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sybylla

(8,461 posts)
159. Thank you for your efforts to clarify all of this.
Tue Nov 4, 2014, 03:35 PM
Nov 2014

I have spent a great deal of time in my state making the same arguments. I have observed recounts. I have worked the polls. I see all of the same things you do.

Unfortunately, I struggle just as hard to get people who care to care about the big stuff. This vote flipping, while it's a pain in ghe ass, is not the big stuff.

I think Rove and Co realized the Ohio 2004 tactics can only steal so many votes and to randys1 Nov 2014 #1
Yep, they stole the election in 2004 RobertEarl Nov 2014 #9
I greatly resent the accusation of Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #22
Dont ever dis Kelvin about voting backwoodsbob Nov 2014 #27
+1 cali Nov 2014 #146
-2 RobertEarl Nov 2014 #172
Not sure the motive of the OP but today we talk about GOTV and then we watch for vote stealing randys1 Nov 2014 #30
Exactly right RobertEarl Nov 2014 #40
I am sorry, no Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #79
Eh? RobertEarl Nov 2014 #125
He's not saying,in any way, that computers can't be hacked. SharonAnn Nov 2014 #130
Again, no, I have NEVER said computers cannot be hacked Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #143
You have been a tireless advocate of fair elections Generic Other Nov 2014 #203
Thank you for the kind words Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #205
fearless repubs aspirant Nov 2014 #181
My point is to concetrate on GOTV Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #78
GOTV GOTV randys1 Nov 2014 #152
Why are you here? hunter Nov 2014 #89
Show up and vote Aerows Nov 2014 #33
VOTE VOTE VOTE, take someone to the polls, please! YES YES YES randys1 Nov 2014 #39
+1000 valerief Nov 2014 #77
Then it's really piss poor calibration. hobbit709 Nov 2014 #2
These machines are over ten-twelve years old Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #4
With all due respect watoos Nov 2014 #50
Again, Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #70
Thank you for your efforts to clarify all of this. sybylla Nov 2014 #159
And folks seem to think that Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #161
I've worked on a touch screen from about 12 years ago Thav Nov 2014 #144
What I don't understand Mnpaul Nov 2014 #58
Please consider the logistics Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #72
Is ES&S still using MS Access on these machines? IDemo Nov 2014 #94
Last I looked, yes, though they Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #99
What if the audits weren't really random? FiveGoodMen Nov 2014 #176
I have been programming touchscreen operator interfaces for over 20 years and after initial.... yourout Nov 2014 #107
OK, sorry, but having played with these machines Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #112
Does the machine print the hardcopy where the user can see the printout of the vote? yourout Nov 2014 #113
If I can control what is on the display, I can control what is on the printer Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #114
Do they hand audit the Paper tape vs the electronic results? yourout Nov 2014 #116
The voter is supposed to compare what is on the screen with what is on the printer Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #119
This is the one factor that stands out to me IDemo Nov 2014 #117
Absolutely Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #121
Not meant as snark or opposition, but just curiousity... TinkerTot55 Nov 2014 #153
Last time I looked I saw Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #154
Yet another point I made and got slammed for. n/t Ms. Toad Nov 2014 #186
And if your clients used them only twice a year, how well do you think they would work? n/t eridani Nov 2014 #128
I have a touchscreen computer, also Warpy Nov 2014 #7
Actually scanning the news Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #20
?? One 2008 story of R to D switch, vs. several in each election of D to R switch. nt tblue37 Nov 2014 #28
Here is what I just pulled from the news Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #73
"claiming this evidence of fraud discourages people from voting at a time where we need every damn FSogol Nov 2014 #3
Well said. . . Journeyman Nov 2014 #5
Glad someone still remembers the Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #14
Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2014 #6
"Edwards wanted a recount and we all know what was done to him" demwing Nov 2014 #8
Well, that one didn't last long.... panader0 Nov 2014 #11
Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2014 #49
*Sigh* Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #12
True: Why flip 1 out of 20 votes or whatever, if you can simply... Beartracks Nov 2014 #25
Precisely Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #26
Glad to see you here backwoodsbob Nov 2014 #29
Thank you for the kind remark Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #76
Excellent - That Answered My Question Leith Nov 2014 #36
The funny thing was Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #80
Dang Leith Nov 2014 #111
machines make $$ for corporations. go back to hand paper and stop all this BS nt msongs Nov 2014 #10
You cannot count Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #16
My favorite would be for a special election for offices that wind up in DC SoCalDem Nov 2014 #131
Well, the problem is Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #141
