General Discussion

randome

(34,845 posts)

84. That database contains a shitload of programs that the NSA has used and probably still uses.

Sat Oct 25, 2014, 08:17 PM

Oct 2014

So? The header starts off with the ACLU saying that the NSA is monitoring 'hundreds of millions' of Americans, which sounds like hyperbole without substance to back it up. Especially since there are 'only' 3 hundred million Americans today.

The idea that the NSA collects data on Americans while they are overseas is a valid topic for discussion.

But in today's digital world, as I've pointed out before, it is not difficult, it is impossible to monitor a foreign suspect's communications without inadvertently 'grabbing' data that may belong to an American citizen.

Just like it's impossible to only hear one side of a tapped phone conversation.

So what is there in those documents that can be proved right or wrong? That the NSA is a massive bureaucracy? That the ACLU is right when it says all Americans are being spied on all the time? Because that's what 'hundreds of millions' of Americans would lead one to believe. Where is the evidence supporting this?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"The whole world is a circus if you know how to look at it."
Tony Randall, 7 Faces of Dr. Lao (1964)[/center][/font][hr]

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

214 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

The Edward Snowden Documentary Accidentally Exposes His Lies [View all] JaneyVee Oct 2014 OP

Rec to the review, nyet to seeing him in a bathrobe or in bed or to his Deep Thoughts. n/t UTUSN Oct 2014 #1

To evaluate Edward Snowden, QuestionAlways Oct 2014 #96

And I respect your opinion without name-calling. n/t UTUSN Oct 2014 #100

That wasn't name calling Aerows Oct 2014 #102

Sheesh, I didn't say this poster was name-calling. I was making the point from the different UTUSN Oct 2014 #104

You brought up the charge of namecalling Aerows Oct 2014 #105

& now, in farewell, I will bring up "flame baiting" which is what you are doing. UTUSN Oct 2014 #108

Oh my Aerows Oct 2014 #110

& a 2nd characteristic of flame-baiting is to continue and continue and continue UTUSN Oct 2014 #112

Have a lovely evening Aerows Oct 2014 #115

ISIS or ISIL behavior and their recruitment of homegrown terrorist wannabes rests the NSA case. nt kelliekat44 Oct 2014 #2

Oh ok MFrohike Oct 2014 #27

I haven't read the article yet but the very first paragraph of your snip is a lie riderinthestorm Oct 2014 #3

It doesn't say the drone program wasn't a CIA program. JaneyVee Oct 2014 #17

The drone program couldn't be reasonably debated until it was exposed...by whistleblowers riderinthestorm Oct 2014 #26

Yes, a whistleblower named Obama, in May 2012, speaking on the record to the NYT ucrdem Oct 2014 #150

Right wing BS. BillZBubb Oct 2014 #4

NewRepublic is a liberal publication. JaneyVee Oct 2014 #6

Surely you jest. (nt) enough Oct 2014 #9

That's rich. GeorgeGist Oct 2014 #36

+1 deutsey Oct 2014 #61

"Rich" "Study: Putting Women in Charge Makes Companies More Successful/We Already Know the Winner of Cha Oct 2014 #133

"Study: Putting Women in Charge Makes Companies More Successful/We Already Know the Winner of Next Cha Oct 2014 #132

It poses as a 'liberal' publication. But it is a Center Right anti-Left, sabrina 1 Oct 2014 #146

The responses to your post display just how far out of touch Greenwald's fan base is. baldguy Oct 2014 #149

So liberal they hired Andrew Sullivan to be their editor! QC Oct 2014 #171

It's a movie review. Did Greenwald urge him to greater urgency? randome Oct 2014 #8

You mean the ninnies trying to white wash what he did.... VanillaRhapsody Oct 2014 #28

Only an apologist for the Stasi or the national security state would make that claim. BillZBubb Oct 2014 #50

yeah right.....musta struck a nerve! VanillaRhapsody Oct 2014 #51

No, it's Reality but Greenwald/Snowden can't stand handle that. Cha Oct 2014 #130

Even in Snowden's movie, Greenwald can't stop himself from being at center stage. randome Oct 2014 #5

It isn't "Snowden's movie" elias49 Oct 2014 #62

It should have been Snowden's movie if he had anything new to say. randome Oct 2014 #78

It's Laura Poitras' movie about Snowden. nt stevenleser Oct 2014 #79

Duh. nt elias49 Oct 2014 #80

Which, for some reason should not have included Greenwald? Question.. Luminous Animal Oct 2014 #107

Um, you said Greedwald. ucrdem Oct 2014 #151

Thanks. Tipsy. Luminous Animal Oct 2014 #175

I know what I would do. randome Oct 2014 #156

So, you would encourage him to have his life destroyed ala Binney and Drake. Luminous Animal Oct 2014 #181

