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In reply to the discussion: Why is the American left not as effective as the European left? [View all]MADem
(135,425 posts)119. Decades? Berlusconi and Sarkozy were progressive? Merkel is a rightie. Le Pen almost won in France.
She's not ready to go gently into that good night, either.
I think the grass is always greener in the other fellah's yard. It looks good from a distance. Not so nice up close.
It's not all happy families over there these days--people are pissed, possessive and pushy. And it's starting to show.
http://www.france24.com/en/20141010-ukip-britain-anti-eu-party-first-parliament-seat-/
Britain's anti-EU UK Independence Party won its first elected seat in parliament on Friday by a huge margin and came a close second in another vote, proving it poses a threat to the country's two main parties in a national election next year.
Get a load of this guy: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/06/geert-wilders-backs-new-anti-islam-party-the-australian-liberty-alliance
And in France... http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/28/front-national-wins-seats-french-senate-first-time
The far-right Front National (FN) scored a historic victory in elections to the French senate on Sunday, winning its first ever seats in the upper chamber as the ruling Socialists and their leftwing allies lost their majority to rightwing parties.
The shock victory of Stéphane Ravier from Marseilles and David Rachline from Fréjus confirmed the partys political breakthrough under Marine Le Pen, who has brushed the poisonous legacy of her father Jean-Marie Le Pen under the carpet in an attempt to de-demonise the FN.
The two seats are both in the FNs stronghold in southern France, and at 26 Rachline, the mayor of Fréjus, is the youngest French senator ever elected.
The result marks a third humiliating electoral defeat for the Socialist party, which has been punished by disillusioned voters while support for the FN has surged. Le Pens party won control of a dozen municipalities in elections last March, including the 7th district in Marseilles where Ravier was elected mayor.
Deeply progressive policies? People have had enough of them in Europe, and they want to go the other way--they were "deeply progressive" when those "minorities" were just a few here and there; when they started arriving in numbers, it was au revoir Josephine Baker, bar the door and don't let any more in!!!! We're starting to see that Europeans are not as "tolerant" as they like to pretend, in fact, a lot of 'em are xenophobic in the extreme.
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Why is the American left not as effective as the European left? [View all]
True Blue Door
Oct 2014
OP
It's not War and Peace. Read the OP like a grownup, then get back to me.
True Blue Door
Oct 2014
#46
Dismissing it in its entirety without explanation is "the slightest criticism"?
True Blue Door
Oct 2014
#76
sounds like it was written by somebody who came into office as a youngish progressive
nashville_brook
Oct 2014
#7
i've been seeing "the left" get LOTS done -- paid sick time, raise the wage, and GOTV
nashville_brook
Oct 2014
#16
I've seen the liberal leaders whom the left constantly trashes get those things done.
True Blue Door
Oct 2014
#38
I loathe individual people who care more about their egos than about other people.
True Blue Door
Oct 2014
#68
Exactly. The OP is a reaction to present circumstances, and argues for changing them.
True Blue Door
Oct 2014
#70
What do you think the LGBT rights advances came from, the right? Centrists who nattered about
Bluenorthwest
Oct 2014
#25
My point was that these things had been "pushed for" by the left for decades. Ineffectually.
True Blue Door
Oct 2014
#95
The state senator I vote for every time is consistently the most progressive one in my state.
suffragette
Oct 2014
#106
I love the fact I finally got my teeth taken care of thanks to Obamacare. Too bad you only care
KittyWampus
Oct 2014
#42
And again, you're trolling childish retorts because you have no rational arguments to make.
True Blue Door
Oct 2014
#157
Well, which is it? Do you not consider yourself American, or do you not consider yourself Left?
True Blue Door
Oct 2014
#155
Because Europe's media isn't owned in its entirety by five billionaires, like it is in the US.
PSPS
Oct 2014
#15
Pretty bad. This is takeover of education/history by RW in 35 yrs., corporate media, dumbed down.
appalachiablue
Oct 2014
#146
No backing from the established party. Zephyr Teachout, Barbara Buono who were Both sound contenders
adirondacker
Oct 2014
#26
And to you that's enough, but not to anyone who actually needs help from the government.
