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In reply to the discussion: Why one of my people refused to vote: [View all]Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)42. The corporate elite that your millennial so despises would be delighted at this exchange.
By the way, it's not all that surprising that the nonvoting millennial has a "good, upper middle class income" and is therefore presumably not on Medicaid. Medicaid was one of the issues I highlighted in a post elsewhere, answering this "no difference between the parties" argument. If I may quote myself:
By coincidence, I read (the Green Party booster's) email soon after reading this piece -- http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/10/30/1340367/-Think-the-Midterms-Don-t-Matter-Tell-That-to-157-000-Poor-Uninsured-People-in-Maine-and-nbsp-Wisco -- about the refusal of some states to accept the expansion of Medicaid that's available under Obamacare. In Maine and Wisconsin, a total of 157,000 people who could be eligible for Medicaid aren't getting it. If they lived in New York, they'd have health coverage. Living in states with Republican governors, they don't.
This isn't a strictly partisan thing. The map at http://medicaidexpansion.com/medicaid-expansion-state-decisions/ shows that some Republican governors, like Christie, have gone along with expansion, however grudgingly. In general, though, Medicaid has been expanded in states with Democratic leadership and has not been expanded in states with Republican leadership.
Well, what do I care, I don't live in Maine or Wisconsin, or in any of the other states that have gone that route. But there are millions of people who ARE affected. Some of them will die as a result.
I'm not speaking metaphorically. Some of them will literally die. Physicians for a National Health Program did a piece at http://www.pnhp.org/news/2014/january/more-than-7100-deaths-likely-from-states-rejection-of-medicaid-expansion-%C2%A0health-a reporting on research on the subject:
Thousands of people dying and hundreds of thousands of people suffering is either a preventable human catastrophe or "certain details separating the two major parties," depending on your perspective.
This isn't a strictly partisan thing. The map at http://medicaidexpansion.com/medicaid-expansion-state-decisions/ shows that some Republican governors, like Christie, have gone along with expansion, however grudgingly. In general, though, Medicaid has been expanded in states with Democratic leadership and has not been expanded in states with Republican leadership.
Well, what do I care, I don't live in Maine or Wisconsin, or in any of the other states that have gone that route. But there are millions of people who ARE affected. Some of them will die as a result.
I'm not speaking metaphorically. Some of them will literally die. Physicians for a National Health Program did a piece at http://www.pnhp.org/news/2014/january/more-than-7100-deaths-likely-from-states-rejection-of-medicaid-expansion-%C2%A0health-a reporting on research on the subject:
The decision by 25 states to reject the expansion of Medicaid coverage under the Affordable Care Act will result in between 7,115 and 17,104 more deaths than had all states opted in, according to researchers at Harvard Medical School and the City University of New York.
. . . .
In addition to the thousands of excess deaths associated with that lack of coverage, the rejection of the Medicaid expansion will have the following likely impacts:
* 712,037 more persons diagnosed with depression
* 240,700 more persons suffering catastrophic medical expenses
* 422,533 fewer diabetics receiving medication
* 195,492 fewer women receiving mammograms and
* 443,677 fewer women receiving pap smears
Thousands of people dying and hundreds of thousands of people suffering is either a preventable human catastrophe or "certain details separating the two major parties," depending on your perspective.
So, while I agree with you that centrist, third-way policies are a disaster, there is already enough evidence, even with the Democrats being far too conservative, that there are major differences between the parties. You call your friend intelligent, but it's hard for me to find anything in those posts except willful blindness.
I particularly note this sentence: "Instead of voting, we need to be figuring out how to remove that class from power, and you can't do that while participating in their fictional elections." Uh, because if you walk down to the local school and cast a vote, that disempowers you from the arduous plotting of revolution? Not that I think your friend is actually doing anything toward removing that class from power anyway -- but to the extent s/he is, one ought to be able to think about how to upend the system while walking to the polls and waiting on line. This whole thing is just a copout.
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This is not a stupid low info person. They have been alienated by third way Dems.
grahamhgreen
Nov 2014
#10
That won't do it. How bout we fight for some real change. Kill the Keystone XL, and the TPP?
grahamhgreen
Nov 2014
#25
Well, that's why we're losing. You don't give a fuck about what brings our team to the polls.
grahamhgreen
Nov 2014
#27
You really don't get it? "Centrism" (selling out) is losing votes for us. Understand?
grahamhgreen
Nov 2014
#37
Oh yes....I DO get it....I got it all along....I am the realist...I KNEW the American public was
VanillaRhapsody
Nov 2014
#39
Obama asked us to push him. Saying no to the TPP, or Keystone, is easy. No? Well,
grahamhgreen
Nov 2014
#67
Why would ANYONE want to vote for the neo-con agenda you just defended in your post?
grahamhgreen
Nov 2014
#73
Thanks! I'm sure that they do, which I why I try so hard to convince them of their errors:)
grahamhgreen
Nov 2014
#68
So, by not voting, your friend denied the election the quorum needed to be legitimate?
gratuitous
Nov 2014
#5
I just don't see how it will crash, at least not until there's nothing left to save...
polichick
Nov 2014
#15
it would be nice. But when have Americans done anything with foresight since the 60s?
Katashi_itto
Nov 2014
#16
No. It won't arise "magically" your looking at a lot of pain misery and death ahead.
Katashi_itto
Nov 2014
#41
Well, a "new system" won't be allowed to arise before that. Hence the "lone nuts," etc...
villager
Nov 2014
#53
While, theoretically, boycotting an election as a form of protest might work ...
surrealAmerican
Nov 2014
#19
That is exactly IT! Thank you! Boycotting elections to make changes to our system will ONLY
BlueCaliDem
Nov 2014
#84
problem is, even if only the elite bothered to vote, that doesn't help his cause in the slightest
0rganism
Nov 2014
#20
Ick. I'm deleting this thread. The responses on this thread are incredibly sanctimonious and
liberal_at_heart
Nov 2014
#31
How will you govern when the other party is in power? Or do you consider their policies to your bene
grahamhgreen
Nov 2014
#36
I agree, although my goal is to figure out how to get them to vote Dem again!
grahamhgreen
Nov 2014
#76
Polls, not poles. I think student loan problems have already sent too many to the poles
aikoaiko
Nov 2014
#91
The plan is to make the elite "freak the heck out" so they'll stop exploiting the poor?
Orangepeel
Nov 2014
#40
The corporate elite that your millennial so despises would be delighted at this exchange.
Jim Lane
Nov 2014
#42
It's not a dorm room, its a workplace. Should be easy for Dems to give these people a reason to vote
grahamhgreen
Nov 2014
#60
Are any of your millennials not white, straight men from affluent backgrounds?
Bluenorthwest
Nov 2014
#48
It's not about them. It's about us not providing them something worth voting for.
grahamhgreen
Nov 2014
#58
Tell it to the Marines. I'm a gay person. We got organized in order to take something that
Bluenorthwest
Nov 2014
#61
No political fundraising on Kickstarter, which is for creative projects....
Bluenorthwest
Nov 2014
#63
"get in the face of their opponent and call them out on their lies and hypocrisy." That's it.
grahamhgreen
Nov 2014
#65
Doesn't matter. With them, we won in 2008. When we alienate them, we lose.
grahamhgreen
Nov 2014
#71