General Discussion

Eleanors38

(18,318 posts)

70. "Start shaming them." It's been going on for years.

Sat Oct 25, 2014, 08:44 AM

Oct 2014

Even here on DU. Shame doesn't work well, unless you are spoiling for a losing fight. The biggest problem with the gun-control "movement" is that it isn't one.

Serious efforts to lessen mass shooting begin with good science, not the propagandizing numbers crap posted in GD the other day. If people were serious, SERIOUS about mass shootings, they would recognize there has not been ONE mass shooting since Sandyhook (4+ killed not counting shooter). Instead, it's move the goal post, conflate, re-define the categories, and resume the Same Talk of shame and prohibition with the Same results. If we recognized the true fall-off in mass shootings, then we might actually discuss safety measures taken since Sandyhook to see what works. That should be basic.

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Are we ever going to get tired enough of school shootings that we actually do something about them? [View all] dsc Oct 2014 OP

No- our politicians are cowards, quaking at the feet of the NRA Marrah_G Oct 2014 #1

Please allow me to add....' A HERETIC I AM Oct 2014 #9

land of the free, home of the brave.... Marrah_G Oct 2014 #11

Home of the used to be A HERETIC I AM Oct 2014 #17

yup Marrah_G Oct 2014 #19

I love my country, but it embarrasses the shit out of me these days. n/t A HERETIC I AM Oct 2014 #20

Sadly, sounds about right. nt Erich Bloodaxe BSN Oct 2014 #37

We'll try, but the NRA will stop us. shenmue Oct 2014 #2

This is the 87th shooting spartan61 Oct 2014 #3

Well, you do understand part of the problem. ManiacJoe Oct 2014 #25

Nah...they would rather turn the schools for the "poor kids" into prison camps VanillaRhapsody Oct 2014 #4

Or at least send the little monsters to private schools Jackpine Radical Oct 2014 #178

the poor ones already refuse to allow their angels to ride the school buses with the VanillaRhapsody Oct 2014 #179

What should be done to reduce the numbers of school shootings? Jenoch Oct 2014 #5

In my opinion, ZombieHorde Oct 2014 #7

I think a national UBC law could help, Jenoch Oct 2014 #8

The news here said he was given the gun for his last birthday. Hard to lock up a gift you gave your lunasun Oct 2014 #48

My son has several guns he's got for gifts....all locked up. ileus Oct 2014 #78

tribes DustyJoe Oct 2014 #80

But that's largely irrelevant mythology Oct 2014 #128

UBC law? I'm not familiar with that term. NaturalHigh Oct 2014 #63

Universal Background Check Jenoch Oct 2014 #66

Ah, got it. Thank you. NaturalHigh Oct 2014 #67

we don't need any more science dsc Oct 2014 #10

That is a pretty dark view point, in my opinion. ZombieHorde Oct 2014 #14

Unless your theory is that our children are somehow worse than those of every single solitary dsc Oct 2014 #16

Canada has lots of guns, but they have very few mass shootings in comparison to the US. ZombieHorde Oct 2014 #21

they don't have anything like the gun laws we do dsc Oct 2014 #23

Sure, but do you really think laws like that would have stopped any school shootings in the US? ZombieHorde Oct 2014 #29

yes I do dsc Oct 2014 #38

Small correcton sarisataka Oct 2014 #50

The guns are a symptom, as opposed to the disease. ZombieHorde Oct 2014 #58

Granting that, do you think laws can significantly reduce the number of guns out there? Recursion Oct 2014 #223

The 'our culture' that is producing these children Erich Bloodaxe BSN Oct 2014 #40

His father gave him a gun for his birthday.not sure if it was registered or not but registering lunasun Oct 2014 #54

There is no gun registration in WA state. ManiacJoe Oct 2014 #194

It's not just guns though. ZombieHorde Oct 2014 #59

I agree that it's not JUST the guns laundry_queen Oct 2014 #90

Then we have very similliar views on this subject. ZombieHorde Oct 2014 #119

Your post has LOTS of sensible ideas and observations, laundry_queen. calimary Oct 2014 #186

Thank you calimary laundry_queen Oct 2014 #195

Yeah, no kidding. calimary Oct 2014 #201

There is no right to shoot anyone. NutmegYankee Oct 2014 #202

Indeed. But let's look at that statement from the viewpoint of the assholes who've used calimary Oct 2014 #204

I agree with everything you wrote laundry_queen Oct 2014 #203

You're right, I wouldn't want you as president. branford Oct 2014 #205

Fuck the Second Amendment Ampersand Unicode Oct 2014 #214

So glad you will NEVER have the chance to shred the BoR. GGJohn Oct 2014 #216

Do you have any idea how your 'ideas' would damage the U.S. economy? Jenoch Oct 2014 #218

