do about Angel?
So what is the difference? The case of Angel will remain open, perhaps forever, but there is a fair chance that the person who murdered that little girl will be judged by a jury. There is little chance that Michael Brown's killer will ever be judged by a jury. There is even less chance that the multiple offenses committed by the police daily will ever see the inside of the courtroom, except to punish those victims of the crime.
You see, that is a part of the difference. Let's say someone random on the street bashes me in the noggin and steals my wallet. I go to the hospital, get some stitches, presuming I live, make phone calls to everyone under the sun to shut down credit cards etc. I file a police report, and I then go about trying to put things back together. It takes a day or so to get things started. Perhaps another day in the hospital while my concussion is taken care of. Expensive sure, but I have insurance so that takes care of some of it.
Now, let's say I am brutalized by the police who pummel me while I am surrendering, or after I have handcuffs on. What happens then? It starts out the same, hospital to have my wounds acknowledged, if I'm lucky. Then I get to go to jail, and a courtroom, and then potentially years in prison, for assaulting an officer's hand with my head. Talk about adding insult to injury. Then my life is ruined. I can't get a decent job because I have a criminal record. I can't really rejoin society because nobody trusts an ex convict. When it's the word of a cop versus the word of a citizen, the jury made up of folks like you who figure I must have done something to deserve it, I'm going to jail. Simple as that.
So how often to the police use excessive or unnecessary force? Half the time. HALF. When the police started wearing cameras, the use of force dropped by more than fifty percent. That proves that statically speaking (accurately extrapolated unlike the tongue in cheek response above) half of the people who are beaten, tasered, pepper sprayed, or shot should not have been.
A robbery is bad, a beating is bad. But to pay for the beating for the rest of your life because a gang lied to cover up the crime, that is much worse wouldn't you agree?
What makes the scandal of the priests who abuse children so bad? Is it the abuse of the children that is the issue? Yes, partially. What makes it worse is that the person who did it was one you trusted implicitly. This is a servant of God who abused you. Then it gets worse, the church covers it up, moving the priest to another location, where the horrific act is repeated, in many cases several times. The priest is to blame, and the church is certainly to blame. They did not act to protect the innocent children, they acted to protect the church, and the offender. Unthinkable in my mind.
I said that the cops were a gang. They are. They tolerate no dissent, lie with impunity, protect each other against all of "us". They lie and cheat on the littlest thing. I mean, if they can't follow the rules on a traffic ticket, why should I believe them when they are offering testimony about something more important?
The police are career criminals. They lie, cheat, steal, and profit from it under the color of law.
The difference is that if I commit those crimes, and since I'm not in the brotherhood of the badge, I get caught, and go to jail. Even if I don't commit the crimes, the police can manufacture evidence and convince a jury full of folks like yourself who are happy to convict me satisfied that I must have done something to get arrested. Having the police abuse the citizens, commit those crimes under the color of law, and escape any penalty, is akin to having the Mafia as your neighborhood enforcers. Yeah, they'll make sure that anybody else who steals from you or assaults you get's punished, but the mafia themselves will never be held accountable for stealing or assaulting or even murdering you.
There is no excuse. None for the police to behave this way. There is no excuse as to why they are not held to the highest possible standard. There is no reason why we should not demand that the police be of the highest moral character, and held accountable for their actions. There is every reason why we should demand just that.
Some time ago, I suggested some reforms that were desperately needed by the police forces. I'll go ahead and highlight them here if you don't mind.
1) Mandatory polygraph testing of the police every six months. The officer must be able to pass this test in order to maintain employment and status as a police officer. The questions would be easy enough. Have you lied under oath in the last six months. Have you lied on a police report in the last six months. Have you used excessive force in the last six months. Have you failed to report anyone who has done any of those things in the last six months?
Less than a dozen questions, half an hour max. If they can't pass the polygraph, they're not arrested, nor are they charged with any crime. They just don't get to have the badge and gun. I'll even sweeten the pot. Let's say the cop is having a bad day, problems at home, whatever. He flunks the test. He's not even fired then. He's rescheduled for another test in two weeks. This way the officer can sort out whatever has him upset, and pass the test and return to work.
We polygraph people all the time, for security clearances in the Government as one example. If you have a top secret clearance, if you are trusted with that material, and you flunk the polygraph. You just aren't allowed back into the secure areas ever again. Why should the authority, the power of the police be treated any differently than the authority to examine top secret materials?
2) Charge the police who lie to protect the officers who are using excessive force. In the links above you'll find cases where an officer was charged for assaulting a citizen for no reason. In both cases the citizen was charged for assaulting an officer. In both cases, there were other cops around. You know and I know they all wrote reports, and signed those reports under penalty of perjury. When those lies are exposed, why aren't the cops charged with the crime of perjury, fired, and barred from ever working as a cop again?
If one is caught, usually on video, and is actually fired. Then all those who covered up for him should be punished too. The death of Angel is a tragic event. I certainly want the guilty to be tried and convicted according to the rules. Most importantly, I want the actual guilty, not a handy guy who the cops just came across to do the time for a crime he did not commit.