I also read that 70% of votes in this election are on paper due to old machines which have fallen PeaceNikki Nov 2014 #13
Not completely accurate Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #17
I don't want to go back to paper I want to go back to people. zeemike Nov 2014 #47
I actually like our "everybody votes by mail" system. Liberal Veteran Nov 2014 #51
And then you run it through a scanning computer to get the count. zeemike Nov 2014 #54
And we get a decent voter turnout. And there IS a paper trail. Liberal Veteran Nov 2014 #56
People have optical scanners right in their head. zeemike Nov 2014 #60
Logistically...vote by mail works fine. Liberal Veteran Nov 2014 #62
Well how about this. zeemike Nov 2014 #65
It would be almost as easy (and certainly faster) to have three different companies scanning. Liberal Veteran Nov 2014 #69
Vote by mail is my preference Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #100
Sorry, but I must repectfully disagree Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #75
And I I must respectfully disagree zeemike Nov 2014 #96
I have certainly not said Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #98
Well I know it will not change...and no one will purpose an amendment to change it. zeemike Nov 2014 #105
You know what? Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #106
The problem is, the ballots are too complicated Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #68
People can't accurately count complex ballots over long periods of time eridani Nov 2014 #129
this is what we have in NENC ... littlewolf Nov 2014 #48
That system was great, unless the punchcard misfed Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #101
I agree ... Opscan is better, at the time that punch card system littlewolf Nov 2014 #127
The Florida system Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #142
It is accurate in that the votes are cast ON paper. PeaceNikki Nov 2014 #57
Absolutely, and there MUST Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #67
It's the law here in Wisconsin, too. PeaceNikki Nov 2014 #71
Paper with OpScan was found to be quite accurate Mnpaul Nov 2014 #61
What I meant was that it wasn't accurate Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #66
Ahhh. Someone who knows what they're talking about. A delicious rarity. SunSeeker Nov 2014 #15
You are welcome Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #18
I hope you don't. DeadLetterOffice Nov 2014 #21
Hell, you're one of the good guys! nc4bo Nov 2014 #63
This is the problem with politicians Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #64
K&R Go Vols Nov 2014 #19
Thank you. GeorgeGist Nov 2014 #23
A breath of logical, fresh air. Butterbean Nov 2014 #24
And really, if you were going to flip votes through software, would you make it visible? Liberal Veteran Nov 2014 #31
Precisely!!! Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #81
Not with a paper trail you wouldn't. yourout Nov 2014 #109
Again, Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #122
Last question....are there audits to compare paper tape to electronic totals? yourout Nov 2014 #124
Yes, the law requires random audits that compare Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #145
Diebold changed its name in 2007 to Premier Election Solutions 99th_Monkey Nov 2014 #32
I don't recall one reported instance of "D"s flipping to "R"s. MEA CULPA! I MEANT: R to D!!!!!!!!!!! WinkyDink Nov 2014 #34
Easily found. onenote Nov 2014 #43
Google is your friend Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #82
Really? I never got a birthday card! WinkyDink Nov 2014 #132
Well, Google is rather busy Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #140
All points well taken here. However this is about our elections, no room for failure of any kind. YOHABLO Nov 2014 #35
We have limited resources Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #83
Somebody had to stop mstinamotorcity2 Nov 2014 #37
Thank you for the work you have done, Kelvin. Dont call me Shirley Nov 2014 #38
- Takket Nov 2014 #41
I really didn't mind all the effort fighting Diebold Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #84
So it is not fraud but a poorly calibrated touch screen. zeemike Nov 2014 #42
And it's happening to the Republicans too is the issue he's raising Savannahmann Nov 2014 #52
The more complicated the system is the more chances there are to game it. zeemike Nov 2014 #55
Absoutely true Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #87
Well for one thing it don't matter if they show it. zeemike Nov 2014 #93
Occam's Razor Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #86
And our politicians will say nothing and we will do nothing to change it... nc4bo Nov 2014 #59
When we were fighting against paperless ballots Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #92
Um... no Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #85
And never let incompetence be a cover for treachery. zeemike Nov 2014 #91
One more time Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #97
And you can always find a way to make a conspiracy not make sense. zeemike Nov 2014 #102
Actually everyone knows how Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #104
Yes I know...I knew a pro gambler zeemike Nov 2014 #110
complete truth aspirant Nov 2014 #184
The legal margin of victory is either a plurality Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #193
As an IT/repair person, I greatly admire your work and perseverance for accuracy in our.. BlueJazz Nov 2014 #44
I am just a jackleg database programmer, Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #88
