General Discussion

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)

291. No. It is the opposite of a religion, the opposite of dogma.

Tue Nov 4, 2014, 12:39 AM

Nov 2014

Science is based upon evidence, and if new evidence comes in that forces a re-evaluation of the current maps or descriptions of reality, the scientific method allows- actually insists upon- updating and revising the old faulty maps with new ones.

Religious dogma is the precise opposite- it involves having the answer first and then disregarding (or getting mad about) evidence that doesn't fit the preordained conclusion. Evolution by natural selection has ONLY been confirmed, repeatedly, by the incoming evidence.

I didn't "hear it here first"... people--- Theists, mostly- have been desperately looking for a way around the fact of evolution for over a century. It hasn't happened. I don't think it will. If it does, it will be science that answers that question, because that's what science does.

But stomping ones' feet or imagining that the truth isn't really the truth because one doesn't like the implications or the views of the guy who came up with the explanation... that aint science, mac.

When something is true, actually, verifiably, evidentiarily true, telling people that fact even though they don't want to hear it may seem the same as proselytizing some myth or fairy tale, but in actuality they are two totally different things.

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�God is not a magician�: Pope says Christians should believe in evolution and Big Bang [View all] kpete Oct 2014 OP

heads explode dembotoz Oct 2014 #1

Nah, Faux Snooze will totally ignore this so the cretins will not know about it. lark Oct 2014 #132

"because evolution requires the creation of beings that evolve." Fox viewers don't evolve. loudsue Oct 2014 #240

"God created man... olegramps Oct 2014 #136

What amazes me is that the fundies can't ... aggiesal Oct 2014 #200

Including here, it would seem. nt Union Scribe Nov 2014 #278

Closer...closer...closer. n/t Orsino Oct 2014 #2

Ouch! I doubt the RW can handle ebola and another of the Pope's revelations Frustratedlady Oct 2014 #3

"evolution requires the creation of beings that evolve". Now that wasn't so hard, was it? BlueStreak Oct 2014 #4

You mean making silly stuff up about a topic he knows zip about? gcomeau Oct 2014 #88

You do realize that the Vatican has priests with PhDs in biology, physics Drahthaardogs Oct 2014 #175

Indeed gcomeau Oct 2014 #176

I don't think I would call abiogensis a scientific fact Drahthaardogs Oct 2014 #178

Right.... RichGirl Oct 2014 #185

Sigh... gcomeau Oct 2014 #226

I wouldn't say "many." I think that number is probably small. Adrahil Oct 2014 #198

Kind of like there are "many scientists" gcomeau Oct 2014 #227

Uh no. Drahthaardogs Oct 2014 #229

They believe... gcomeau Oct 2014 #230

Awwww Drahthaardogs Oct 2014 #234

Educating you on the scientific reality of this topic? gcomeau Nov 2014 #267

Metabolism first theory? Drahthaardogs Nov 2014 #268

It makes a great deal of sense... gcomeau Nov 2014 #269

But it is not abiogenisis Drahthaardogs Nov 2014 #276

Umm, it is exactly abiogenesis. gcomeau Nov 2014 #277

I think you better go educate yourself. Drahthaardogs Nov 2014 #283

I happen to be rather thoroughly educated on it gcomeau Nov 2014 #284

DEFINITION: Drahthaardogs Nov 2014 #289

For cripes sake... gcomeau Nov 2014 #294

And One out of Five Dentists don't reccomend Trident for their patients who chew gum. Thor_MN Nov 2014 #246

Is that supposed to impress anyone? bvf Oct 2014 #242

I am willing to allow this Pope a liberal interpretation of "create" BlueStreak Nov 2014 #261

You can allow it, but he's not using it so that's kind of irrelevant. gcomeau Nov 2014 #266

The Jesuits are not anti-intellectualism like some other forms of Christianity. liberal_at_heart Oct 2014 #5

Actually Pope Pius XII issued an encyclical in 1950 saying there was no conflict between the TOE yellowcanine Oct 2014 #15

That's right... ReRe Oct 2014 #25

Evangelists are coming into the Catholic Church and polluting it TexasProgresive Oct 2014 #69

The Evangelical movement in the Catholic Church seemed to be catching on Maedhros Oct 2014 #103

