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Showing Original Post only (View all)Why one of my people refused to vote: [View all]
Here's a Facebook exchange with one of my millennials who sat out:
(OCT 29) Me: Not voting isn't rebellion, it's surrender!
THEM: The exact opposite is true. The electoral system is the illusion of democracy, and by voting all we're doing is reinforcing the legitimacy of that illusion. Given that the corporate elite own both major parties and the entire political establishment, who you vote for doesn't matter. The same elite class retains power regardless of who wins the elections that are set up as a distraction; the illusion that we as individuals have a say in the government. Voting is surrender. The only effective way of influencing change is the building of mass movements.
ME: Whatever system you might set up will not work, if nobody votes. Fact is that the ruling elites rule tightens when fewer people go to the poles.
THEM: Again, the opposite is true. The power of the ruling elite is strengthened when you DO vote, because you're playing their little game they set up to distract everyone from the fact that their class is running the show regardless. Instead of voting, we need to be figuring out how to remove that class from power, and you can't do that while participating in their fictional elections. Just look at what happened with Obama. He was one of the most liberal members of the senate, and once he took power under this system he became just like Bush, or even worse in some ways. Voting means nothing if the system is fraudulent. And given that the system is fraudulent, voting actually makes it more difficult to create positive change, because by voting you're giving credibility to the clown show that's designed to distract everyone from the truth. Rebellion is the only answer, and you can't rebel against a system you're actively participating in and legitimizing.
Think of it like a game of Monopoly. The game board is the system. And since the capitalist elite invented the game, they start off with 5x as much money as you, and every time they pass Go they get 5x as much money as you. Also, because they own the system, they already have hotels on 90% of the board at the start of the game. And they say to you... "If you want some control over the system you have to play this game I invented." But the game is rigged. You can't win. Within a few moves you're bankrupt and the elite are just richer and more powerful than they were before. In a situation like that Monopoly game the only logical solution is to refuse to play, and flip the board over so you can establish a fair game; a game that isn't rigged by the corporate elite.
ME: This ballot initiative is on the Cali ballot this year: "CISS Proposition 47 Criminal Trials - Reduces the classification of most nonviolent crimes from a felony to a misdemeanor".
In my view, that's a positive step forward if it passes
Now vote!
THEM: Laws that pass can always be undone in time. Just look at how the civil rights act is currently being gutted. Voting isn't the answer. The answer is a new system of government. We can't reform our way out of this.
ME: I suppose you prefer Cannabis users be imprisoned too... because that's how cannabis laws have been reformed - by people voting!
And then there is the minimum wage - republicans want to eliminate it, Democrats are trying to increase it!
THEM: yes, there are some differences between the parties, but the system is totally owned and controlled by the corporate elite. To them it's just plan A or plan B, and they're fine with either one. And they want us to think it's so important to choose between the parties because that's how they retain power over us. It's like, if you're in jail and they institute some kind of prisoner election to determine the conditions inside the prison. They don't really care about the results as long as we stay behind bars. What I want is to escape, to get out of prison entirely, not to focus on tiny reforms that keep us distracted just enough to prevent us from breaking out. We can't be free if we keep playing their rigged game that keeps us imprisoned. What we need to be doing is planning a jail break.
ME: I understand your point. But you not voting is exactly what they want you to do. Watch this short clip from 1980:
Paul Weyrich - "I don't want everybody to vote" (Goo Goo)
Paul Weyrich, "father" of the right-wing movement and...
THEM: That argument is ridiculous on the face of itself, because it assumes that there is some sort of substantial moral difference between the parties. My position is that there isn't. And, again, the exact opposite of this argument is actually true. VOTING is what the establishment WANTS you to do, because it keeps you invested in the system, rather than working to undermine and oppose the system. Voting gives the system the credibility and legitimacy that it NEEDS to maintain its power. If we all stopped voting because we realized that it was doing nothing for us, then the establishment capitalist elite would freak the heck out, because their system would be in danger of losing its "right" to rule over us. Again, you can not oppose a system if you're busy supporting it.
ME: If voting is so unimportant , then why are the Koch brothers spending billions to elect candidates that want to eliminate the minimum wage, social security, and Medicare?
And there's more than just candidates at stake, there are ballot issues that will legalize cannabis, raise the minimum wage, force insurance companies to lower rates, and reduce non-violent felonies to misdemeanors at stake.
