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Live and Learn

(12,769 posts)

121. But we are not taking out more collectively.

Sat Nov 1, 2014, 01:42 PM

Nov 2014

You are failing to take in to account how pension funds are invested. They are not just invested in the stock market but in a variety of ventures.

You are also failing to take in to consideration the fact that not all retirees live long lives. Pension benefits cease being paid to n individual upon their death so any monies that would hve belonged to them are still in the collective pool instead of in their individual IRAs.

Another plus is that you can't borrow against your pension or take it out early like people with other retirement plans often do.

A properly run pension plan is far superior for the majority of people than asking people to attempt to save on their own.

I am certain that this country is heading for a retirement crisis in the not to distant future because of the drive away from defined pensions and reliability on individual retirement savings and IRAs.

Wall street is the only entity profiting off of the current system and it likes to take your money and run.

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I was shocked comparing my wife's 401K to my [View all] upaloopa Oct 2014 OP

My Garbage Pail Kid cards didn't turn into the investment I had hoped for NightWatcher Oct 2014 #1

Are any of them actually worth anything? badtoworse Oct 2014 #4

i resemble that remark !!!!! unionthug777 Oct 2014 #10

LMAO! Enthusiast Oct 2014 #12

YES ! ALWAYS USE THE SCARCASM THING. Hoppy Oct 2014 #13

I got so screwed by Pokemon I finally gave up. Elmer S. E. Dump Oct 2014 #29

Oh no! Paulie Oct 2014 #59

Unfortunatley he/she was undiscovered! Elmer S. E. Dump Oct 2014 #63

Bad news - the bottom dropped out of the Beanie Baby market a long time ago dflprincess Oct 2014 #35

worse news DonCoquixote Oct 2014 #51

And, if not regulated, dflprincess Oct 2014 #104

There are lots of people out there with baseball card collections who will be disappointed also.... yellowcanine Nov 2014 #133

My husband is a retired marine engineer with a defined pension, too, Blue_In_AK Oct 2014 #2

I'm retired MEBA as well. cloudbase Oct 2014 #30

You should provide more information if you intend for people to make an informed judgment. badtoworse Oct 2014 #3

Anecdotal, but I have noticed over the years that union members generally have an easier CTyankee Oct 2014 #5

I have been employed by my employer for 7 years upaloopa Oct 2014 #6

She'll most likely get more than she puts in SickOfTheOnePct Oct 2014 #7

You can buy a lifetime annuity with your 401k money that does the same thing badtoworse Oct 2014 #8

There's still something missing here FBaggins Oct 2014 #40

Every year I get a statement that adds my employer upaloopa Oct 2014 #62

I will work 8 yr and 7 mos and after l will upaloopa Oct 2014 #64

it would likely not - you are benefitting from fellow members receiving less however whatthehey Oct 2014 #72

We all a agreed to pay for each other that is upaloopa Oct 2014 #77

"Can't see a 401K doing that." A HERETIC I AM Oct 2014 #74

I didn't fall off a turnip truck yesterday. upaloopa Oct 2014 #78

No beef whatsoever. A HERETIC I AM Oct 2014 #79

We get a full report every year on how our pension funds upaloopa Oct 2014 #80

LOL.... A HERETIC I AM Oct 2014 #92

I am not even going to read all of that. upaloopa Oct 2014 #93

Underfunded pension plan econoclast Oct 2014 #98

God you don't even have a clue what you are talking about! I really wonder where you get the sense upaloopa Oct 2014 #99

Pretty chart. Past performance is no guarantee of future results econoclast Oct 2014 #103

This is a game to you isn't it? upaloopa Oct 2014 #105

Yep, a few CA counties (usually right wing managed counties) did poorly on their returns Live and Learn Oct 2014 #107

Nanner, nanner, nanner, I can't hear you. deaniac21 Oct 2014 #97

One problem is that financial companies Yupster Oct 2014 #100

Very true. A HERETIC I AM Oct 2014 #101

But you know that once you are past your retirement age, your investment JDPriestly Nov 2014 #115