They also instituted healing services and had nuns laying on of hands. hollysmom Oct 2014 #107

THere is a difference between Catholic Charismatics and Protestant Evangelical converts. TexasProgresive Oct 2014 #138

I avoid the Charismatics Drahthaardogs Oct 2014 #199

But this Pope says (or reads) it so beautifully. JDPriestly Oct 2014 #87

Francis is a different sort of pope, that much hifiguy Oct 2014 #110

I know. I just wish. He could change a lot that is stupid in the world. JDPriestly Oct 2014 #111

If the pope wishes to do something about our world, he could do it in a single proclamation BrotherIvan Oct 2014 #140

Very true. That was my first thought after I posted what I wrote. JDPriestly Oct 2014 #142

That is extremely sharp of your mom BrotherIvan Oct 2014 #155

In our day and age, it is irresponsible and even cruel to have a family that is larger than JDPriestly Oct 2014 #162

It was a priest that came up with mmonk Oct 2014 #193

I see utterly no conflict between the science of the big bang and of Einstein and the idea JDPriestly Oct 2014 #202

Exactly . . . markpkessinger Oct 2014 #187

Not Evangelicals. intheflow Oct 2014 #205

I actually thank them for my arrival at atheism bvf Oct 2014 #18

They equivocate a bit too much for my liking :) - nt KingCharlemagne Oct 2014 #31

The Jesuits kick ass! calimary Oct 2014 #97

" " " " " n/t MBS Oct 2014 #119

My best teachers in Catholic school were Jesuits. Cleita Oct 2014 #116

That's true, but unfortunately . . . markpkessinger Oct 2014 #188

A Jesuit came up lancer78 Oct 2014 #210

But yet their entire religion Arugula Latte Nov 2014 #263

Meanwhile repubs don't have the guts to say they believe in that or even global warming. Gidney N Cloyd Oct 2014 #6

They're just coming to terms with the theory that the earth is a sphere... Blanks Oct 2014 #156

This guy better get a taster. JaneyVee Oct 2014 #7

Nah, they're plenty happy for the misdirection. bvf Oct 2014 #20

That swill is getting harder and harder for you to sell. stevenleser Oct 2014 #115

What do you mean? n/t bvf Oct 2014 #134

I'll ask again. bvf Oct 2014 #223

that is shortsighted drray23 Oct 2014 #160

I don't think so. bvf Oct 2014 #184

Why? This has been the official position on evolution for at least 60 years. Warren Stupidity Oct 2014 #194

This has been Catholic Doctrine for a long, long time. The current Pope has a science background. bklyncowgirl Oct 2014 #8

Evolution taught in Science class HockeyMom Oct 2014 #11

1963 for me. The biology nun had two Masters degrees n/t eridani Oct 2014 #181

yes you are right. riversedge Oct 2014 #129

Pope Francis has a masters in chemistry Fortinbras Armstrong Oct 2014 #164

You already know the Fundies' answer to this: COLGATE4 Oct 2014 #9

A lesser-known fact about the KKK in its iteration in the 1920s and 30s was that KingCharlemagne Oct 2014 #33

I thought of the "crazy God warrior lady"... Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2014 #73

Good lord.... really? Raster Oct 2014 #177

Those types are all over the place.... Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2014 #211

I've always thought this ... there's some reason both have persisted for millenia. libdem4life Oct 2014 #10

Hinduism's creation stories blow every other religion's out of the water, imo. I don't KingCharlemagne Oct 2014 #35

Agree . Also Nordic mythology lunasun Oct 2014 #58

I wrote a paper on the Hindu creation myths a long time ago Voice for Peace Oct 2014 #64

The Egyptian Book of the Dead was fascinating reading...I know, doesn't sound too trendy or cool,but libdem4life Oct 2014 #189

Kemetic creation is pretty interesting Scootaloo Oct 2014 #204

I was raised Catholic, went to Catholic schools, and was taught these scientific theories Sanity Claws Oct 2014 #12

As was I etherealtruth Oct 2014 #24

I remember discussing the evolution of dinosaurs with a Bishop in 6th grade science fair. bklyncowgirl Oct 2014 #29