I still say your effort at distracting with the tragic death of a six year old girl was just that. An effort at distraction. To show that the cops aren't that bad. No, they aren't that bad. They're worse. The individual or individuals who murdered Angel might one day face justice as determined by a jury of their peers. The police who commit similar murders will face no justice what so ever. Instead, they will get a nice retirement paid for by you and me.
Oh, and justifying all the violence that the police commit unnecessarily as just too bad since most of the victims are criminals, that is just beyond the pale. The Russians have a word for that sort of thing. Nekulturny. Used in this context, it defines out a little different. It would translate to uncivilized barbarian, or barbaric. That almost goes far enough to express the disgust I felt when I read the assertion that it's just too bad since most of them are criminals. Nekulturny indeed.
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WAIT! So FDP Officer Wilson, whos ILLEGALLY refusing to make a report for fear of being incriminated [View all]
uponit7771
Oct 2014
OP
Well OK then he should be fired by that Government Police agency for not fulfilling his paid duties
gordianot
Oct 2014
#88
As someone who works for the federal government, he may/may not have such a right.
Liberal_Stalwart71
Oct 2014
#199
You're missing the OP's point. Sure, Wilson has a right to remain silent, as does anyone
KingCharlemagne
Oct 2014
#9
Do you think there will be a report on what Wilson had in his system? He WAS the shooter
sabrina 1
Oct 2014
#13
I suspect Wilson was hopped up on coke, meth or speed. See Joe McGinniss'
KingCharlemagne
Oct 2014
#27
So was Wilson tested after this shooting? If so, what were the results? If not, why not? As for
KingCharlemagne
Oct 2014
#171
Ah sorry about that. Yes, it was an amphetamine, a diet pill that I can't recall.
NaturalHigh
Oct 2014
#172
At the risk of utterly derailing this thread, but in the interest of balance, wanted to
KingCharlemagne
Oct 2014
#174
ive never heard of an officer involved in a shooting writing the police report.
Travis_0004
Oct 2014
#55
+1, the FPD tried to pawn it off to the SLPD but the SLPD didn't have anything to go on so...
uponit7771
Oct 2014
#194
Wait, was he charged with anything? I thought 5th amendment rights were only
Liberal_Stalwart71
Oct 2014
#200
Was he checked for drugs or alcohol? I would think that would be standard procedure after
sabrina 1
Oct 2014
#16
It's illegal... the FOIA request are being ignored at the LEAST his union boss doesn't control that
uponit7771
Oct 2014
#25
... no, FOIA laws... the FPD is trying to skirt them using the 5th only told to Wilson by his
uponit7771
Oct 2014
#35
FOIA and impeding an investigation, he doesn't get 5th because his STATED purpose on the job
uponit7771
Oct 2014
#50
... there COULD be no murder because Wilson followed all the rules of his job...
uponit7771
Oct 2014
#63
Isn't pleading the 5th in THIS situation an already forced error? I followed the rules = I go
uponit7771
Oct 2014
#85
If cops just start filing blank reports after killing people,is that not impeding the investigation?
bravenak
Oct 2014
#53
... this is NOT a case of a normal citizen taken some normal actions and then crap happens...
uponit7771
Oct 2014
#81
exactly, IE the FOIA infractions at the least... at the MOST he should be standing in the way
uponit7771
Oct 2014
#49
And does the Federal FOIA allow access to police documents from an active investigation?
hack89
Oct 2014
#101
It's a federal case NOW... anything the feds ask for can be gotten under FOIA... it's common and the
uponit7771
Oct 2014
#105
FOIA is not a criminal statute, and there are no criminal penalties for non-compliance.
branford
Oct 2014
#107
And there will always be people right here on DU siding with these armed cops/wanna-be cops who kill
Liberal_Stalwart71
Oct 2014
#211
Report was empty... nathin...that's why the FOIA laws are going to USSC regarding this case.
uponit7771
Oct 2014
#28
Excuse me. Words that we don't even KNOW come from him have more credibility than eyewitnesses.
bravenak
Oct 2014
#18
There is likely a great deal of forensic evidence and witness testimony which we know nothing about.
branford
Oct 2014
#71
Same old garbage, no? They will defend these killer cops to the nth degree until one day
sabrina 1
Oct 2014
#26
I asked that very same question about the officer's toxicology report yesterday.
bravenak
Oct 2014
#32
That would make sense, don't know how many people were LESS risk adverse jacked during a game
uponit7771
Oct 2014
#40
Good that others are asking. I had not seen anyone ask about the cop's state of mind. People
sabrina 1
Oct 2014
#80
HELP!!! what is in the report that says Brown WASNT 20 feet or 25 feet away when the last shots
randys1
Oct 2014
#39
... the "filed" report is empty... look for FOIA to go to USSC regarding the incident report because
uponit7771
Oct 2014
#30
A police report is supposed to be written as soon as possible after the event. So if Wilson did not
sabrina 1
Oct 2014
#67
Who said he robbed a store? Are you referring to the video that was released
sabrina 1
Oct 2014
#173
Hard to answer that when you provide no information as to where it came from, eg.