True Blue Door
Oct 2014
#97
"If it's all about money and return on investment and stock shares and all that,
adirondacker
Oct 2014
#45
The bullshit is only going to get heavier and heavier and more voluminous when the 2014
djean111
Oct 2014
#50
I agree with Moyers, but I don't see how this relates to what we're discussing.
True Blue Door
Oct 2014
#100
also, watch what happens when left congress folk try to form coalitions with libertarian Rs
nashville_brook
Oct 2014
#44
Ludicrous accusation. Constructive, rational criticism = "lefty punching." Sheer insecurity.
True Blue Door
Oct 2014
#102
You didn't even read the OP. You've made that clear, now stop spamming.
True Blue Door
Oct 2014
#103
It is TL/DR....but why do you think the "European Left" is so successful? They aren't.
MADem
Oct 2014
#65
They would have to be reversed quite a long ways to become like our systems.
True Blue Door
Oct 2014
#127
Decades? Berlusconi and Sarkozy were progressive? Merkel is a rightie. Le Pen almost won in France.
MADem
Oct 2014
#119
There are serious cracks in that armor. They aren't new, and they are getting worse, not better.
MADem
Oct 2014
#192
Progress is not a straight line, so there were bound to be reversals for Europe.
True Blue Door
Oct 2014
#216
Progress may not be a straight line, but when the entire region, pretty much, screams
MADem
Oct 2014
#221
1200 hate radio stations owned, run, and staffed by the looniest of the loony right. Complete
Doctor_J
Oct 2014
#87
Seems to have pissed off quite a few people who see themselves reflected in it.
True Blue Door
Oct 2014
#131
Yep. And now that you realize that, take the insults (because there was no discussion
Number23
Oct 2014
#152
The Left has to fight a coalition (or, Devil's Brew) now of Republicans and 3rd Way Democrats.
Tierra_y_Libertad
Oct 2014
#111
that's it exactly. As soon as Obama and the rest of the DINOs support Sanders instead of PHARMA,
Doctor_J
Oct 2014
#132
So, the Democrats should form coalitions with the Left instead of the quasi-Republican "moderates".
Tierra_y_Libertad
Oct 2014
#142
Unfortunately, the party seems very comfortable with it's right wing pals and beneficiaries.
Tierra_y_Libertad
Oct 2014
#158
The left will align itself with the Party when it proves itself a reliabale friend
Tierra_y_Libertad
Oct 2014
#187
If the Left is so "ineffective" why does it get blamed when the Democrats lose?
Tierra_y_Libertad
Oct 2014
#229
Yes, Wellstone was definitely one of the last humanist titans in the federal government.
True Blue Door
Oct 2014
#135
You mean like the way we punished Liz Warren and Bernie Sanders for being effective legislators?
pa28
Oct 2014
#114
Can you support the claim that Warren and Sanders are effective legislators?
True Blue Door
Oct 2014
#136
Over a half century of demonization of 'communists' and 'socialists'
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
Oct 2014
#161
The left bears a lot of responsibility for right-wing victories. Denying that would be dishonest.
True Blue Door
Oct 2014
#190
Why should anyone take this seriously? You offer no evidence for anything you say.
Vattel
Oct 2014
#162
Because it's content with the excuses provided by history and the status quo.
True Blue Door
Oct 2014
#178
You know...you should publish this. It speaks truth to me...if not "truth" at least reality. nt
kelliekat44
Oct 2014
#198
This post is preposterous with the rise of the ultra-nationalists in the EU.
joshcryer
Oct 2014
#209
I'm trying to point that out, pretty much, and getting the "Well but it's a continuum" argument in
MADem
Oct 2014
#222
I suppose if we simply define what would be considered center-right everywhere else in the western
Douglas Carpenter
Oct 2014
#223
Well it seems you insist on pushing your agenda on what you think a liberal/leftist is so..
Kalidurga
Jun 2015
#236