:-) ! etherealtruth Oct 2014 #38

christian fundamentalists need all the slamming they can get. n/t BlancheSplanchnik Oct 2014 #48

Without doubt etherealtruth Oct 2014 #52

Amen! calimary Oct 2014 #93

I went to a Catholic college and I had to have upaloopa Oct 2014 #80

Yep. Noticed that, too. calimary Oct 2014 #91

Yes, I also recommend a taster. : ) nt MBS Oct 2014 #117

Doing his best to keep his mythology relevant as the masses become more educated snooper2 Oct 2014 #13

The whole thing is a house of cards. Arugula Latte Oct 2014 #75

I don't get it either, and every time I tell someone they don't get to "pick & choose" snooper2 Oct 2014 #78

Next you're gonna tell me you don't believe in Santa, The Tooth Fairy, or elves. lindysalsagal Nov 2014 #272

It is very good marketing. Religion plays to two strong human qualities -- Arugula Latte Nov 2014 #285

And the human capacity for self-delusion when none of the promises materialize lindysalsagal Nov 2014 #286

Exactly. Arugula Latte Nov 2014 #287

God forbid the church lose its power. polichick Oct 2014 #161

For religion, the important thing should be that a Divine Being was involved with creation merrily Oct 2014 #14

Not a Catholic, but I was taught that Genesis was allegorical. riqster Oct 2014 #21

I think the Pope is generally respected throughout "Christendom"---except, of merrily Oct 2014 #32

I'm personally rooting for another Schism. n/t bvf Oct 2014 #37

I understand. merrily Oct 2014 #46

priorities rustbeltvoice Oct 2014 #124

Forgive me, but I don't take much politicians say at face value, including what they say about their merrily Oct 2014 #171

Yes, but... rustbeltvoice Oct 2014 #190

That was the Position William Jennings Bryan took at the Scope Monkey Trial in 1926 happyslug Oct 2014 #34

Not in the movie! (That's all I know of the Scopes Monkey Trial, but it's a wonderful film) merrily Oct 2014 #41

The Movie is hopelessly inaccurate happyslug Oct 2014 #149

It does appear, though, that Bryan was more literal about the Bible. merrily Oct 2014 #168

Yes, but as he said in his answers to Darrow's questions happyslug Oct 2014 #183

Plus, Rev. Schwartzback pointed out, "what is the point of early Genesis?" riqster Oct 2014 #42

Also, #2 Is Provable ProfessorGAC Oct 2014 #61

Yah hey, exactly! riqster Oct 2014 #70

Monotheism did not begin with the Hebrews. hifiguy Oct 2014 #114

There is indication that monotheism existed prior to the adoption of the Pagan Gods. happyslug Oct 2014 #167

Definitely bookmarking that for further reading! hifiguy Oct 2014 #173

Mendel (a Catholic who gets credit for the science of genetics) will be there to help them bridge KingCharlemagne Oct 2014 #40

Fruit flies Mendel? merrily Oct 2014 #45

why yes, thank you. BlancheSplanchnik Oct 2014 #50

I'm pretty sure he sat behind me in tenth grade geometry class. merrily Oct 2014 #53

Hey, don't knock insects! F4lconF16 Oct 2014 #98

I didn't. merrily Oct 2014 #169

I was joking. F4lconF16 Oct 2014 #196

I love this guy. nt FourScore Oct 2014 #16

Oh snap shenmue Oct 2014 #17

Do Rightwing Evangelicals accept the Pope as an authority in such matters? Martin Eden Oct 2014 #19

Please see Reply 32. merrily Oct 2014 #39

Regardless of "respect" for the Pope (and I have my doubts about that) ... Martin Eden Oct 2014 #137

I agree, esp. as to the relatively near future. merrily Oct 2014 #170

You must be kidding. Some don't even concider Catholics christians. Talk about uneducated about demosincebirth Oct 2014 #96

You must have missed the text of my post Martin Eden Oct 2014 #131

Only when they agree with him jberryhill Oct 2014 #145

...and the gaps get smaller and smaller .......... whatthehey Oct 2014 #22

He is a jesuit Marrah_G Oct 2014 #23

im surprised our pope haters havent chimed in - go frankie belzabubba333 Oct 2014 #26

