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Rilgin

(795 posts)
78. Or in other words ...
Wed Nov 5, 2014, 07:25 PM
Nov 2014

Your post can be boiled down to the following:

The way for liberals/progressives/leftists and centrists/Third Way Democrats to coexist is for leftists to ignore their beliefs. Centrists do not have to do anything. They do not have to actually fight for good solutions. However, liberals have to accept all the policies put forth by centrist candidates currently even if the policy is flawed or is a bad compromise. In fact, inherently you want liberals to repress their beliefs and express as a positive that the third way politicians were correct in enacting, compromising or not fighting for solutions favored by the left even though polls consistently show that the electorate is further left than the political class and favors left based policies and solutions.

Your point is that Liberals should accept or express centrist policies as victories. No matter if liberals see a Third Way policy or law as going in the wrong direction, they must express the opposite and trumpet all such policies as victories using whatever benefits they can find in the compromised law. In cases where compromise leads to imperfect or partial solutions, they must trumpet such laws as victories regardless of their belief over whether we reach solutions by political confrontation or incrementaism.

There could be a real debate on which way is better. I believe this is one primary intellectual difference between leftist and centrist democrats. Your request that all actions of our incumbents be trumpeted as victories does not admit that maybe you are wrong. Perhaps, the answer is to make it clear to the centrist politicians that band-aid solutions are not acceptable if they foreclose or delay or put long term impediments on actually solving a problem. That you will not just lose "republican moderates" but also the left will not support you and you will lose your seat no matter how much corporate money you try to raise. Third Way People want to say "dont let the perfect be the enemy of the good". I might respond by saying that maybe it is "silence that is the enemy of the good" or "acceptance of the bad or imperfect to chalk up a victory that is the enemy of the good." These seem to be what you are recommending, silence and acceptance of what some of us view as bad policy and direction.

Looking backward to an earlier post, I would ask you to consider if maybe the ACA is not a long term victory because it institutionalizes health insurance companies and passage of the ACA actually moves us in the wrong direction. This is my belief but I can acknowledge that I might be wrong. Your solution is to claim it as a victory and do not require the centrist to acknowledge any doubts that it might not be a victory but might actually be a defeat of a long term solution. Again, it is my belief, that ultimately it is because it is not a system that is simple and just benefits everyone. Its benefits are that the poor and sick now get health care. A lot of america is unchanged, the same or marginally worse. This has allowed openings for republican political attacks. I think it would have been better politically if one day a medicare card just showed up in the mail which gave the person government insurance. It would be universal and a good system for everyone while still giving the poor and sick health care. Instead, we are still in a battle. Despite claims of bending the curve, our system is still hugely expensive. As we are aware, if the republicans manage to get in power they might repeal the ACA anyhow and democrats will end up with a huge political defeat. Craven politicians will not bring up solutions for years after.

Using one of your prior analogies, instead of throwing a blanket over the baby and bringing her to the curb (not the ambulance), in passing the ACA, we simply moved the baby deeper into the house to the bathtub and put water over her. For the moment,the baby is no longer on fire but is sure to burn in the long term.

Personally, I believe the ACA, the security state, the new financial regulations (ignoring lessons learned from the 1930s on bank regulation) and some other current laws and policies which you would have us claim as victories all move us in the wrong direction. In many of these cases, we are simply trying to preserve a bad and decaying system. It is like what happens if the foundation of your house is bad, you can replace it or try to patch it. Patching it is less effort but does not really fix the problem. If you patch it, it will hold for a little longer and have some benefits but since you wasted your political money, you will not get to the root problems nor will you be able to fix it when the patch fails. If you patch it and everyone knows in their hearts it was not a real solution, you lose elections.

That is ultimately the problem with your post, you want leftists to stop being leftists. You want us to convince the electorate that centrist policies help them even though we do not believe the policies help. Further, I believe in their hearts most of the electorate does not believe in centrist compromises and i believe that a majority of the mushy middle would welcome a populist from the left. I think I would much prefer a direct fight for the heart and soul of first the democratic party and second the american people with a real clear choice between the two parties rather than intentionally blurring the lines to try to woo the electorate by hiding policy warts and bad compromises and trumpeting marginal victories as great victories.