sabrina 1
Oct 2014
#256
What does that have to do with anything? The protesters were not looters, if that is what you
sabrina 1
Oct 2014
#263
Even if every word you say is true, and of course we don't know that, it STILL does not justify the
sabrina 1
Oct 2014
#230
THE COP IS DISCREDITED!!! What about his discredit be default is NOT understood?! He's REFUSING
uponit7771
Oct 2014
#191
Also, so are shooting slike this in the WHITE community, only racist wingers front the black
uponit7771
Oct 2014
#192
IMO they sent their paid trolls here yesterday to test the waters and to see if liberals wil buy it.
notadmblnd
Oct 2014
#33
Thank you. I've said for years that the percentage of racists on the left is just aout the same as
Solomon
Oct 2014
#175
Yellow Journalism "gun gone off" HOW!?!??! Just .. pulled it's own trigger?!?!
uponit7771
Oct 2014
#82
In regards to the report which just claims the "gun went off" I don't see how Brown FORCED Wilson
uponit7771
Oct 2014
#91
EXACTLY!!! The running away and being shot at is the crime people are focusing on Brown in the
uponit7771
Oct 2014
#98
Care to be specific? Otherwise, why yes, you are wrong. "The young man" was guilty
KingCharlemagne
Oct 2014
#144
Yeap, pathologist has already said one of the wounds in the arm is consistant with shot from the
uponit7771
Oct 2014
#195
Muddy the waters? It seems pretty clear to me. A teenager encounters over walking
sabrina 1
Oct 2014
#241
I can speak of 2 white people that live in Ferguson (in-laws) which gives me some insight.
gordianot
Oct 2014
#102
Dude, sorry to break it to you, but there are *very* few people here who even *halfway* support.....
AverageJoe90
Oct 2014
#100
Few would be like.. maybe 4? nah.... I see at LEAST 20 given ear to Wilsons KKK supported ass...
uponit7771
Oct 2014
#106
"by some progressives that I have witnessed here", I'm sorry, but that's fuckin' bullshit, amigo.
AverageJoe90
Oct 2014
#112
Wolves in Sheep's Clothing? I can give you an example right now, if need be:
AverageJoe90
Oct 2014
#119
Discussionist brought a lot of rightwingers to DU. It has reached the point where they ...
ieoeja
Oct 2014
#116
They were unreasonable at best relative to what the site started as... now that there are more winge
uponit7771
Oct 2014
#198
More to the point, his boss, Ferguson Police Chief Thomas Jackson, said Wilson
KingCharlemagne
Oct 2014
#148
FOIA and impeding an investigation, he doesn't get 5th because his STATED purpose on the job
uponit7771
Oct 2014
#201
FOIA and impeding an investigation, he doesn't get the benefit of the 5th because he...
uponit7771
Oct 2014
#203
I'm talking about the FOIA request for the report that is blank... so there IS a filing... Wilson
uponit7771
Oct 2014
#220
Strawman noted, no one is saying he IS compelled just that he did so and has NOT come forth...
uponit7771
Oct 2014
#252
"it "wasn't the compulsion to file part... again,... strawman noted. Either way, he's not filing
uponit7771
Oct 2014
#260
Now, you should very easily be able to cite the law that you're claiming exists
Travelman
Oct 2014
#233
Yeah, he's giving verbal accounts after being fully apprised of the evidence...
MaggieD
Oct 2014
#153
This is false, when a FOIA request is filed for said report the report is given PERIOD ... it's agai
uponit7771
Oct 2014
#204
Wilson's prior ingestion of meth or speed would explain the subsequent shooting. Oh, wait, Wilson
KingCharlemagne
Oct 2014
#145
BINGO!!! The rest of the "leak" is irrelevant... Wilson should be charge for attempting to shoot
uponit7771
Oct 2014
#205
The incident report, he never filled one out.. FOIA request and the Fed investigation that is callin
uponit7771
Oct 2014
#207
I'm reading this shit, too, and I'm thinking I'm on Drudge or Stormfront. Not on DU.
Liberal_Stalwart71
Oct 2014
#196
Yeap, people are OUTRIGHT believing a guy who's saying by actions.. that he's NOT going to fill a
uponit7771
Oct 2014
#215
From the autopsy reports, it is also now clear that he shot at Brown while Brown
Liberal_Stalwart71
Oct 2014
#219
You can also hear them say "the kid did nothing wrong". Remember that?
Liberal_Stalwart71
Oct 2014
#240
WHOA!!!! Man that is BIG!! Bottom line how are they even thinking about a guy who's REFUSING
uponit7771
Oct 2014
#218
Check that, if Wilson SUSPECTED he did something wrong then of course he'd hide
uponit7771
Oct 2014
#244
False, the FOAI already release the SLPD report and it's empty... these guys are assholes why
uponit7771
Oct 2014
#246
Link, I don't see ANY redacted report of Wilsons account since he's the one on the original SLPD...
uponit7771
Oct 2014
#257
The actions after Brown ran away are the reason for the protest etc... no actions after Brown
uponit7771
Oct 2014
#247
Not from what the witness's said, since Wilson is hiding the truth the he has NOT AN OUNCE of ...
uponit7771
Oct 2014
#253