Shrug. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Oct 2014 #7

If this is the case... VanillaRhapsody Oct 2014 #29

People, possibly even you, have called it that from the start. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Oct 2014 #32

That's a stupid argument MFrohike Oct 2014 #40

OH now he is a politician? Then he should have run for office instead of committing crimes to prove VanillaRhapsody Oct 2014 #47

+++Excellent+++ LawDeeDah Oct 2014 #52

Way to double down on stupid MFrohike Oct 2014 #53

you are comparing him to MLK now? VanillaRhapsody Oct 2014 #55

Way to triple down MFrohike Oct 2014 #69

We may want it but don't feel entitled to go outside the law to get it treestar Oct 2014 #63

Well, that's the whole argument here, isn't it? Erich Bloodaxe BSN Oct 2014 #95

Under our government, the law deserves a basic respect. treestar Oct 2014 #119

I think war crimes, torture, murder, kidnapping are pretty extreme. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Oct 2014 #138

Reads As A Character Assassination Hit Piece - Author Has An Axe To Grind cantbeserious Oct 2014 #10

Funny that Greenwald's fan can't recognize that he does too. baldguy Oct 2014 #24

His Axe To Grind - Tear Down The Establishment - Says So Plainly At TED cantbeserious Oct 2014 #31

It's a reality based review and snowden's fans call it an "axe to grind".. LOL Cha Oct 2014 #131

Jews were put in concentration camps legally. MannyGoldstein Oct 2014 #11

Monitoring foreign communications equals 'Death to all Jews!' Got it. randome Oct 2014 #12

I said that? MannyGoldstein Oct 2014 #15

Pretty much. If those 2 statements are not equivalent, why did you compare them, Mr. Godwin? randome Oct 2014 #18

The point, my friend, is that MannyGoldstein Oct 2014 #21

Okay, it's a good point. randome Oct 2014 #22

You Make It Sound Like Ordinary Americans Are Not In The Cross-Hairs Of The NSA... WillyT Oct 2014 #85

And where is the evidence supporting that? randome Oct 2014 #87

Go Here: WillyT Oct 2014 #89

None of those articles supports the idea that the NSA is targeting American citizens. randome Oct 2014 #91

You Have Reading Comprehension Issues... WillyT Oct 2014 #93

"...program used to investigate Americans..." does not address how the NSA came upon this evidence. randome Oct 2014 #94

And... WillyT Oct 2014 #99

Yeah, those Bush days were something, weren't they? randome Oct 2014 #134

Specious comments Aerows Oct 2014 #117

There's something about Eddie that brings out the exaggeration gene treestar Oct 2014 #66

It isn't only the GOP that lacks leaders. So does the Democratic party. randome Oct 2014 #76

irony Fred Drum Oct 2014 #77

Yes, I know people like to argue they did not use the exact words treestar Oct 2014 #120

yes, i know people like to exaggerate Fred Drum Oct 2014 #126

You must have misunderstood her point. Legal does not mean correct. IM if you need more info. nt Logical Oct 2014 #140

Within the interviews and articles written by Greenwald are several Thinkingabout Oct 2014 #13

And it took all this time for Snowden to reveal the earth-shattering reason for his leaks. randome Oct 2014 #16

Well, its one story yesterday and today it is about the drones, guess it will be another reason Thinkingabout Oct 2014 #20

As soon as they start on the "fair trial".. sendero Oct 2014 #14

As charged under the Espionage Act, Snowden has zero chance at a fair trial. riderinthestorm Oct 2014 #19

and that is what all criminals think... VanillaRhapsody Oct 2014 #30

What a lot of noncriminals think as well. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Oct 2014 #33

leave Snowden ALONE!!! VanillaRhapsody Oct 2014 #37

Snowden will receive due process only if it is "feasible." OnyxCollie Oct 2014 #23

Right. Snowden has to hide because the government will kill him. randome Oct 2014 #25

I don't think it's 'will', I think it's 'might'. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Oct 2014 #34

Happy enough to let them rot where they trapped themselves, too. randome Oct 2014 #35

His girlfriend is with him now so his rotting is likely to be significantly more pleasant. Luminous Animal Oct 2014 #42

That's possible. I admit to being surprised she went to Russia. randome Oct 2014 #45

She does not live there. She visits. nt MADem Oct 2014 #186

Funny the warm and fuzzies some have just because they like the guy sitting at the helm. Puzzledtraveller Oct 2014 #111

pathetic is the right answer (NT) Fred Drum Oct 2014 #127

No Aerows Oct 2014 #118

Smear, smear, smear. woo me with science Oct 2014 #38

There's no substance here. Just throwing poop at Ed Snowden, hoping some sticks. GoneFishin Oct 2014 #39

