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BlancheSplanchnik

(20,219 posts)
36. Women ALWAYS put a higher premium on nonmonetary reward
Tue Apr 17, 2012, 07:54 PM
Apr 2012
, and go to college to get these jobs. Men on the other hand put a higher premium on money, and are more likely to choose jobs which are more dangerous, difficult and are less rewarding in exchange for that higher pay.


Oh come on, lumberjack...you have such an obvious chip on your shoulder, always needing to prove that men are bigger victims than women.

Maybe you've been victimized in your life by women. It seems so, and you have our sympathy.
Still, One bad woman doesn't make your tarring of all women and women's issues true.
Your playing with facts is getting tiresome.

Here is a truckload of references rebutting your claims, but based on your behavior over the time I've seen you, my guess is that you'll ignore it all.


http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/01/fact-check-obama-and-equal-pay-for-women/
In 2010, the most recent data available, women on average earned 77.4 cents for every dollar earned by men holding the same full-time, year-round job, according to Census data analyzed by the National Committee on Pay Equity.
The gap was virtually unchanged from 2009, when it was 77 percent and 2008 when it stood at 77.1 percent, before the law was enacted.
Pay inequity remains most pronounced among women of color. African-American women made 67.7 percent of what was earned by men in 2010, according to the Census, while Hispanic women earned 58.7 percent, both figures largely unchanged from the year before.



Unpaid work is largely done by
women:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_the_workforceAlthough access to paying occupations (the "workforce&quot has been and remains unequal in many occupations and places around the world, scholars sometimes distinguish between "work" and "paying work," including in their analysis a broader spectrum of labor such as uncompensated household work, childcare, eldercare, and family subsistence farming.


http://www.now.org/issues/economic/factsheet.html <----much more information at link
+Women's median pay was less than men's in each and every one of the 20 industries and 25 occupation groups surveyed by the U.S. Census Bureau in 2007.3 Even men working in female-dominated occupations tend to earn more than women working in those same occupations.4
+A study by the American Association of University Women (AAUW) examined how the wage gap affects college graduates. Wage disparities kick in shortly after college graduation, when women and men should, absent discrimination, be on a level playing field. One year after graduating college, women are paid on average only 80 percent of their male counterparts' wages, and during the next 10 years, women's wages fall even further behind, dropping to only 69 percent of men's earnings ten years after college. According to the AAUW report, even after "[c]ontrolling for hours, occupation, parenthood, and other factors normally associated with pay, college-educated women still earn less than their male peers earn. . . . A large portion of the
gender pay gap is not explained by women's choices or characteristics." 7


http://www.thenation.com/article/166468/one-mancession-later-are-women-really-victors-new-economy <----much more information at link
...But anyone who declares that women have “won” the new economy is premature at best. Women may be over-represented in growing sectors, but those jobs pay poorly, offer few benefits, come with grudging work and provide little opportunity for advancement. The edge on wages experienced by young women evaporates as they progress in their careers. When women do get to middle management, they’re paid less than men and they struggle to advance much further up the ladder. And women with children are left far behind.

So what happened to the “mancession” once the recovery officially began in June 2009? Women’s unemployment has continued to rise as men have gained their jobs back. Women gained less than 8 percent of the 1.9 million jobs added, and now men’s and women’s unemployment rates have converged at 7.7 percent. Public sector layoffs have hit women particularly hard. Across the country, women have lost 414,000 government jobs, many due to teacher layoffs. As of October, 300,000 educator jobs had been lost, accounting for over half of those lost at the local government level.

Women have been losing ground across private-sector industries too. Secretaries and administrative assistants, both female-dominated positions, have been laid off in droves. As employers ask their workers to do more work for the same or less pay in tough times, secretaries have become disposable. Women had lost 925,000 of these jobs as of July, but men had gained 204,000.

But women were stuck in disposable, low-income jobs long before the recession. One of the trends that got Rosin excited is that women dominate many of the industries projected to grow over the next decade, including retail sales and healthcare. It’s true that women disproportionately hold retail sales, home health and personal care jobs, all of which are set to see the most growth. But these jobs not only pay poorly and have few benefits; they are also unstable and are poorly protected by labor laws or unionization.


http://collegetimes.us/10-surprising-statistics-on-women-in-the-workplace/ <----much more at link
3. The more education a woman has, the greater the disparity in her wages. This certainly doesn’t mean women should shy away from professional positions, but they should be aware that they may have to battle harder for equal pay. Women in professional specialty occupations were found to earn just 72.7% of what men in the same position earned, and women in upper level executive, administrative and managerial occupations earned even less at 72.3%. If you compare this against the average of 77.5%, the numbers speak for themselves, and this graphic from the New York Times makes it even easier to see.