Their heads are exploding. demosincebirth Oct 2014 #92

theyre both here now and a new one belzabubba333 Oct 2014 #100

As are those who will defend anti gay and anti choice activists strongly and without reservation Bluenorthwest Oct 2014 #133

I believe the haters are thinking the same thing those of us who tend to shrug over this pope do... Moonwalk Oct 2014 #113

Does he deserve a medal for phil89 Oct 2014 #95

I was taught this in Catholic school--early 60's. Kingofalldems Oct 2014 #118

I thought this was the long-standing position of the RCC ... Arugula Latte Oct 2014 #27

I hope this Pope has an excellent protective detail, given what befell KingCharlemagne Oct 2014 #28

What about John Paul I? Sanity Claws Oct 2014 #121

Yeah, I forgot about that precedent also. Strange times in which to live, eh? - nt KingCharlemagne Oct 2014 #122

Catholic schools have always taught science and evolution mountain grammy Oct 2014 #30

After a healthy dose of bvf Oct 2014 #44

The Roman Catholic church has been to the left of American evangelicals for decades. n/t SpankMe Oct 2014 #36

That's not very difficult, sort of damning the RC church with faint praise :) - nt KingCharlemagne Oct 2014 #43

Except on LGBT rights and of course women's reproductive freedom, two big issues on which Bluenorthwest Oct 2014 #62

Too many right-wing Catholics have been becoming Cathevangelicals. Rozlee Oct 2014 #71

I agree, and would add one more thing MBS Oct 2014 #135

Thank you! Rozlee Oct 2014 #206

Some Repubs claim ebola is airborne. SCVDem Oct 2014 #47

Holy Mother Church... HoosierCowboy Oct 2014 #49

Wow. Just wow. Avalux Oct 2014 #51

"... not a divine being..." Daemonaquila Oct 2014 #54

This is what the Catholic Church has said for many years. Isn't it? It is what I was taught as well, Bluenorthwest Oct 2014 #55

they will be calling him the Anti-Christ in 3......2........1.......n/t pepperbear Oct 2014 #56

But God is �all-powerful,� so why not create the heavens and the Earth. begin_within Oct 2014 #57

mainstream theology does still believe that: it's long said that Creation MisterP Oct 2014 #148

The problem is that it contradicts exboyfil Oct 2014 #59

I knew right from the start Liberalynn Oct 2014 #60

Old news Recursion Oct 2014 #63

The re-broadcast of those positions is a very good thing. Paladin Oct 2014 #65

Agreed on that Recursion Oct 2014 #67

Good point, unfortunately.... (nt) Paladin Oct 2014 #68

"BOOM"..... Historic NY Oct 2014 #66

Nah. Mariana Oct 2014 #72

The Catholic Church has long taught that the LibDemAlways Oct 2014 #74

God Robert24 Oct 2014 #76

What about the Talking snake, Frank? nt ErikJ Oct 2014 #77

Or the "water into wine", or "raising the dead" MNBrewer Oct 2014 #89

Intelligent design, in fancy clothes, is still intelligent design...nt SidDithers Oct 2014 #79

Intelligent design, in fancy clothes, is still intelligent design AlbertCat Oct 2014 #84

"universe from nothing" consensus? Starboard Tack Oct 2014 #128

Here's a whole book on it. Read up. AlbertCat Oct 2014 #163

A whole book indeed and a very interesting book at that. Starboard Tack Oct 2014 #244

Consensus..... general agreement AlbertCat Nov 2014 #245

Right! Now look up the definition of "nothing" Starboard Tack Nov 2014 #247

the definition of "nothing" AlbertCat Nov 2014 #248

Exactly! Thank you. Starboard Tack Nov 2014 #264

I went to Catholic School in the 80's and 90' and was always taught evolution. hrmjustin Oct 2014 #81

Yep.. the Bible is not some book of magic.. Peacetrain Oct 2014 #82

So what so called science supports his teaching that gay people are 'inherently disordered'? Bluenorthwest Oct 2014 #102

If you are talking about the Pope, Bluenorthwest.. I am not a Catholic Peacetrain Oct 2014 #166