So, someone kills your meat for you, right? You hire it out, rather than get your hands dirty? X_Digger Oct 2014 #222

You Would Be Suprised At What You Can Own.. ozone82 Oct 2014 #76

A Canadian can own a semi-automatc rifle. Jenoch Oct 2014 #143

Those gun laws have cut our gun murder rate in half in the last few decades hack89 Oct 2014 #26

No better medicine combined with an older population has been almost wholly responsible for that dsc Oct 2014 #39

So what laws do you want? Nt hack89 Oct 2014 #46

an outright ban on dsc Oct 2014 #69

None of which is going to happen. GGJohn Oct 2014 #72

when I was a kid, for that matter a young adult dsc Oct 2014 #99

Not even comparable. GGJohn Oct 2014 #101

The first two will never happen hack89 Oct 2014 #79

Without doubt etherealtruth Oct 2014 #96

In many cases retroactive enforcement is the only option. NutmegYankee Oct 2014 #132

To the NRA & gun makers, this is free product promotion. lastlib Oct 2014 #6

i think people are just supposed to be happy that it wasn't ISIS or Ebola that kills them JI7 Oct 2014 #12

Ebola Ebola Ebola malaise Oct 2014 #13

Sadly no, not until the NRA is denounced as a terrorist organization and banned from existence. InAbLuEsTaTe Oct 2014 #15

Which ain't never going to happen because tha NRA isn't a terrorist organization. GGJohn Oct 2014 #73

No, just a right wing "nut job" group etherealtruth Oct 2014 #97

True, but that doesn't make it a terrorist organization. GGJohn Oct 2014 #102

Sure it does. The NRA promotes the use of unsafe firearms that are used to commit terrorist acts. That makes it a terrorist organization. InAbLuEsTaTe Oct 2014 #209

Huh? branford Oct 2014 #210

So you think AR-15's, for example, that can deliver multiple shots per sec using clips w/ dozens of rounds is a safe weapon protected under the 1st Amendmt? InAbLuEsTaTe Oct 2014 #213

1st Amendment? GGJohn Oct 2014 #217

What utter bull pucky Duckhunter935 Oct 2014 #226

Huh, again? branford Oct 2014 #230

Balderdash!!!!! GGJohn Oct 2014 #212

We told Congress and they just ignored us. Rex Oct 2014 #18

Precisely. 99Forever Oct 2014 #22

Exactly. Jamastiene Oct 2014 #228

Nothing will get done as long as there is an NRA. Cleita Oct 2014 #24

And I am sure the RW would love to do the same for planned parenthood and the ACLU hack89 Oct 2014 #27

No. That's up to the lawyers and politicians to figure out. Cleita Oct 2014 #31

It is not going to be done by trampling over the first amendment hack89 Oct 2014 #32

Fuck that and the second Ammendment excuses. Cleita Oct 2014 #35

Have you read the Democratic Party platform? hack89 Oct 2014 #43

And a crackdown on the NRA, whatever it takes, to defang them. n/t Cleita Oct 2014 #49

How? What law can you write that won't be used against liberal groups? hack89 Oct 2014 #51

I'm not a lawyer. It's up to our politicians to figure it out and it's up to us Cleita Oct 2014 #53

Half those politicians are republican hack89 Oct 2014 #56

So you want to trample on the 1st Amendment because of your hatred of the NRA? GGJohn Oct 2014 #74

The first Ammendment is about freedom of speech not freedom to kill. Cleita Oct 2014 #83

And you would be violating the NRA's freedom of speech. GGJohn Oct 2014 #84

I can't answer your question because I'm not the right wing. Cleita Oct 2014 #86

Nice attempt at a smear, too bad it failed. GGJohn Oct 2014 #87

So by your logic subversive organizations like ISIS and Al Queda have Cleita Oct 2014 #93

You're comparing the NRA to Al Queda and ISIL? GGJohn Oct 2014 #94

Good. You are a waste of time. eom Cleita Oct 2014 #95

I'm not the one wanting to curb a civil right just because I don't like the message. GGJohn Oct 2014 #100

This isn't about message. It's about actions that undermine Cleita Oct 2014 #106

No, this is about your wanting to shut down an organization that you disagree with. GGJohn Oct 2014 #109

the difference is that the NRA is vastly more effective at killing Americans dsc Oct 2014 #136

Who has the NRA killed? GGJohn Oct 2014 #137

The NRA has killed the spirit and resolve of gun control proponents and politicians. branford Oct 2014 #145

In fairness a better analogy is to the tobacco companies dsc Oct 2014 #153

But that's not true. GGJohn Oct 2014 #158

in comparison to smokers I would bet at most 1 in 10 of the deaths dsc Oct 2014 #161