4. Women may work longer to receive the promotions that provide access to higher pay. One example provided by the National Center for Education Statistics shows that women often have to work three years longer in a teaching position to be promoted to a principal than their male counterparts. Some studies suggest that this is because women and men adapt different strategies when it comes to management and pursuing promotions, yet other studies connect it less to work and more to gender-based biases.


http://www.theglasshammer.com/news/2010/12/21/why-do-working-moms-make-less/
....according to the Cornell study Getting a Job: Is There a Motherhood Penalty, working mothers aren’t just getting paid less; they’re also being perceived differently. The study’s experiments found that mothers were penalized on a host of measures, including perceived competence and recommended starting salary.

Men were not penalized for, and sometimes benefited from, being a parent. The study actually showed that employers discriminate against mothers, but not against fathers. According to Robert Drago, Research Director at the Institute for Women’s Policy Research, these differences are a reflection of an even bigger problem.

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But it buys a 1%'er another house. liberal N proud Apr 2012 #1
surprised this post isn't getting more love nashville_brook Apr 2012 #2
that's a pretty typical reaction to women's issues BlancheSplanchnik Apr 2012 #4
Or maybe is much ado about nothing taught_me_patience Apr 2012 #6
Hey I just got home from work varelse Apr 2012 #47
:) glad this got kicked -- ! nashville_brook Apr 2012 #54
I thought the 77% myth has long been debunked taught_me_patience Apr 2012 #3
Feel free to "trot" out the old debunking arguments... please. Please do so. nt riderinthestorm Apr 2012 #5
Here you go taught_me_patience Apr 2012 #7
Not debunked... Luminous Animal Apr 2012 #8
You've actually proved my point taught_me_patience Apr 2012 #10
I am not going to lend credence to a report commissioned by the Bush Admin and done by a Rand Corp Luminous Animal Apr 2012 #13
+10000000000000 nashville_brook Apr 2012 #55
Your link explained nothing taught_me_patience Apr 2012 #66
Actually, most studies up to this Randian pretty much supported this stat. Luminous Animal Apr 2012 #70
Your own article doesn't support the stat, if you read it carefully. They blazon "77%," but read HiPointDem Apr 2012 #79
It's not a rand spin-off, it's headed by a former rand employee. somewhat different. HiPointDem Apr 2012 #67
= 60% of that "77% gap" is an artifact. I think that's a debunking. HiPointDem Apr 2012 #11
as if those factors were dismissable anyway iverglas Apr 2012 #14
Yep... Luminous Animal Apr 2012 #16
This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Apr 2012 #32
too bad iverglas Apr 2012 #38
Ugly is right. Warren DeMontague Apr 2012 #39
This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Apr 2012 #40
self delete hlthe2b Apr 2012 #42
This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Apr 2012 #44
You are right.... Sorry.. hlthe2b Apr 2012 #45
This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Apr 2012 #46
Some stay at home parents are like that. I know, I used to cater to Luminous Animal Apr 2012 #49
This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Apr 2012 #50
I agree with the 1st paragraph 100%. Luminous Animal Apr 2012 #56
This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Apr 2012 #72
Doesn't matter what you believe, she says it was her choice and there's no particular reason HiPointDem Apr 2012 #80
Why do men take jobs which yield an 1150% greater risk of death? n/t lumberjack_jeff Apr 2012 #17
And women? I'm a female farmer - one of the most dangerous occupations on any list. nt riderinthestorm Apr 2012 #18
but men disproportionately perform the most dangerous jobs. that's just a fact. HiPointDem Apr 2012 #60
I'm sure you have an answer, and a source iverglas Apr 2012 #23
What relevance does any of the stuff you posted hold? lumberjack_jeff Apr 2012 #26
that's for me to know iverglas Apr 2012 #28
oh, and by the way iverglas Apr 2012 #29