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K & R. Love these points: FSogol Nov 2014 #1
Wow, what a concept ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2014 #4
I agree with your OP, 1SBM brer cat Nov 2014 #8
exactly, good post. n/t. okieinpain Nov 2014 #2
The message is 365 days a year. It sets the mood and discourages people. freshwest Nov 2014 #3
Hear, hear!!! Beacool Nov 2014 #5
This Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Nov 2014 #46
How was the single malt? dumbcat Nov 2014 #6
The one pour I had was very satisfying ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2014 #7
Funny how we get protected from ourselves, innit? riqster Nov 2014 #28
That's awesome! JustAnotherGen Nov 2014 #51
You are so correct it hurts. And we will never learn judging from the posts here. It's even more kelliekat44 Nov 2014 #9
Soul searching is unnecessary when you are convinced you are right! eom. 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2014 #10
Or maybe stop doing the same thing that was a losing strategy this time around BrotherIvan Nov 2014 #11
Or, maybe ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2014 #13
Exactly BrotherIvan Nov 2014 #18
The halfpublican 'Centrist' experiment has failed AgingAmerican Nov 2014 #15
What 40 years was that? eom 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2014 #21
1952 - 1994 AgingAmerican Nov 2014 #29
More romanticism of the past ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2014 #48
lol AgingAmerican Nov 2014 #66
You are right, but almost everyone who made that shift SheilaT Nov 2014 #80
that is exactly the messaging that harmed to turnout...thanks Sheepshank Nov 2014 #24
Halfpublicanism has ruined the Democratic party AgingAmerican Nov 2014 #30
I think you are wrong to imagine that the far left is Sheepshank Nov 2014 #34
Nobody said 'far left' AgingAmerican Nov 2014 #35
you continue to demoralize...is that your job? Sheepshank Nov 2014 #36
When the truth is demoralizing AgingAmerican Nov 2014 #39
Segments of the "Democratic Party" ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2014 #55
As I read the hippie punching threads this morning BrotherIvan Nov 2014 #25
The halfpublican centrists believe AgingAmerican Nov 2014 #32
Agree, let's hope people wake up flamingdem Nov 2014 #12
Sadly ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2014 #16
Constructive criticism flamingdem Nov 2014 #20
You are right 1SBM treestar Nov 2014 #14
"Democrats, and the Left" LondonReign2 Nov 2014 #17
Clearly ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2014 #23
KnR Hekate Nov 2014 #19
One other thing the Dem leadership must learn to do better Sheepshank Nov 2014 #22
I disagree ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2014 #27
perhaps and in part only.... Sheepshank Nov 2014 #33
You are 100% correct... Moostache Nov 2014 #49
Conversely, it is good for the BBQ Joint and Korean Restaurant not to drive away loyal customers villager Nov 2014 #26
So, are you saying that liberals/progressives ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2014 #31
I'll fix that analogy for him. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Nov 2014 #45
But if they're wondering why the "brand" of the restaurants isn't more steadily popular... villager Nov 2014 #47
Thanks ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2014 #57
So isn't the real problem the fact that Erich Bloodaxe BSN Nov 2014 #81
Only if the ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2014 #83
I can't imagine ordering the deaniac21 Nov 2014 #43
I agree somebody-else Nov 2014 #37
Well said. I would say that involvement in the primaries is crucial. riqster Nov 2014 #38
Fundraising E-mails and online peitions don't DO anything. The majority of people don't have any $$$ Erose999 Nov 2014 #40
When someone does something bad... Erich Bloodaxe BSN Nov 2014 #41
When someone runs into a burning building .. 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2014 #62
Right On Point. MADem Nov 2014 #42
Pot, meet kettle Colorado Liberal Nov 2014 #59
All of the negativity I saw on this website didn't come from the MADem Nov 2014 #61
If you didn't see negativity coming from the centrists Colorado Liberal Nov 2014 #67
Well, you assume wrong. MADem Nov 2014 #68
For someone who takes issues with name calling (of their candidates) Colorado Liberal Nov 2014 #71
Hey, I'd love it if "liberal MA" would pass a rocky mountain high law. MADem Nov 2014 #72
"aggrieved liberal living amongst the conservative evildoers"? Colorado Liberal Nov 2014 #76
WE agree completely on your two take-aways. MADem Nov 2014 #77
In terms of winning elections ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2014 #69
"Liberal/Progressives =/= Democrats ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2014 #65
And guess what Colorado Liberal Nov 2014 #70
Agreed ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2014 #73
Or in other words ... Rilgin Nov 2014 #78
Yes, exactly that ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2014 #79
Somewhat consistent Rilgin Nov 2014 #82
Excellent points gordianot Nov 2014 #44
The message about ACA was particularly important--it's the one piece of legislation Wella Nov 2014 #50
"I am the captain of my ship. I am the master of my soul." adirondacker Nov 2014 #52
Actually, Liberals need to stop acting like every election is about America loving them. Spitfire of ATJ Nov 2014 #53
I am done gotv for republicans with a d on their name tag. Ed Suspicious Nov 2014 #54
Face Facts People Ccarmona Nov 2014 #56
I agree with you about 80% beerandjesus Nov 2014 #58
80% is a great start ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2014 #75
I don't even know where to go after this mess... SoapBox Nov 2014 #60
So get out there and elect more dems whatchamacallit Nov 2014 #63
Think about the criticism and the criticism of the criticism JonLP24 Nov 2014 #64
Outstanding post, my friend. Nicely put! K&R 11 Bravo Nov 2014 #74
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