"But what you forget is that those investments go up and down over time." A HERETIC I AM Nov 2014 #116

The tax deferrment is great if, while you are working, you are paying high tax rates. JDPriestly Nov 2014 #117

As a teacher my wife was able... meaculpa2011 Nov 2014 #119

Aside from earning dividends/stock growth... GummyBearz Oct 2014 #60

Real value of your plan One_Life_To_Give Oct 2014 #9

So $1 million saved and accrued in growth or interest would equal an income of about $40,000 per JDPriestly Oct 2014 #20

Excellent post with honest numbers nikto Oct 2014 #36

how do honest numbers include zero gains? whatthehey Oct 2014 #61

You're gonna' be rich nikto Oct 2014 #106

comfortable is more likely. Certainly a lot richer than I would be without the 401k though. whatthehey Oct 2014 #108

Yes, that analysis completely ignores gains LondonReign2 Oct 2014 #109

@JDPriestly Excellent post mackerel Oct 2014 #47

+2,000,000 Fumesucker Oct 2014 #48

excellent post LittleGirl Oct 2014 #49

OK,but... LondonReign2 Oct 2014 #110

That's great if you start young LittleGirl Oct 2014 #114

Understood LondonReign2 Nov 2014 #128

That's right LittleGirl Nov 2014 #137

Putting a dollar value on the pension One_Life_To_Give Oct 2014 #58

Your pension is supporting you. Her 401K is supporting a LOT of people jtuck004 Oct 2014 #11

Bam!! nikto Oct 2014 #37

Kicked and recommended a whole bunch! Enthusiast Oct 2014 #14

Can relate to this. Wellstone ruled Oct 2014 #15

Excellent post. Thanks. JDPriestly Oct 2014 #16

..,... A HERETIC I AM Oct 2014 #76

I'd be interested in seeing the numbers behind this. Adrahil Oct 2014 #17

I work for county government. Our work force remains upaloopa Oct 2014 #18

I hear ya. I was a fed gov employee for 20 years. Adrahil Oct 2014 #34

Yeah, the defined benefit is doomed... nikto Oct 2014 #38

Well DBput! I'd add 'if the MSM makes it conventional wisdom that DB's don't work.' Gidney N Cloyd Oct 2014 #41

You are correct. They don't want to. Adrahil Oct 2014 #55

One of the enormous benefits of the 401k plans SheilaT Oct 2014 #19

It takes 5 years to be vested in our plan. upaloopa Oct 2014 #21

That's not true in my experience. badtoworse Oct 2014 #22

I never had a 401k so I pass to you upaloopa Oct 2014 #24

1 year? llmart Oct 2014 #27

Here is my experience with 401k company matching funds badtoworse Oct 2014 #52

Yes, five years, which is good. SheilaT Oct 2014 #23

But there are plans with no vesting period whopis01 Oct 2014 #32

The hospital I recently retired from also SheilaT Oct 2014 #45

Where I work, you are fully vested immediately. tammywammy Oct 2014 #39

Spouses' company just added another year to their vesting LittleGirl Oct 2014 #50

I'll take the defined benefit plan any day..... llmart Oct 2014 #28

defined benefit pensions can be portable. There is nothing preventing a db plan from providing an antigop Oct 2014 #44

Interesting. I've never known of a defined benefit pension that was portable. SheilaT Oct 2014 #46

And defined benefit plans are not always fully funded.... yellowcanine Nov 2014 #134

Yep. Not fully funded. SheilaT Nov 2014 #136

I currently am in two pension plans madville Oct 2014 #25

PLEASE tell the taxpayers that the private sector pays 50% more Omaha Steve Oct 2014 #26

Not always the case madville Oct 2014 #33

I will only work here 9 yrs and 7 mos. I will upaloopa Oct 2014 #53

+1,000 malaise Oct 2014 #31

You're lucky they matched her 401k. A lot of places don't even do that.... Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2014 #42