THEM: The Koch brothers are part of the elite ruling class. Their class will retain power regardless of who wins the elections. They just happen to have a strong preference between Plan A and Plan A1. Others in their class might be more willing to make some small economic concessions to the poor, but that isn't really a major factor to the overall economic system. What I mean is, yes, raising the minimum wage would help poor people somewhat, but it doesn't change the fact that we live under a system in which the rich exploit the poor for profit. I want an end to that exploitation altogether, not just institute some kind of essentially irreverent reform that doesn't fundamentally change anything.
THEM: The exact opposite is true. The electoral system is the illusion of democracy, and by voting all we're doing is reinforcing the legitimacy of that illusion. Given that the corporate elite own both major parties and the entire political establishment, who you vote for doesn't matter. The same elite class retains power regardless of who wins the elections that are set up as a distraction; the illusion that we as individuals have a say in the government. Voting is surrender. The only effective way of influencing change is the building of mass movements.
ME: Whatever system you might set up will not work, if nobody votes. Fact is that the ruling elites rule tightens when fewer people go to the poles.
THEM: Again, the opposite is true. The power of the ruling elite is strengthened when you DO vote, because you're playing their little game they set up to distract everyone from the fact that their class is running the show regardless. Instead of voting, we need to be figuring out how to remove that class from power, and you can't do that while participating in their fictional elections. Just look at what happened with Obama. He was one of the most liberal members of the senate, and once he took power under this system he became just like Bush, or even worse in some ways. Voting means nothing if the system is fraudulent. And given that the system is fraudulent, voting actually makes it more difficult to create positive change, because by voting you're giving credibility to the clown show that's designed to distract everyone from the truth. Rebellion is the only answer, and you can't rebel against a system you're actively participating in and legitimizing.
Think of it like a game of Monopoly. The game board is the system. And since the capitalist elite invented the game, they start off with 5x as much money as you, and every time they pass Go they get 5x as much money as you. Also, because they own the system, they already have hotels on 90% of the board at the start of the game. And they say to you... "If you want some control over the system you have to play this game I invented." But the game is rigged. You can't win. Within a few moves you're bankrupt and the elite are just richer and more powerful than they were before. In a situation like that Monopoly game the only logical solution is to refuse to play, and flip the board over so you can establish a fair game; a game that isn't rigged by the corporate elite.
ME: This ballot initiative is on the Cali ballot this year: "CISS Proposition 47 Criminal Trials - Reduces the classification of most nonviolent crimes from a felony to a misdemeanor".
In my view, that's a positive step forward if it passes

Now vote!
THEM: Laws that pass can always be undone in time. Just look at how the civil rights act is currently being gutted. Voting isn't the answer. The answer is a new system of government. We can't reform our way out of this.
ME: I suppose you prefer Cannabis users be imprisoned too... because that's how cannabis laws have been reformed - by people voting!
And then there is the minimum wage - republicans want to eliminate it, Democrats are trying to increase it!
THEM: yes, there are some differences between the parties, but the system is totally owned and controlled by the corporate elite. To them it's just plan A or plan B, and they're fine with either one. And they want us to think it's so important to choose between the parties because that's how they retain power over us. It's like, if you're in jail and they institute some kind of prisoner election to determine the conditions inside the prison. They don't really care about the results as long as we stay behind bars. What I want is to escape, to get out of prison entirely, not to focus on tiny reforms that keep us distracted just enough to prevent us from breaking out. We can't be free if we keep playing their rigged game that keeps us imprisoned. What we need to be doing is planning a jail break.
ME: I understand your point. But you not voting is exactly what they want you to do. Watch this short clip from 1980:
Paul Weyrich - "I don't want everybody to vote" (Goo Goo)
Paul Weyrich, "father" of the right-wing movement and...
THEM: That argument is ridiculous on the face of itself, because it assumes that there is some sort of substantial moral difference between the parties. My position is that there isn't. And, again, the exact opposite of this argument is actually true. VOTING is what the establishment WANTS you to do, because it keeps you invested in the system, rather than working to undermine and oppose the system. Voting gives the system the credibility and legitimacy that it NEEDS to maintain its power. If we all stopped voting because we realized that it was doing nothing for us, then the establishment capitalist elite would freak the heck out, because their system would be in danger of losing its "right" to rule over us. Again, you can not oppose a system if you're busy supporting it.
ME: If voting is so unimportant , then why are the Koch brothers spending billions to elect candidates that want to eliminate the minimum wage, social security, and Medicare?