This is a God (and Pope) I can believe in! cilla4progress Oct 2014 #83

And yet his priests are magicians, turning crackers into Jesus flesh. Arugula Latte Oct 2014 #85

Ha, posted that while I was writing mine. :-D -eom gcomeau Oct 2014 #90

"Now, let us all take communion..." gcomeau Oct 2014 #86

A very profound statement Zambero Oct 2014 #94

So what so called science supports his teaching that gay people are 'inherently disordered'? Bluenorthwest Oct 2014 #99

yes the pope is responsible for ALL the births in africa - belzabubba333 Oct 2014 #101

I'm talking about the deaths that happen when people are told condoms are a sin Bluenorthwest Oct 2014 #104

the catholic church cant stop people from using condoms, or having sex. people chose to do belzabubba333 Oct 2014 #112

Go read up on the issue, lives are at stake Bluenorthwest Oct 2014 #127

The Righties� will hate the Pope as bad as they do President Obama. Enthusiast Oct 2014 #105

They already do. Fortinbras Armstrong Oct 2014 #165

this Pope heaven05 Oct 2014 #106

Oh my (in George Takei voice). hifiguy Oct 2014 #108

So the Pope is doing a God rewrite to make him more amenable ballyhoo Oct 2014 #109

My Catholic school--upbringing taught evolution. As riversedge Oct 2014 #126

Then you might remember that the Catholic Church supports ballyhoo Oct 2014 #141

I hope he was calling out the fundies. Kingofalldems Oct 2014 #120

Mighty hard to see it as anything else. hifiguy Oct 2014 #152

The man is fearless. MBS Oct 2014 #123

This man needs a food taster. EEO Oct 2014 #125

And a mirror! n/t jen63 Oct 2014 #174

Come On God must know at least 1 card trick, perhaps some slight of hand? Youdontwantthetruth Oct 2014 #130

Makes sense. Hell, it was Georges Lema�tre who proposed the Big Bang theory LittleBlue Oct 2014 #139

Splitting The Baby? RadicalGeek Oct 2014 #143

There's never been any need to do so. The RCC has a long intellectual history... Hekate Oct 2014 #146

The Vatican Does Have an Observatory RadicalGeek Oct 2014 #150

yes they do. Raster Oct 2014 #179

So what so called science supports the teaching that gay people are 'inherently disordered'? Bluenorthwest Oct 2014 #153

BNW, if you don't see the difference, there's no conversation to be had Hekate Oct 2014 #201

You did not even try to answer the question. Where is the science in his bigotry? Bluenorthwest Oct 2014 #224

Bazinga! KamaAina Oct 2014 #144

Lol! BeanMusical Oct 2014 #151

Thanks, and welcome to DU! KamaAina Oct 2014 #154

The Big Bang Theory is just Catholic Theology made by a Catholic Priest happyslug Oct 2014 #172

I think that even Sheldon AnnieBW Oct 2014 #195

But his mom wouldn't KamaAina Oct 2014 #209

I believe in Big Bang, too. Well, Penny anyway. bulloney Oct 2014 #222

I don't know who Francis is worshiping... Orsino Oct 2014 #147

He is a Jesuit BlindTiresias Oct 2014 #158

The rector in my town when I was a kid was a Jesuit who trained as a physicist. ColesCountyDem Oct 2014 #157

---Pope better watch his ass. Republican will try to impeach him for blasphemy. Hoppy Oct 2014 #159

Holy crap, who is this guy!? Christians can believe in evolution? Pat will have some words on this! Rex Oct 2014 #180

Why is this a big deal? Benedict believed in evolution, so did John Paul II. beam me up scottie Oct 2014 #182

This is nothing really new . . . markpkessinger Oct 2014 #186

�God is not a divine being or a magician" quaker bill Oct 2014 #191

rofl...waiting for faux news to call him the anti christ SummerSnow Oct 2014 #192

The Pope is on the path of Atheism, good for him!!! Heather MC Oct 2014 #197

God is a concept vlyons Oct 2014 #203

Heaven is a truck Warren DeMontague Oct 2014 #228

I hope to go to Thugs Mansion when I die JonLP24 Oct 2014 #239

I attended a boarding school ran by nuns. Beacool Oct 2014 #207

I did not know Catholics accepted evolution Beringia Oct 2014 #208

They use the same math and science books everyone uses. ucrdem Oct 2014 #217

After those first three words, it's a lot of melodrama, isn't it? n/t jtuck004 Oct 2014 #212