I hired on at my job with a pension plan but they fazed it out. I was just under the required years brewens Oct 2014 #43

It starts with US, the 99%, Buying UNION Made Products Youdontwantthetruth Oct 2014 #54

The great thing about 401k's is you are in there with the big boys. raouldukelives Oct 2014 #56

Where do you think defined benefit plans keep their money? whatthehey Oct 2014 #66

A good defined benefit plan is much better divested than simply Live and Learn Nov 2014 #132

But is likely very heavily invested in it whatthehey Nov 2014 #138

All I know is that ours has outperformed all the others in our state and Live and Learn Nov 2014 #139

ok - look and see what percentage they have in stocks and get back to me. whatthehey Nov 2014 #140

Here you go. Live and Learn Nov 2014 #141

In a 401k all the big players have escape routes when the market crashes libtodeath Oct 2014 #57

Fewer fingerprints to be found when draining 401Ks than when stealing pensions. Gidney N Cloyd Oct 2014 #65

but, if you want to avoid getting stuck in a crash, you can have your 401k go into dionysus Oct 2014 #75

Democrats should have made card check a top priority when they had a chance yurbud Oct 2014 #67

Isn't this apples to oranges? Proud Public Servant Oct 2014 #68

My wife gets a quarterly statement on it is upaloopa Oct 2014 #70

I'd be curious about the underlying assumptions Proud Public Servant Oct 2014 #71

I think it is done by an actuary upaloopa Oct 2014 #73

Unions are great but not all industries have them. dilby Oct 2014 #69

you get more, someone else gets less blackcrowflies Oct 2014 #81

Not true. What you are paid is determined by formula. upaloopa Oct 2014 #83

Yea until the formula breaks down GummyBearz Oct 2014 #84

You don't know anything about what you are posting. Here is our website. Read up upaloopa Oct 2014 #85

Uh... yea... GummyBearz Oct 2014 #86

Still trying for a win. Somehow you are smarter upaloopa Oct 2014 #87

Actually its the other way around... GummyBearz Oct 2014 #90

I feel for younger people I really do. upaloopa Oct 2014 #91

Well GummyBearz Oct 2014 #94

We agree on more than that I see upaloopa Oct 2014 #95

The plan had 900 million in unfunded liabilites on Dec 2013 Travis_0004 Oct 2014 #102

"If you take out more than what you put in, where does the difference come from?" LondonReign2 Oct 2014 #111

Dividends and ticker price gains are standard for any retirement plan GummyBearz Oct 2014 #112

I'm glad someone else understands this blackcrowflies Oct 2014 #113

Why would you subtract the gains made by dividends and gains? Live and Learn Nov 2014 #118

It makes sense when trying to do an apples to apples comparison GummyBearz Nov 2014 #120

But we are not taking out more collectively. Live and Learn Nov 2014 #121

So about that $900M shortfall in this defined benefits program... GummyBearz Nov 2014 #122

Only in poorly run programs. Live and Learn Nov 2014 #123

You need to tell the OP they are in a poorly run program Lonusca Nov 2014 #124

I think we have a generational divide issue here. GummyBearz Nov 2014 #125

Not a generational divide simply a divide on how to solve the problems Live and Learn Nov 2014 #126

I could be wrong, but I don't think that is correct LondonReign2 Nov 2014 #129

Sorry, but you don't fully understand how DB plans work LondonReign2 Nov 2014 #127

Sorry, I understand it better than you GummyBearz Nov 2014 #130

I kind of doubt you understand them better than I do LondonReign2 Nov 2014 #131

I can half agree GummyBearz Nov 2014 #135

+1 nt Live and Learn Nov 2014 #142

Now that's a plan worth getting behind. ileus Oct 2014 #82

pensions. NOT WALL STREET. pansypoo53219 Oct 2014 #88

Two things did Proud Public Servant Oct 2014 #89

You really should look at the .pdf document he linked above. A HERETIC I AM Oct 2014 #96