With you, Cleita! calimary Oct 2014 #141

You realize you are calling for censorship and oppression by the Government? NutmegYankee Oct 2014 #148

very true Duckhunter935 Oct 2014 #152

And I hope you've been making that point to the NRA, too. calimary Oct 2014 #163

Wow, that was the biggest fail post I've read in a while. NutmegYankee Oct 2014 #166

A lot of people believe in free speech, except when they don't agree . . . nt branford Oct 2014 #169

The relatively easy fix to most of these shootings ManiacJoe Oct 2014 #28

Uh-huh... I'll bet the mother of that kid who blew away all those children at Sandy Hook calimary Oct 2014 #142

You should probably brush up on your facts. ManiacJoe Oct 2014 #144

Yep. I'm sure they stored all those nice harmless guns properly and safely calimary Oct 2014 #155

You really need to take a deep breath and think about what you are trying to say. ManiacJoe Oct 2014 #168

what hyperbole, I really think you believe it Duckhunter935 Oct 2014 #157

OH, I see, it was a "legal semi-automatic rifle that were AWB compliant." calimary Oct 2014 #167

Now you are beginning to understand. ManiacJoe Oct 2014 #170

Wrong. I already understood that. calimary Oct 2014 #173

You have used the word 'restrictions'. Jenoch Oct 2014 #175

What should be done depends on your goals. ManiacJoe Oct 2014 #193

you are correct Duckhunter935 Oct 2014 #180

No, the real problem there is that the AWB didn't do what its supporters think it did Recursion Oct 2014 #221

Start shaming the NRA's footmen in congress LuvLoogie Oct 2014 #30

We also need to frame it differently. Dumbed-down so more of the low-information voters can start calimary Oct 2014 #41

"Start shaming them." It's been going on for years. Eleanors38 Oct 2014 #70

School shooting. Shooting that happens in a school. School. Shooting. kcr Oct 2014 #81

I think we know. Gun-apologists. They'll seek ANY rationale to keep and get more damn guns. calimary Oct 2014 #126

Whose "moving goalposts?" The banners, clearly. Eleanors38 Oct 2014 #207

It depresses me that even here on DU there are all these gun nuts Arugula Latte Oct 2014 #45

+1 Hoyt Oct 2014 #131

I hear ya, Arugula Latte. calimary Oct 2014 #183

I'm asking you this with respect, GGJohn Oct 2014 #184

Harry Reid knows no shame. He really wants to be Senate majority leader. Nt hack89 Oct 2014 #52

Only in America world wide wally Oct 2014 #33

I do not think so, because guns are everything but killing machines and when they do kill.. Tikki Oct 2014 #34

The true answer ... No. Just no. Kablooie Oct 2014 #36

Just a thought, we are not tops with suicides Beringia Oct 2014 #42

No. You don't want to hurt the feewings of the gun fetishists! Arugula Latte Oct 2014 #44

No. n/t Crunchy Frog Oct 2014 #47

Isis! Ebola! booooga woooga! jberryhill Oct 2014 #55

No, you're not. Nothing will change. Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #57

No! peace13 Oct 2014 #60

well here is one suggestion posted on my high school graduating classes Facebook page Douglas Carpenter Oct 2014 #61

that would be a horrible idea dsc Oct 2014 #211

I would say so too. Douglas Carpenter Oct 2014 #224

In my state after we had 20 young children and 6 staff murdered scarystuffyo Oct 2014 #62

A high price to pay to get sensible legislation... marions ghost Oct 2014 #115

CT scarystuffyo Oct 2014 #134

It wasn't universal registration though NutmegYankee Oct 2014 #146

CT had an AWB before Sandy Hook nt hack89 Oct 2014 #225

I agree with what you are saying davidpdx Oct 2014 #64

Actually do something? You mean more than bitch on the internet? LOL, no. Don't be stupid. flvegan Oct 2014 #65

Federal government is good at some things, bad at others. Federal government can be slow, liberal_at_heart Oct 2014 #68

Not even the lead story any more... JCMach1 Oct 2014 #71

Vast swaths of our country value guns more than children. geek tragedy Oct 2014 #75

This is a sad but very true answer to the question... Tikki Oct 2014 #85

Not as long as we take a passive approach to security. ileus Oct 2014 #77

Yes, We, the People Are Beyond Tired fredamae Oct 2014 #82

No. Takket Oct 2014 #88

Message auto-removed Name removed Oct 2014 #89

Why weren't there school shootings when guns were more available? former9thward Oct 2014 #91

Children, even in High School, feared reprisal from their parents if they were caught messing... Tikki Oct 2014 #103

There is much truth to your post. former9thward Oct 2014 #107

Yes...but guns tag along with this part of Society's downgrade. Tikki Oct 2014 #111

