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grahamhgreen

(15,741 posts)
Wed Nov 5, 2014, 04:03 PM Nov 2014

Why one of my people refused to vote: [View all]

Here's a Facebook exchange with one of my millennials who sat out:

(OCT 29) Me: Not voting isn't rebellion, it's surrender!

THEM: The exact opposite is true. The electoral system is the illusion of democracy, and by voting all we're doing is reinforcing the legitimacy of that illusion. Given that the corporate elite own both major parties and the entire political establishment, who you vote for doesn't matter. The same elite class retains power regardless of who wins the elections that are set up as a distraction; the illusion that we as individuals have a say in the government. Voting is surrender. The only effective way of influencing change is the building of mass movements.

ME: Whatever system you might set up will not work, if nobody votes. Fact is that the ruling elites rule tightens when fewer people go to the poles.

THEM: Again, the opposite is true. The power of the ruling elite is strengthened when you DO vote, because you're playing their little game they set up to distract everyone from the fact that their class is running the show regardless. Instead of voting, we need to be figuring out how to remove that class from power, and you can't do that while participating in their fictional elections. Just look at what happened with Obama. He was one of the most liberal members of the senate, and once he took power under this system he became just like Bush, or even worse in some ways. Voting means nothing if the system is fraudulent. And given that the system is fraudulent, voting actually makes it more difficult to create positive change, because by voting you're giving credibility to the clown show that's designed to distract everyone from the truth. Rebellion is the only answer, and you can't rebel against a system you're actively participating in and legitimizing.

Think of it like a game of Monopoly. The game board is the system. And since the capitalist elite invented the game, they start off with 5x as much money as you, and every time they pass Go they get 5x as much money as you. Also, because they own the system, they already have hotels on 90% of the board at the start of the game. And they say to you... "If you want some control over the system you have to play this game I invented." But the game is rigged. You can't win. Within a few moves you're bankrupt and the elite are just richer and more powerful than they were before. In a situation like that Monopoly game the only logical solution is to refuse to play, and flip the board over so you can establish a fair game; a game that isn't rigged by the corporate elite.

ME: This ballot initiative is on the Cali ballot this year: "CISS Proposition 47 Criminal Trials - Reduces the classification of most nonviolent crimes from a felony to a misdemeanor".

In my view, that's a positive step forward if it passes

Now vote!

THEM: Laws that pass can always be undone in time. Just look at how the civil rights act is currently being gutted. Voting isn't the answer. The answer is a new system of government. We can't reform our way out of this.

ME: I suppose you prefer Cannabis users be imprisoned too... because that's how cannabis laws have been reformed - by people voting!

And then there is the minimum wage - republicans want to eliminate it, Democrats are trying to increase it!

THEM: yes, there are some differences between the parties, but the system is totally owned and controlled by the corporate elite. To them it's just plan A or plan B, and they're fine with either one. And they want us to think it's so important to choose between the parties because that's how they retain power over us. It's like, if you're in jail and they institute some kind of prisoner election to determine the conditions inside the prison. They don't really care about the results as long as we stay behind bars. What I want is to escape, to get out of prison entirely, not to focus on tiny reforms that keep us distracted just enough to prevent us from breaking out. We can't be free if we keep playing their rigged game that keeps us imprisoned. What we need to be doing is planning a jail break.

ME: I understand your point. But you not voting is exactly what they want you to do. Watch this short clip from 1980:



Paul Weyrich - "I don't want everybody to vote" (Goo Goo)
Paul Weyrich, "father" of the right-wing movement and...

THEM: That argument is ridiculous on the face of itself, because it assumes that there is some sort of substantial moral difference between the parties. My position is that there isn't. And, again, the exact opposite of this argument is actually true. VOTING is what the establishment WANTS you to do, because it keeps you invested in the system, rather than working to undermine and oppose the system. Voting gives the system the credibility and legitimacy that it NEEDS to maintain its power. If we all stopped voting because we realized that it was doing nothing for us, then the establishment capitalist elite would freak the heck out, because their system would be in danger of losing its "right" to rule over us. Again, you can not oppose a system if you're busy supporting it.

ME: If voting is so unimportant , then why are the Koch brothers spending billions to elect candidates that want to eliminate the minimum wage, social security, and Medicare?

And there's more than just candidates at stake, there are ballot issues that will legalize cannabis, raise the minimum wage, force insurance companies to lower rates, and reduce non-violent felonies to misdemeanors at stake.