The usual...crap thrown at Snowden/Greenwald...but on a Dem Site KoKo Oct 2014 #128

It's gotten great reviews all over the place. Nearly all paint Snowden in quite glowing Luminous Animal Oct 2014 #41

Here's a link to the updated national release of Citizenfour riderinthestorm Oct 2014 #43

It's here in San Francisco. I plan on seeing in tomorrow or Monday. I'm very excited to see it, too! Luminous Animal Oct 2014 #46

TNR gives team Snowball too much credit. ucrdem Oct 2014 #44

That perfectly legal warrant and the misunderstanding of PRISM. randome Oct 2014 #48

Right, the smoking PowerPoints. ucrdem Oct 2014 #49

I smell scam too. Dont call me Shirley Oct 2014 #57

Long list. Basically all the old the stink bombs and a few fresh booby traps ucrdem Oct 2014 #139

Assaultive competitiveness is the wrong way to run a country. Dont call me Shirley Oct 2014 #145

ODS is a force that gives us meaning ucrdem Oct 2014 #153

+1 treestar Oct 2014 #67

Yep. . . ucrdem Oct 2014 #141

How the fuck do people like you sleep at night? 20score Oct 2014 #54

couldn't have said it better myself marym625 Oct 2014 #56

There are a few on this thread - and they're on threads like this - 20score Oct 2014 #59

yep! n/t marym625 Oct 2014 #60

Good grief treestar Oct 2014 #65

You have it completely backwards. Read what I said in post #54. 20score Oct 2014 #68

I'm a thinking person. Who are you to say I'm not? randome Oct 2014 #74

Because i don't deny empirical evidence - and yes, your side does. 20score Oct 2014 #81

That database contains a shitload of programs that the NSA has used and probably still uses. randome Oct 2014 #84

This is the last time I address you until you use the scientific method. At least once! 20score Oct 2014 #86

Good luck on your new thread on this topic, then. randome Oct 2014 #88

Why do you get to decide the terms of the debate? treestar Oct 2014 #124

You indeed do treestar Oct 2014 #123

Oh baloney. treestar Oct 2014 #122

"Truly close to the bottom of humanity" CakeGrrl Oct 2014 #211

note TNR's support for the Contras, Israel, and the Iraq adventures MisterP Oct 2014 #58

overreaction treestar Oct 2014 #64

It's not a disagreement. That trivalizes what your side is doing. 20score Oct 2014 #70

What NSA reforms have been accomplished? joshcryer Oct 2014 #71

Because every time marym625 Oct 2014 #73

What are you talking about? joshcryer Oct 2014 #75

I don't even think he qualifies as a whistleblower! treestar Oct 2014 #121

I think they're including dog whistles ucrdem Oct 2014 #148

Right On bahrbearian Oct 2014 #72

+1000 The pro-survellance state gang are not liberals at all. They may be partisan loyalist. Douglas Carpenter Oct 2014 #82

Yup. truebrit71 Oct 2014 #92

Well said! n/t Aerows Oct 2014 #103

So tell me one thing Andy823 Oct 2014 #157

You're proving my point. 20score Oct 2014 #159

Really? Andy823 Oct 2014 #160

Goddamnit! No, I won't answer your question. Greenwald is not the story. 20score Oct 2014 #163

Greenwald speaks for Snowden Andy823 Oct 2014 #166

I have posted this about six times in the last 24 hours. Once more. 20score Oct 2014 #168

Documents are not crimes, but stealing them is. nt ucrdem Oct 2014 #170

That's your come back?! For fucks sake! 20score Oct 2014 #173

Yes, and I notice you're not denying it. nt ucrdem Oct 2014 #174

Denying what? WTF are you talking about? 20score Oct 2014 #176

Glad I could straighten things out for you. nt ucrdem Oct 2014 #178

Isn't that special? 99Forever Oct 2014 #83

Here we go again. Andy823 Oct 2014 #162

Walks like a duck, 99Forever Oct 2014 #164

Great reply. Andy823 Oct 2014 #167

Nothing "great" or "clever" about it. 99Forever Oct 2014 #169

And the truth is, Snowden and Greenwald exposed no criminal behavior except their own. ucrdem Oct 2014 #172

Neat excerpt. Where are the lies that are referenced in the title? DisgustipatedinCA Oct 2014 #90

"Despite Poitras� best efforts, the movie confirms the views of his critics." Cha Oct 2014 #97

Except near every other review, even some Snowden critics, says the opposite. Luminous Animal Oct 2014 #109

Why would Snowden be on trial at all? Nothing he said was true... hughee99 Oct 2014 #98