the actual source of your pretty pic has some more meaningful info iverglas Apr 2012 #33
Do you have a link for that? riderinthestorm Apr 2012 #34
Mining, farming, fishing, roofing, pay more than comparably skilled safe jobs. lumberjack_jeff Apr 2012 #37
Link to factual back up your statements in your other post? riderinthestorm Apr 2012 #43
. lumberjack_jeff Apr 2012 #52
You made the statement, back it up. nt riderinthestorm Apr 2012 #53
I did. lumberjack_jeff Apr 2012 #61
You should commission a study... LanternWaste Apr 2012 #92
This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Apr 2012 #35
is there a diffference between your behaviour in this thread iverglas Apr 2012 #41
This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Apr 2012 #90
Something wrong with this statistic. For most people, 37 years is about close to a lifetime's work HiPointDem Apr 2012 #9
In 2010 women who worked full time, year round, still only earned 77 percent of what men earned Luminous Animal Apr 2012 #15
"average" HiPointDem Apr 2012 #20
I have no idea what you are talking about... Luminous Animal Apr 2012 #22
77% accounts for neither occupation nor overtime nor experience. lumberjack_jeff Apr 2012 #27
Bureau of Labor Statistics says 81%. HiPointDem Apr 2012 #63
It's from the "Mitt Romney fun with math" school of statistics. lumberjack_jeff Apr 2012 #19
And my sister washes shit off of old people. Luminous Animal Apr 2012 #24
And the men that do the same job (I'm assuming nurses' aide) get the same lousy pay. HiPointDem Apr 2012 #65
Well, there is the rub. A traditional man's job (education and training) will command Luminous Animal Apr 2012 #68
and that's a question that "women only make 77% of what men do" does nothing to advance HiPointDem Apr 2012 #69
Actually, it does. And is the root of the parity movement. Luminous Animal Apr 2012 #71
Equal pay for equal work is already the law of the land, and so is non-discrimination in hiring. HiPointDem Apr 2012 #74
and that's where i disagree with you, when you put wage differences in job categories down to HiPointDem Apr 2012 #73
How did "traditional mens jobs" become that? lumberjack_jeff Apr 2012 #89
pretty funny iverglas Apr 2012 #25
Women ALWAYS put a higher premium on nonmonetary reward BlancheSplanchnik Apr 2012 #36
One at a time. lumberjack_jeff Apr 2012 #51
"holding the same full-time, year-round job" is a misrepresentation, intentional or otherwise. HiPointDem Apr 2012 #81
yes, thank you! BlancheSplanchnik Apr 2012 #84
I agree that nurses aides are underpaid for what they do. That said, they *did* chose to do it. HiPointDem Apr 2012 #93
Your male friend doesn't "deserve" to get paid more than women. nt Liquorice Apr 2012 #64
He doesn't. The job does. nt lumberjack_jeff Apr 2012 #85
Women don't need to feed families. Iris Apr 2012 #12
I didn't say anything like that. They *do* need to feed families, and half of them do it on abysmal HiPointDem Apr 2012 #21
I was replying to the OP. Iris Apr 2012 #30
no problem, my mistake. HiPointDem Apr 2012 #58
Both kinds of disparities exist. undeterred Apr 2012 #31
The disparity between the bottom 20% and the top 20% is larger and has larger ramifications for HiPointDem Apr 2012 #57
The problem being laundry_queen Apr 2012 #75
Yes, they're going to hire the woman, but it could just as easily be an h1b male or anyone else HiPointDem Apr 2012 #78
mkay. laundry_queen Apr 2012 #88
I recently finished reading "Women Don't Ask" varelse Apr 2012 #48
Damn. lonestarnot Apr 2012 #59
Yeah. Rex Apr 2012 #62
Now that I read the entire article, I see how duplicitous it is. While trumpeting the lifetime HiPointDem Apr 2012 #76
I didn't know there were wage gap deniers. And to find one on the DU of all places! nt Liquorice Apr 2012 #82
show me where i deny a wage gap. HiPointDem Apr 2012 #83
Sure. There are some honest people here, too.nt lumberjack_jeff Apr 2012 #87
Nobody in the thread is denying a wage gap taught_me_patience Apr 2012 #91
Male full time workers also work more overtime. lumberjack_jeff Apr 2012 #86
k&r Starry Messenger Apr 2012 #77
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