THEM: The Koch brothers are part of the elite ruling class. Their class will retain power regardless of who wins the elections. They just happen to have a strong preference between Plan A and Plan A1. Others in their class might be more willing to make some small economic concessions to the poor, but that isn't really a major factor to the overall economic system. What I mean is, yes, raising the minimum wage would help poor people somewhat, but it doesn't change the fact that we live under a system in which the rich exploit the poor for profit. I want an end to that exploitation altogether, not just institute some kind of essentially irreverent reform that doesn't fundamentally change anything.


Well, that's the gist of it.

What I get from it is that people stayed home because they could not see a clear difference between the parties.

This is why centrist, third-way policies are a disaster.

Let me say, this is from a highly intelligent, well educated millennial with a good, upper middle class income, who works at a company that is a household name to us all.
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Why one of my people refused to vote: [View all] grahamhgreen Nov 2014 OP
Ask the what not voting got them next year..... Historic NY Nov 2014 #1
And what did voting get you? Bandit Nov 2014 #7
At least we got to keep our congressman vs a teabagger. Historic NY Nov 2014 #13
Voting got millions of people health insurance. NCTraveler Nov 2014 #55
Self respect. NT mahatmakanejeeves Nov 2014 #77
stupid is as stupid does VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #2
This is not a stupid low info person. They have been alienated by third way Dems. grahamhgreen Nov 2014 #10
Uh no.... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #21
How do we get this person back to the polls? He voted for Obama. grahamhgreen Nov 2014 #23
You tell him he gets what he didn't vote against.... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #24
That won't do it. How bout we fight for some real change. Kill the Keystone XL, and the TPP? grahamhgreen Nov 2014 #25
I don't give a fuck....you tell him the truth.... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #26
Well, that's why we're losing. You don't give a fuck about what brings our team to the polls. grahamhgreen Nov 2014 #27
fuck no it aint.... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #28
You really don't get it? "Centrism" (selling out) is losing votes for us. Understand? grahamhgreen Nov 2014 #37
Oh yes....I DO get it....I got it all along....I am the realist...I KNEW the American public was VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #39
Obama asked us to push him. Saying no to the TPP, or Keystone, is easy. No? Well, grahamhgreen Nov 2014 #67
There ya go-- pick out a few things you don't like... TreasonousBastard Nov 2014 #69
Why would ANYONE want to vote for the neo-con agenda you just defended in your post? grahamhgreen Nov 2014 #73
You just don't understand grahamh LondonReign2 Nov 2014 #87
Apparently! We can also play the fear card, they believe foolishly. grahamhgreen Nov 2014 #88
While I could nit pick some of the things in the op. NCTraveler Nov 2014 #56
Thanks! I'm sure that they do, which I why I try so hard to convince them of their errors:) grahamhgreen Nov 2014 #68
I feel that even if his points are valid, they are hopelessly naive. Xyzse Nov 2014 #3
"Them" is obviously educated and insightful ... Whiskeytide Nov 2014 #4
I agree. The problem is that "they" did not vote. How can we change that? grahamhgreen Nov 2014 #22
I worked with a woman who expressed this same... Whiskeytide Nov 2014 #47
So, by not voting, your friend denied the election the quorum needed to be legitimate? gratuitous Nov 2014 #5
Obviously, not a millennial that's ever been hungry... cry baby Nov 2014 #6
Let me say, as a fellow educated millennial... Niko Nov 2014 #8
Welcome to DU wryter2000 Nov 2014 #54
"They pandered to the racist assholes and they lost" -- BINGO LondonReign2 Nov 2014 #85
Pathetic... Spazito Nov 2014 #9
OK marions ghost Nov 2014 #11
I've heard this argument from several well-educated Millennials... polichick Nov 2014 #12
Myself and many millennials feel the system simply needs to crash. Katashi_itto Nov 2014 #14
I just don't see how it will crash, at least not until there's nothing left to save... polichick Nov 2014 #15
it would be nice. But when have Americans done anything with foresight since the 60s? Katashi_itto Nov 2014 #16
In many ways the system has already collapsed... polichick Nov 2014 #18
And what comes next? That's the real question. arcane1 Nov 2014 #29