And there's more than just candidates at stake, there are ballot issues that will legalize cannabis, raise the minimum wage, force insurance companies to lower rates, and reduce non-violent felonies to misdemeanors at stake.
THEM: The Koch brothers are part of the elite ruling class. Their class will retain power regardless of who wins the elections. They just happen to have a strong preference between Plan A and Plan A1. Others in their class might be more willing to make some small economic concessions to the poor, but that isn't really a major factor to the overall economic system. What I mean is, yes, raising the minimum wage would help poor people somewhat, but it doesn't change the fact that we live under a system in which the rich exploit the poor for profit. I want an end to that exploitation altogether, not just institute some kind of essentially irreverent reform that doesn't fundamentally change anything.
Well, that's the gist of it.
What I get from it is that people stayed home because they could not see a clear difference between the parties.
This is why centrist, third-way policies are a disaster.
Let me say, this is from a highly intelligent, well educated millennial with a good, upper middle class income, who works at a company that is a household name to us all.
94 replies
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This is not a stupid low info person. They have been alienated by third way Dems.
grahamhgreen
Nov 2014
#10
That won't do it. How bout we fight for some real change. Kill the Keystone XL, and the TPP?
grahamhgreen
Nov 2014
#25
Well, that's why we're losing. You don't give a fuck about what brings our team to the polls.
grahamhgreen
Nov 2014
#27
You really don't get it? "Centrism" (selling out) is losing votes for us. Understand?
grahamhgreen
Nov 2014
#37
Oh yes....I DO get it....I got it all along....I am the realist...I KNEW the American public was
VanillaRhapsody
Nov 2014
#39
Obama asked us to push him. Saying no to the TPP, or Keystone, is easy. No? Well,
grahamhgreen
Nov 2014
#67
Why would ANYONE want to vote for the neo-con agenda you just defended in your post?
grahamhgreen
Nov 2014
#73
Thanks! I'm sure that they do, which I why I try so hard to convince them of their errors:)
grahamhgreen
Nov 2014
#68
So, by not voting, your friend denied the election the quorum needed to be legitimate?
gratuitous
Nov 2014
#5
I just don't see how it will crash, at least not until there's nothing left to save...
polichick
Nov 2014
#15
it would be nice. But when have Americans done anything with foresight since the 60s?
Katashi_itto
Nov 2014
#16
No. It won't arise "magically" your looking at a lot of pain misery and death ahead.
Katashi_itto
Nov 2014
#41
Well, a "new system" won't be allowed to arise before that. Hence the "lone nuts," etc...
villager
Nov 2014
#53
While, theoretically, boycotting an election as a form of protest might work ...
surrealAmerican
Nov 2014
#19
That is exactly IT! Thank you! Boycotting elections to make changes to our system will ONLY
BlueCaliDem
Nov 2014
#84
problem is, even if only the elite bothered to vote, that doesn't help his cause in the slightest
0rganism
Nov 2014
#20
Ick. I'm deleting this thread. The responses on this thread are incredibly sanctimonious and
liberal_at_heart
Nov 2014
#31
How will you govern when the other party is in power? Or do you consider their policies to your bene
grahamhgreen
Nov 2014
#36
I agree, although my goal is to figure out how to get them to vote Dem again!
grahamhgreen
Nov 2014
#76
Polls, not poles. I think student loan problems have already sent too many to the poles
aikoaiko
Nov 2014
#91
The plan is to make the elite "freak the heck out" so they'll stop exploiting the poor?
Orangepeel
Nov 2014
#40
The corporate elite that your millennial so despises would be delighted at this exchange.
Jim Lane
Nov 2014
#42
It's not a dorm room, its a workplace. Should be easy for Dems to give these people a reason to vote
grahamhgreen
Nov 2014
#60
Are any of your millennials not white, straight men from affluent backgrounds?
Bluenorthwest
Nov 2014
#48
It's not about them. It's about us not providing them something worth voting for.
grahamhgreen
Nov 2014
#58
Tell it to the Marines. I'm a gay person. We got organized in order to take something that
Bluenorthwest
Nov 2014
#61
No political fundraising on Kickstarter, which is for creative projects....
Bluenorthwest
Nov 2014
#63
"get in the face of their opponent and call them out on their lies and hypocrisy." That's it.
grahamhgreen
Nov 2014
#65
Doesn't matter. With them, we won in 2008. When we alienate them, we lose.
grahamhgreen
Nov 2014
#71