The majority of Mainstream churches see no conflict between science and belief kmlisle Oct 2014 #213

I like him. does more good than harm. the_sly_pig Oct 2014 #214

The funny thing is that I'm beginning to wonder about evolution. ucrdem Oct 2014 #215

A hunch... gcomeau Oct 2014 #231

I'm not so sure about that data. ucrdem Oct 2014 #236

OK, so... gcomeau Oct 2014 #237

Thanks, I enjoyed. However. ucrdem Oct 2014 #238

With *certainty*... no. gcomeau Oct 2014 #241

" I have a feeling that particular theory might be hitting retirement age soon" seems to be based on muriel_volestrangler Oct 2014 #243

"or The Preservation of Favoured Races" is Darwin's subtitle. Look it up. nt ucrdem Nov 2014 #250

Your claims about evolution are still baseless, then muriel_volestrangler Nov 2014 #251

Darwin, 1871: "The descent of man, and selection in relation to sex." 1st ed. Vol. 1. Link: ucrdem Nov 2014 #252

Darwin, 1871: "The descent of man, and selection in relation to sex." 1st ed. Vol. 2. Link: ucrdem Nov 2014 #253

Darwin, 1872: "The expression of the emotions in man and animals." Link: ucrdem Nov 2014 #254

What are those links meant to do, here? We're talking about evolution muriel_volestrangler Nov 2014 #255

Because he spelled out his whole racist theory in the 1871 & 1872 texts. ucrdem Nov 2014 #256

Sounds like you're a creationist, then muriel_volestrangler Nov 2014 #257

Sounds like you're not reading the posts you're responding to. nt ucrdem Nov 2014 #258

You don't think humans evolved from other animals muriel_volestrangler Nov 2014 #259

I think I've expressed myself pretty clearly already. ucrdem Nov 2014 #260

All you've said is that you think the theory of evolution will soon be shown to be wrong muriel_volestrangler Nov 2014 #262

I have it on good authority that Darwin only changed his underwear twice a week Warren DeMontague Nov 2014 #273

"his wretched theory of evolution" ...it's a fucking FACT, dude. Warren DeMontague Nov 2014 #271

"in toto" means entire. Fact. nt ucrdem Nov 2014 #279

Again, the massive amounts of evidence- DNA, fossil, etc. points to only one answer. Warren DeMontague Nov 2014 #280

Sounds a bit like a religion, doesn't it? ucrdem Nov 2014 #290

No. It is the opposite of a religion, the opposite of dogma. Warren DeMontague Nov 2014 #291

Faith is a gift. ucrdem Nov 2014 #292

sigh. Warren DeMontague Nov 2014 #293

Think of it this way... Gloria Nov 2014 #282

Then why bother praying? Warren DeMontague Oct 2014 #216

Good for your digestion ucrdem Oct 2014 #218

I'm not the target market, so I'm not going to be doing either. Warren DeMontague Oct 2014 #219

All of the above I suppose, but there's also a short answer. ucrdem Oct 2014 #220

Which doesn't really address the nature of the intended recipient OF said prayers, or what the point Warren DeMontague Oct 2014 #225

Several possibilities Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #235

What makes you think phil89 Nov 2014 #288

To us, it's evidence Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #295

Are we absolutely sure Pope Francis isn't going to peel a latex mask off his face... TeamPooka Oct 2014 #221

Hardly new JonLP24 Oct 2014 #232

This is pretty much my own position Prophet 451 Oct 2014 #233

Liberal progress is always good. Every little bit helps Zorra Nov 2014 #249

This is becoming hilarious eom Shankapotomus Nov 2014 #265

THEN WHY DOES HE LOOK LIKE DAVID COPPERFIELD Warren DeMontague Nov 2014 #270

He does not! lindysalsagal Nov 2014 #274

Jerry Garcia Warren DeMontague Nov 2014 #275

OK, but this GOD, according to your church, seems to think women are inferior Gloria Nov 2014 #281