Who is Bev Harris? Helen Borg Nov 2014 #45
Gosh that is a question Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #90
Thanks. Helen Borg Nov 2014 #133
That, I have no idea Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #139
Oh, I had not realized that... Helen Borg Nov 2014 #147
Du rec and kick! n/t zappaman Nov 2014 #46
Kevin, this native North Carolinian wants to say a big thank you for all you've done. ladyVet Nov 2014 #53
Thank you Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #74
Absolutely agree with this. The widespread fears of vote-flipping are CTs at their worst. randome Nov 2014 #95
I wrote this back in 2006 Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #103
Great thread (and OP). At the risk of opening a can of worms or ripping off a scab, do KingCharlemagne Nov 2014 #108
There were suspicious numbers Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #115
Good points all. People in Ohio waited in line for hours and hours to vote in some KingCharlemagne Nov 2014 #118
I am wary of consiracies as explanations, Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #120
Bravo! As long as we acknowledge that there are occasional conspiracies in history -- the KingCharlemagne Nov 2014 #123
Yes, they do exist Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #138
Yup. Proving intent is always very tricky... Helen Borg Nov 2014 #134
That you will get no argument from me Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #137
The obvious question-why did they skip 2008 and 2012? maced666 Nov 2014 #126
Well, you know Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #150
What are the facts at the links of "R" flipping to "D" provided by the OP, (SEE POST # 82)? WinkyDink Nov 2014 #135
And this, to me, as a computer tech Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #149
I've seen issues in Florida that are different than you describe, but may be manipulation. Sancho Nov 2014 #136
Let me take these one at a time Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #148
Thanks...hmmmm.... Sancho Nov 2014 #157
Thanks for the clarification Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #160
I agree we need better laws... Sancho Nov 2014 #162
But it can be done Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #163
Thanks for Duval Nov 2014 #151
I believe that only Guilford and Mecklenberg Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #155
Kelvin, I just found this Duval Nov 2014 #156
Thanks Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #158
If not for you and your wife Duval Nov 2014 #164
Here's the breakdown by county: marions ghost Nov 2014 #195
Thank you Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #196
It looks to me like they are phasing them out marions ghost Nov 2014 #201
They are not popular because they cause problems Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #204
The country lost big money on that swindle.... marions ghost Nov 2014 #207
When recalibration isn't the solution Fly by night Nov 2014 #165
And you will get no argument from me on that Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #166
I was 2 years later to this dance ... Fly by night Nov 2014 #167
You will never sell them on hand-counting Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #168
If I'm serious about voting reforms ...? Fly by night Nov 2014 #180
national expert? aspirant Nov 2014 #187
Go back and read what I said Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #188
That's like saying raising awareness about cancer discourages doctor visits. True Blue Door Nov 2014 #169
No, claiming all the doctors are secretly Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #170
How does it fail basic logic? True Blue Door Nov 2014 #171
Again, I have expained this about five times in this thread, but here goes number six Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #173
There is some logic to what you say. True Blue Door Nov 2014 #174
When I pursued this issue Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #175
Fair enough, but it won't do to be complacent about any angle. True Blue Door Nov 2014 #178
Certainly true, Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #179
The Testimony of a Programmer fredamae Nov 2014 #177
This would be the guy who claimed he rigged Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #190
I so agree that voter suppression is real and is growing. deminks Nov 2014 #182
True Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #191
I don't know. I would love to believe this, but I will never forget the 2004 election. Vinca Nov 2014 #183
If I had to make a stab at why we lost Ohio Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #189
I don't recall vote flipping on the actual voting machine as being the issue. Vinca Nov 2014 #197
Again, as long as there is no paper Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #198
It makes you wonder why the machines and software aren't allowed to be examined by the citizenry. Vinca Nov 2014 #199
Again, some states permit/require it Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #200
Thank you for saying what I got lambasted for saying a couple of weeks ago. Ms. Toad Nov 2014 #185
To those who insist there's still a real conspiracy here... brooklynite Nov 2014 #192
And a little actual evidence Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #194
I am against electronic counting for reasons not yet expressed. Half-Century Man Nov 2014 #202
I would have to see some empirical evidence of that Kelvin Mace Nov 2014 #206
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