And if everything collapses, those who need change the most will... polichick Nov 2014 #34
No. It won't arise "magically" your looking at a lot of pain misery and death ahead. Katashi_itto Nov 2014 #41
Well, a "new system" won't be allowed to arise before that. Hence the "lone nuts," etc... villager Nov 2014 #53
I'm supposed to be impressed this person works at some big name JI7 Nov 2014 #17
How come the Republicans don't do stupid shit like this? treestar Nov 2014 #33
Not upper income. Upper middle class. They work for z living. grahamhgreen Nov 2014 #75
While, theoretically, boycotting an election as a form of protest might work ... surrealAmerican Nov 2014 #19
That is exactly IT! Thank you! Boycotting elections to make changes to our system will ONLY BlueCaliDem Nov 2014 #84
problem is, even if only the elite bothered to vote, that doesn't help his cause in the slightest 0rganism Nov 2014 #20
Good debate, but I don't see what not voting is going to accomplish. merrily Nov 2014 #30
Ick. I'm deleting this thread. The responses on this thread are incredibly sanctimonious and liberal_at_heart Nov 2014 #31
Then why should we read 20 paragraphs of what they want? treestar Nov 2014 #32
How will you govern when the other party is in power? Or do you consider their policies to your bene grahamhgreen Nov 2014 #36
At least I'll have some say treestar Nov 2014 #43
I agree, although my goal is to figure out how to get them to vote Dem again! grahamhgreen Nov 2014 #76
If it ain't perfect, it's not worth it. aquart Nov 2014 #35
Some of my fellow Gen-Xers felt the same way until GWB won the second time aikoaiko Nov 2014 #38
It seems easy enough to get them to the poles by offering say, grahamhgreen Nov 2014 #78
Polls, not poles. I think student loan problems have already sent too many to the poles aikoaiko Nov 2014 #91
Well! Chaque amour fi na né!!! grahamhgreen Nov 2014 #94
The plan is to make the elite "freak the heck out" so they'll stop exploiting the poor? Orangepeel Nov 2014 #40
It won't work. But how do we get these voters back? grahamhgreen Nov 2014 #79
The corporate elite that your millennial so despises would be delighted at this exchange. Jim Lane Nov 2014 #42
You used the terms "my people" and "my millennials" in your post. MineralMan Nov 2014 #44
That struck me as well tkmorris Nov 2014 #45
Well, I hope we get an answer from the OP. MineralMan Nov 2014 #46
It's not a dorm room, its a workplace. Should be easy for Dems to give these people a reason to vote grahamhgreen Nov 2014 #60
Co-workers. grahamhgreen Nov 2014 #59
What industry? It sounds like a non Union workplace. Bluenorthwest Nov 2014 #62
Cannot disclose. grahamhgreen Nov 2014 #64
Are any of your millennials not white, straight men from affluent backgrounds? Bluenorthwest Nov 2014 #48
It's not about them. It's about us not providing them something worth voting for. grahamhgreen Nov 2014 #58
Tell it to the Marines. I'm a gay person. We got organized in order to take something that Bluenorthwest Nov 2014 #61
Doesn't matter. We need to give him something to vote for. grahamhgreen Nov 2014 #66
If you tell the parties why you're not voting, it's rebellion. Orsino Nov 2014 #49
Big lofty ideas of an arm-chair intellectual BarackTheVote Nov 2014 #50
How do we get them to vote? I used to get them to donate!!! grahamhgreen Nov 2014 #80
Go on the attack BarackTheVote Nov 2014 #93
Wow, he's a bit cynical. louis-t Nov 2014 #51
But enough gloom and doom. BarackTheVote Nov 2014 #52
No political fundraising on Kickstarter, which is for creative projects.... Bluenorthwest Nov 2014 #63
"get in the face of their opponent and call them out on their lies and hypocrisy." That's it. grahamhgreen Nov 2014 #65
The kid may be right... whatchamacallit Nov 2014 #57
Basically "Them" is passing on excuses for refusing... TreasonousBastard Nov 2014 #70
Doesn't matter. With them, we won in 2008. When we alienate them, we lose. grahamhgreen Nov 2014 #71
Well-educated upper class millenials can afford to not vote I guess. DemocraticWing Nov 2014 #72
Upper middle class. It's not his problem. It's ours. When we give them grahamhgreen Nov 2014 #74
He (or she) makes a lot of sense. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Nov 2014 #81
All of these are good solutions:). Especially referendums! grahamhgreen Nov 2014 #82
Q: If a tree falls in the forest while nobody is there frazzled Nov 2014 #83
+1000 BklnDem75 Nov 2014 #92
I think he makes OUTSTANDING arguments. Le Taz Hot Nov 2014 #86
I know. That's why I didn't post it before the elections;) grahamhgreen Nov 2014 #89
cool story! snooper2 Nov 2014 #90
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