Truly. These people parading around openly wearing their massacre machines are public menaces. calimary Oct 2014 #127

How do you propose to stop open carry where it's legal? GGJohn Oct 2014 #129

I'd be working to reverse that and make it ILLEGAL. calimary Oct 2014 #140

You won't get any flaming from me. GGJohn Oct 2014 #147

Try proper concealed carry Duckhunter935 Oct 2014 #159

True, and I live in one of those states that have hot, dry summers, average temp-110 GGJohn Oct 2014 #164

Well, that opens a great can of worms. LWolf Oct 2014 #92

Nope. nt cwydro Oct 2014 #98

Not until a close family member of Lint Head Oct 2014 #104

There is no solution to prevent a lone nut with a gun. Too many guns and too easy to obtain. nt Logical Oct 2014 #105

+1 Cleita Oct 2014 #108

Sadly, other people's children do not trump arthritisR_US Oct 2014 #110

Now they are also claiming 1st Ammen. rights like Cleita Oct 2014 #112

Who is doing that? GGJohn Oct 2014 #113

... Cleita Oct 2014 #116

Except I'm not, but you knew that. GGJohn Oct 2014 #117

Your words speak for themselves and you aren't the only person who says it. Cleita Oct 2014 #118

The NRA is terrorizing politicians? GGJohn Oct 2014 #120

Wow, the lengths they go in service to arthritisR_US Oct 2014 #114

Make a law if your gun is used in a shooting mandatory 5 years jail marlakay Oct 2014 #121

Very sensible law. GGJohn Oct 2014 #122

Let all the people out who went to jail for pot marlakay Oct 2014 #123

We need more logical thinkers like you. GGJohn Oct 2014 #124

This message was self-deleted by its author GGJohn Oct 2014 #125

There is nothing we can do. Banning guns will never happen LittleBlue Oct 2014 #130

And, even if by some stroke of a miracle, the 2A was repealed, GGJohn Oct 2014 #135

Exactly! LittleBlue Oct 2014 #156

It wouldn't even do that-- the right would be protected by the 9th, federally. ;) n/t X_Digger Oct 2014 #208

Ban all Guns!!! n/t PowerToThePeople Oct 2014 #133

Easier said than done, GGJohn Oct 2014 #138

How? nt branford Oct 2014 #139

Starting with the cops. Dr. Strange Oct 2014 #150

Lets hear your plan Duckhunter935 Oct 2014 #160

Never. Ever. hifiguy Oct 2014 #149

Back in the 1970s you didn't hear about school shootings FrodosPet Oct 2014 #151

it is more because we didn't have cheap assault weapons and semi automatic rifles dsc Oct 2014 #154

Yeah, we did. GGJohn Oct 2014 #162

there is a difference between guns being around and guns being cheap dsc Oct 2014 #165

Those semi autos back then were cheaper to buy than today relative to the level of wages. GGJohn Oct 2014 #171

The mid to late 70's is considered the second most violent period for school shootings hack89 Oct 2014 #174

I always carried a knife to school, as did most people I knew FrodosPet Oct 2014 #185

Americans have never been safer hack89 Oct 2014 #189

And the most violent was the mid 1990's (nt) Recursion Oct 2014 #220

very true Duckhunter935 Oct 2014 #181

I have mentioned this in the past Jenoch Oct 2014 #192

Which is odd, because shootings in schools were much more common in the 1970s than today Recursion Oct 2014 #215

The sad reality is that any serious anti gun legislation would drive gun sales through the roof. Initech Oct 2014 #172

I actually wondered RadicalGeek Oct 2014 #176

Gun sales would soar as people would buy firearms to protect themselves. branford Oct 2014 #188

I would like to see a fraction of the concern for 1 ebola death directed at gun violence. Vinca Oct 2014 #177

Death machines are the major U.S. industry, so no, not in our lifetimes. nt valerief Oct 2014 #182

not really Duckhunter935 Oct 2014 #187

I waiting for the move to ban branford Oct 2014 #190

If it saves just one childs life........ Duckhunter935 Oct 2014 #191

lets talk about swimming pools dsc Oct 2014 #196

Insurance isn't required for a swimming pool. NutmegYankee Oct 2014 #197

there is no permit whatsoever to buy a gun in my state or any state which borders mine dsc Oct 2014 #198

Connecticut. NutmegYankee Oct 2014 #199

And nevertheless, still more children die in swimming pools than by guns, branford Oct 2014 #200

Not in my lifetime. kestrel91316 Oct 2014 #206

Well, let's look at why they have plummeted over the past 20 years, maybe? Recursion Oct 2014 #219

No - Because The Right Wing Will Protect Their Benefactors cantbeserious Oct 2014 #227

no. our precious guns will not allow it. period. spanone Oct 2014 #229