You can hate on Edward Snowden Aerows Oct 2014 #101

...^ that 840high Oct 2014 #106

I concur. Luminous Animal Oct 2014 #114

You can judge somebody by who their enemies are. LeftyMom Oct 2014 #113

LMAO! Aerows Oct 2014 #116

Immature. nt treestar Oct 2014 #125

"In other words, the trial is �unfair� because the evidence conclusively establishes that Snowden Cha Oct 2014 #129

They just want to get their nilesobek Oct 2014 #135

Whatever Snowden's shortcomings may be, they don't excuse the NSA's crimes. Scuba Oct 2014 #136

Yep. 840high Oct 2014 #137

+10000 Of course they don't. Which is why all these PR threads are pathetic. woo me with science Oct 2014 #142

Which NSA crimes did Snowball expose again? ucrdem Oct 2014 #143

. randome Oct 2014 #155

.. ucrdem Oct 2014 #158

... ucrdem Oct 2014 #165

.... ucrdem Oct 2014 #177

The ones that they are currently being sued for by the EFF and the ACLU. Luminous Animal Oct 2014 #180

The EFF and ACLU are suing crimes exposed by Snowden? ucrdem Oct 2014 #182

Look it up. It's really easy. Luminous Animal Oct 2014 #183

Right. There are no such, at least before edits. But thanks for popping in. ucrdem Oct 2014 #184

I did an OP about one such lawsuit today. It's on the greatest page. Luminous Animal Oct 2014 #187

You also edited your post after I had answered it. nt ucrdem Oct 2014 #188

Ah, I see. Glad to see you focus on the meat of things. Luminous Animal Oct 2014 #189

I don't rely on deception to make my points, no. nt ucrdem Oct 2014 #190

I added the word "for". Ooooh! Deception. Luminous Animal Oct 2014 #194

The Jewel case was filed in 2008, back when Snowden loved his prez. nt ucrdem Oct 2014 #199

So? EFF now has a stronger case. Their motion for partial summary judgment uses, among other things Luminous Animal Oct 2014 #200

Swell. Meanwhile, no NSA crimes exposed by team Snowball. Thanks. nt ucrdem Oct 2014 #203

Nope. Opposite of EFF's and the ACLU's position. Luminous Animal Oct 2014 #206

I'll put that next to the Pulitzers they won. nt ucrdem Oct 2014 #208

The ACLU and EFF won Pulitzers'? I hate it when I miss the big news. Luminous Animal Oct 2014 #209

Not to worry. Everyone wins a Pulitzer on the internet. ucrdem Oct 2014 #214

Snowden with NSA Director General Michael Hayden at a gala in 2011 ucrdem Oct 2014 #144

Snowball whopper #1, June 17, 2013: ucrdem Oct 2014 #147

Monday June 11, 2013. "NSA leak is treason, says Feinstein" Luminous Animal Oct 2014 #179

Senator Feinstein is not the Attorney General. nt ucrdem Oct 2014 #191

Snowden did not specify the AG. Feinstein holds a very powerful position in government. Luminous Animal Oct 2014 #192

Prosecutions are Holder's bailiwick and he spoke four days later. nt ucrdem Oct 2014 #195

And? There is no lie. He never claimed that the US govt. said he should be prosecuted Luminous Animal Oct 2014 #196

Feinstein is not the USG, and the USG did not openly declare Snowden guilty of treason. ucrdem Oct 2014 #198

Feinstein is indeed the U.S. government. All three branches are the U.S. government. Luminous Animal Oct 2014 #201

She holds an office. So does Holder, and his has jurisdiction in this matter. nt ucrdem Oct 2014 #202

And? Holder's jurisdiction is not the point of contention. Luminous Animal Oct 2014 #204

Snowy's claim is the point and he lied. I'm sorry. nt ucrdem Oct 2014 #205

Mr. Snowden's claim is in plain language. The U.S. government, as represented by powerful Senators, Luminous Animal Oct 2014 #207

Fareed Zakaria noted the difference on his CNN show this morning. pinto Oct 2014 #152

Defense, under the espionage act, would be barred from bringing up intent. Luminous Animal Oct 2014 #185

Thanks for the clarification. I stated it wrong. I think Fareed was posing some theoretical points. pinto Oct 2014 #212

Mahalo for that, pinto. Cha Oct 2014 #210

A lot of nice adjectives and descriptive verbs. Reads more like a creative writing exercise. CJCRANE Oct 2014 #154

Fits with these other articles by this 22YO: KurtNYC Oct 2014 #161

Who cares. SomethingFishy Oct 2014 #193

Nobody is trying to divide themselves up. We are clearly divided with little or no effort at all. Luminous Animal Oct 2014 #197

K&R. Snowden's story is riddled with lies and inconsistencies. nt stevenleser Oct 2014 #213